Coach Zorn and religion in the locker room.

WADR, you start by saying you disagree but your last line is actually what I'm saying. They have faith that the written accounts happened. Faith is not fact. They believe it because that stuff hasn't been proven. If it was proven, no one would have faith in it anymore because it would be fact.

Once a faith has proven to be true, it is no longer a faith, it is now a fact. You don't have faith in facts, you know them to be true.

Say we win the Super Bowl this year. Up until we actually win, we have faith we'll win but its not a fact we will win. If we did win, then no one has faith we'll win SB 2015 any longer, because we actually won it.

 

North Dallas Forty was a great movie too.
Nick Nolte as Phil Elliott
Mac Davis as Seth Maxwell
John Matuszak
Bo Svenson
G.D. Spradlin

Matuszak's rant toward the end was awesome.

[video=youtube;I6mpHW3SMcc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6mpHW3SMcc[/video]

 

Religion poisons everything. If someone wants to believe in a higher power, then have at it, but it does not require adhering to some ancient bronze age texts written by people so ignorant they didn't even know where the sun went at night.

 

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel." - Thomas Paine, Age of Reason

 

Can I just take a moment to thank you for being open and understanding of all of our beliefs. You have always listened with an open mind and an open heart and that is very much appreciated.

 

I am expressing my opinion. No one is required to agree with me.

 

I can appreciate that explanation OP. Faith, or rather true faith is among the strongest things humans can have. For example Stonewall Jackson had such a profound faith in God , he had no fear when he went into battle, hence his nickname. He believed so fully that the Lord would take him when he so chose, therefor if it was not his time, he had nothing to fear of being killed in battle.

While I myself am not quite certain of my beliefs, I can respect that degree of faith.

I do wonder why, and this may seem ridiculous, but why is believing in the Super Natural or UFOs looked down upon by many when the reality is, we have more evidence of some kind that they exist, then we have of a higher power such as God.

 

If you want the tattoo get it. You may want to put it somewhere that can easily be covered for work though. Some future employers may discriminate against you because it.

 

Back on the subject of football, because I believe football is grounded in emotion ... a good coach would make available various ways to practice the players faith. Its part of getting to know each and every player. While Im not a Christian I still find peace listening to a sermon where I can identify with the lesson. I was moved to tears when the Pope visited, because I was awestruck by the sheer gentleness of this man. He spoke from a heart that anyone could listen to. It inspired me...so I would imagine faith in the locker room would inspire many players of various faiths.

 

This just in, Jim Zorn was a bad football coach.

 

Well said.

In addition, if you're using your religion to divide, you might not want to bring it to your job where your success depends on bringing a group of people together.

 

Jackson did not get the nickname because of his religious beliefs. He got at the First Bull Run. As the Confederate lines began to crumble under heavy Union assault, Jackson's brigade provided crucial reinforcements on Henry House Hill, demonstrating the discipline he instilled in his men. Brig. Gen. Barnard Elliott Bee, Jr. exhorted his own troops to re-form by shouting, "There is Jackson standing like a stone wall. Let us determine to die here, and we will conquer. Rally behind the Virginians!"

Jackson was the best general and strategist the South had. Lee knew it too. After Jackson's death, Lee never won another major battle.

I see more reason, a lot more reason, to believe in the supernatural and/or UFOs/aliens than I do in a sky daddy.

 

So many so called Christians IMO are guilty of this. They pervert the entire faith and help drive people away. There appear to me to be two different kinds of Jesus. You have the biblical Jesus as described in the four gospels, then you have Republican Jesus, formed from a distorted view of what Christ stood for, and used to further their own aims and preconceived prejudices.

 

Paine worded things more strongly, but Jefferson held many of the same beliefs himself. Also John Adams and Madison.

 

Obviously, you understand that people pervert EVERY faith and religion. That's why I don't understand why you came into this thread kicking down the door and blasting a faith in total, instead of the specific chuckleheads like Zorn.

The Christian faith has objectionable parts in it, but mostly those aren't what is preached. I think most people of that faith know those parts are objectionable and tend to ignore them. The problem comes in when specific people pervert that religion to suit their own agendas whether those be monetary/hate/fear/etc.

Ohio is a great guy. He goes out of his way to not offend people when talking about faith and the faithless. He's open to honest respectful dialogue. He's not alone. That's why I'm forever trying to get the other side to not choose the nuclear option by blasting these people's faith(s). I mean its one thing when in a respectful manner you bring up something like homosexuality being an abomination but then so is a woman wearing a man's shirt and how that doesn't make sense. But its another thing entirely to just start blasting the religion.

Part of your anger, my anger and many people of no faith's anger is the militant gusto with which we've been judged or had beliefs shoved down our throat by the religious. We're not gonna change that by being as equally militant in shoving our beliefs/opinions down their throat. When you have someone like Ohio who is willing to have the kind of discussion we all want, then why start it off rude or angry....how is that going to change their approach to us? Be more Martin Luther King and less Martin Luther.

That's why I always say go after the person whose behavior is horrible but respect the faith.

 

I have always objected to those who claim exclusive, absolute moral superiority because they are members of one church group or another.
They do a hard sell of the idea that I can be morally superior, too, if only I accept an indivisible package of dogmas, some of which I disagree with.
I just don't see how that constitutes morality, let alone superior morality.
By the same token, I have to admire their good works.
So the solution I have come up with is to support and give credit to the good works while ignoring the parts of the package I disagree with.
Cafeteria approach, I guess.

 

What Zorn is apparently doing doesn't seem very christian (not that I'm one either...just saying).

 

Religion doesn't "poison" everything, people do. Greedy, self serving people. It's hard to read some of this honestly.

 

If all Christians were the same as Ohiophinphan, and people like Jimmy Carter, the religion as a whole would be infinitely better, it would not drive people away, turn them sour toward it, etc. The bad apples, of which there are many, give the entire religion a black eye, IMO. That may not be fair, but I think it effects many people's attitudes toward it.

 

Exactly, which is why it makes sense to blast those people and not Christianity, which was my point.

 

Exactly...there he stood like a Stone Wall..why do you think he was able to he so stoic in battle?

His profound belief in the Lord.

"My religious beliefs teach me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time of my death. I do not concern myself with that, but to be always ready whenever it may overtake me. That is the way all men should live, and all men would be equally brave."

 

It is not the fault of religious people that some people pervert religion.

 

When Gen, Bee uttered his famous quote, he was not thinking of Jackson's religion. At least there is no indication he was.

 

Nooo....ok..get what you are saying now. The nickname was because he showed such a lack of fear while in battle...he was as solid as a stonewall. You are correct. My point was it was his faith that gave him the strength to be that brave.

 

Question. Not a trick question. Just curious.
Do you mean that the General had such strong faith in the promise of eternal life that the possibility of the end of his life in this world was not as big a deal to him as it would have been to a person with less faith?

 

IMO religion itself is the problem. Whenever you have a group of people who believe, "if you think my way you go to heaven, but if you don't you go to hell", the people don't have to pervert anything. The discrimination and superiority is built in. The person who can be kind and nonjudgmental is overcoming that thinking. They're behaving that way in spite of religion rather than b/c of it.

 

But Jesus did not say or teach that. He taught the opposite: kind and nonjudgmental, as you said. People with built in discrimination and superiority pervert the teachings they profess to follow.

 

I agree that Jesus was most likely an incredibly tolerant and nonjudgmental person, but that's not the religion that sprung up in his name.

 

That's probably because of power trips. Fortunately, you can still read the direct quotes and ignore or discard the other stuff.