Charles Darwin on the Ouija channel
6 replies
RD: So you never regretted coming up with the Theory of Evolution?
Darwin: Of course not, and my daughter on February 23, 1922 wrote to "The Christian" journal my repentance was an urban legend. You guys misunderstood me anyway. My "theory" was never about the origin of life ("abiogenesis") but about how successive generations of organisms change over time ("evolution").
RD: But you added a plausible mechanism, "Natural Selection."
Darwin: Notice the word "plausible." Just because some birds (i.e. finches) had long curved beaks so they could get fat eating tiny bugs on the Galapagos Islands doesn’t prove that life began in a "primordial soup."
RD: That was only variety, what about similarity? If you look at an x-ray of the upper limb of a crocodile, a bird and a human, they all have five digits for "fingers" and two bones in the forearm. Similarities are evidence that we have all descended from some common ancestor.
Darwin: Sure, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, it was a good design…worthy of being duplicated.
Look Richard, after 150 years I expected you guys to come up with something better than if a bird was born with the wrong beak he uses it to fight because a short stout beak is useless to get insects out of crevasses in the rocks.
RD: Well we might have if Michael Behe hadn’t written Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution based on your definition of "irreducibly complex."
Darwin: So what? Only the religious dummies go to Christian bookstores. Bush Jr., Quayle and the Creationists prove Professor Lynn’s research that less than 7% of university academics believe in God.
RD: Normally, that would be so, but Behe makes a credible, sophisticated case for Creationism without using the Bible so his book is at Borders, Barnes & Noble. Thank "god" for Judge John E. Jones III, who was nominated by President George W. Bush, who ruled Intelligent Design is not science but essentially religious in nature and cited Behe's testimony in Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District.
Michael Behe
But I got to tell you it’s hard to attack a reputable scientist from a reputable institution with a sophisticated argument even with a court case from a biased judge. And wait till you see his photo.
Darwin: So what’s the problem?
RD: Michael Behe represented himself as a scientist persuaded by the evidence, not a Creationist with an evangelical agenda like John Sanford with a toothy smile bragging about being saved:
Darwin: What’s Behe saying?
RD: He maintains that biological systems are irreducibly complex and possess incredibly complicated structures that can be reduced to very basic states.
Darwin: Didn’t I say that?
RD: Yes but he proved that if an everyday non-biological irreducible complex mousetrap could not have developed in stages then a species which originally possessed no eyes will never come to possess perfect ones due to a small chance development because it affords an advantage due to natural selection. Behe says, "Such a system without an Engine of Change could not have evolved slowly, piece by piece." Behe and his buddies found out modern genetics, not random radioactive mutation is the engine of change.
John Sanford
Darwin: Well, random mutations are random. Haven’t we proven a mutated gene can cause cancer, organ failure and death? New species result from trillions of trillions of random tiny "beneficial" random mutations. Did I mention they are random and life probably came about through… you guessed it, a series of … random mutations?
This is another favorite deductive method of the evolutionary theorist. The "improbability drive," in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to support it, and then continually speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world). There is a principle called "Occam's Razor" which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation, Intelligent Design, is most likely to be correct. Evolutionists hate Occam's Razor (Thanks Gerard Holmgren for this insight).
RD: Yes, Charles we get it. But Michael Denton wrote Evolution a Theory in Crisis and points out "The tiniest bacterial cells are irreducibly complex, and are actually a microminiaturized factory containing thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery made up of a hundred thousand million atoms far more complicated than any machine made by man and absolutely without parallel in the non-living world."
A new generation of bacteria typically grows in 20 minutes to a few hours and although there is much variation in bacteria and many mutations they never turn into anything new. They always remain bacteria.
Forget human vision formed by Natural Selection, molecular biologists cited Behe’s research and wrote Michael Behe and Darwin's Black Box, which demonstrated that the cell could not have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/singer-r1.1.1.html
I thought about placing this in the Science forum, however it is not really science per se, it is a zorchy disputation on LewRockwell.com of some of the basis of Evolutionary Theory.
Careful at the top of the page, more Conservative Christians would probably not enjoy the off color joke monolouge.
I find this "argument" old and tired! For me it is a "so what".
I admit this one is kinda funny but the whole "evolution vs creation" argument is, for me, counter productive to both faith and science.
OHIOPHINPHAN
Witness to the first ever practice of the Miami Dolphins, 1966.
One of the mistakes people made from Darwin's work is that they took Survival of the Fittest to be a term that meant the survival of the most powerful. That strength is the way to survive. It is much more closer to reality that Survival of the Fittest means, Survival of the most clever.
Holland is a huge upgrade over McCain
I want to be alive, I am alive! Alive, I tell you! Mother, I love you, those are no longer just words. I want to hold you, I want to run in a stream, I want to taste ice cream but not just put it in my mouth and let it slide down my throat but really eat it. - Robot Morty
"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:
One of the mistakes people made from Darwin's work is that they took Survival of the Fittest to be a term that meant the survival of the most powerful. That strength is the way to survive. It is much more closer to reality that Survival of the Fittest means, Survival of the most clever.
I don't think it is even that. It is survival of the species which best "fits" the enviormental niche in which it and other organisms live.
The God of Genesis is the one who brought order from Chaos. Into that order He planted a complex web of species and situations into which those organisms live. Darwin was the first to truly note the complex interelationship of those webs and documented it. As I said above, looking to find discrepancies is easy and ultimately not to the benefit of either science or faith, in my opinion.
I am a person of faith who has felt a call to serve God, a call which the Church has seen fit to affirm. I am also a person with a discerning and questioning mind who has noted the diversity of species and how they adapt to specific enviorments. For me the two mesh nicely without the need of argument.
OHIOPHINPHAN
Witness to the first ever practice of the Miami Dolphins, 1966.
"Ohiophinphan wrote:
I don't think it is even that. It is survival of the species which best "fits" the enviormental niche in which it and other organisms live.
The God of Genesis is the one who brought order from Chaos. Into that order He planted a complex web of species and situations into which those organisms live. Darwin was the first to truly note the complex interelationship of those webs and documented it. As I said above, looking to find discrepancies is easy and ultimately not to the benefit of either science or faith, in my opinion.
I am a person of faith who has felt a call to serve God, a call which the Church has seen fit to affirm. I am also a person with a discerning and questioning mind who has noted the diversity of species and how they adapt to specific enviorments. For me the two mesh nicely without the need of argument.
For me, the problem comes in after the science and faith.
So often I see people who believe in ID/Creationism, practice "darwinism" in their day to day life. Things like chastising the poor or simply writing them off as lazy, for example is Social Darwinism. I sort of wish people would just accept the science of how we got the point we are at, then let their compassionate/faith side take over. I feel the world would be a better place.
"Ohiophinphan wrote:
I don't think it is even that. It is survival of the species which best "fits" the enviormental niche in which it and other organisms live.
.
I do not see a difference between what you said and being most clever. If species is clever they "fit" in their enviornmental niches.
Holland is a huge upgrade over McCain
I want to be alive, I am alive! Alive, I tell you! Mother, I love you, those are no longer just words. I want to hold you, I want to run in a stream, I want to taste ice cream but not just put it in my mouth and let it slide down my throat but really eat it. - Robot Morty
"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:
I do not see a difference between what you said and being most clever. If species is clever they "fit" in their enviornmental niches.
To me there is a difference but if there isn't for you, OK.
My o my isn't English an inprecisie language!? :wink2:
OHIOPHINPHAN
Witness to the first ever practice of the Miami Dolphins, 1966.