Reread my post I didn't say you, I said the people on the otherside of the debates that you brought up out of the blue to use as strawman arguments. They have nothing to do with the conversation and I took exception to the "people who idolized Beck but have nothing but disdain for Chad" comment, it was a total mischaracterization of our position, but something that gets dredged up time and time again. Wanting to see this team get the most out of its players is not a case of idol worship, it's wanting to see the team and it's players succeed. Pointing out real limitations of a player isn't disdain, it's a legit criticism. Then again, lets not overlook this... Which is pointless in the context of this thread. So because you were right on a few points, that somehow gives your side of the argument on Chad some credibility? I'm not following the rational in even bringing those other conversations up. I could do the same thing, I was right when I said that Green was susceptible to sustaining another concussion, I said that Ronnie wasn't a bust, that Ginn wasn't a bust, that Taylor would be traded, that Cam would find another job in the NFL when so many folks said noone would touch him. I said McCown would be released, I said we wouldn't draft Ryan, that we wouldn't touch Chad Johnson, Haynesworth, Jones, etc.......what does any of that have to do with this conversation? You mischaracterized the position of the people who said "Chad limits our offense because of his lack of arm strength" and the numbers that you posted were irrelevent to that conversation. They were team numbers that the runningbacks contributed to, so how are we supposed to gauge Chad's arm strength based on those numbers and a comparison over the past few years? The point is that Chad doesn't throw the ball deep because he doesn't feel comfortable making those throws, he doesn't attempt passes that he knows he can't make. Long plays, deep routes, plays that stretch the defense aren't being used because Chad can't make the passes, hence "Chad limits our offense". That's a huge chunk of our playbook that isn't being used and it has a negative impact on his teammates, Ronnie and Ginn are two great examples. Which completely ignores the point that people are making and the point that you are addressing in a roundabout way. Hence the strawman comment. I don't know anyone here who would say that Chad isn't the best QB that we've had since Marino, I also don't know of many people who would say that the QB's we had prior were any good. So the point that you were making in your first post was obvious and it did nothing to refute the knock on Pennington's arm that we've brought up time and time again. When the president of a company sits down to evaluate how a particular manager and his department are doing, he doesn't look at overall numbers that include the production and profit from all of his workers throughout the company, he looks at specific numbers from that manager and the job that he does. Instead of looking at team numbers, I posted very specific and the most relevent numbers that defended my position and proved that Chad doesn't attempt many passes over 20 yards, that he's very efficient because his field of play is much smaller than that of a Jay Cutler, and the fact that his "comfort zone" is within 20 yards and it has a negative impact on the running game because teams cheat against the run and don't have to worry about a ball going over their head for 6. Using general stats is misleading and faulty. If I was going to make a case that Will Allen either hurt or helped our secondary in the passing game last year, would I post stats for QB hurries and sacks, or would I post stats on passes defended, INT and catches allowed? Again, general team stats aren't specific enough and some stats are just meaningless to the debate because they don't address the original point. In the case of "Pennington limits our offense" team stats don't address his arm, the type of passes that he throws or how defenses play against us. Those limitations do impact our overall offensive numbers and the play of his teammates, that's something that you don't see when you just focus on overall numbers and comparisons from the past 10 years. Again, I appreciate the fact that you took the time to pull numbers and make the comparison, but the numbers have nothing to do with the argument that people have been making. As Marty pointed out, there are alot of numbers here within this thread that support the fact that Chad has a weak arm and it limits our offense. I'm open to seeing other numbers that will refute that claim if they exist, but they have to be specific and address the claim people are making, general team stats don't do that.