Yeah it would be nice to have a quality cornerback that doesn't need a ladder and an assisting safety to cover bigger receivers like Moss and Owens...
The ironical part of it is that by the time Sean Smith gets out of his diapers and is ready to go up against some of the best out there, Moss might not be Moss anymore, and Owens might be retired.
Call me crazy... but the DB that stood out to me the most in the "Evaluation Copy Video" was wearing ALL WHITE, not Sean Smith. Who is he? Darius Butler...Alphonso Smith....DJ Moore? He seemed to have the best cover/ball skills of the 3 IMO.
DB in white was CB Brice McCain from Utah. I hope we draft him in the 5th as a Nickel/return specialist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
McCain is 5'9, 189 with a 36.5 vertical and runs a 4.33 40. Major bonus in doubling as a rocket in the return game. In 07 he had 11 PBUs, 2TFL, 1 Sack. In 08 on the way to a National Title, he only had 5 PBU's... while Smith got all the attention. Was it possible that McCain just wasn't thrown his way at all and that's why Smith seemed to shine more? How many of the Sacks during th Sugar Bowl were coverage sacks. I seem to recall a lot.
That's probably the Utah Pro Day, isn't it? So the guy in white is probably Brice McCain, no? I don't know. But whoever they are, I think Sean Smith is definitely the most impressive of the three. There is no doubt that the guy in white is the fastest of the three players. But, that doesn't make him the best player there. The devil is in the detail. Smith and the guy in white both have adequate back pedal. Neither shows too much shoe. The third guy does show a bit too much shoe, and also has a lot more trouble with transition than Smith and the guy in white. The words that describe Smith in that video are "smooth", "big" and "reactive". The reason Smith is the better prospect than the guy in the white is because even though the guy in white has better speed, Smith has less wasted movement. When he plants and drives, he doesn't take extra steps. He doesn't round off, he cuts. Are the cuts as quick as the guy in white? Not yet. One day they might be, because of his balance and ability to cut without wasted motion, as he practices and trusts in his technique more, that first step off the cut should get a little more effective. The thing that stands out is despite this massive upper frame for a corner and his 6'3" size, this guy is very smooth and balanced in his steps and in his hips. He reacts seamlessly. Remember the height advantage! Smith has to be at least 3 inches bigger than the guy in white, with longer arms and the ability to get those hands on balls and do things to receivers that the guy in white will never do. Those advantages are usually balanced out by the big guy being so much slower and less reactive, but in actuality Smith has little wasted motion and this allows him to be competitive with the smaller, faster guy in terms of quickness. If you think of these cornerback drills as like receiver routes, Smith is a guy that runs them more crisply while the other two sort of round them off a bit. And even better, his reactions while moving are generally correct, balanced, and seamless. His eyes are very good. The drill toward the end where he mirrors a coach going one way or the other, transitions out, runs to the coach 20 yards away and takes his cue on which way to cut. It was smooth and flawless. This is why Boomer has loved the guy so much during the year and why I grew to love him too. This drill simulates press coverage. Look how smooth his reactions are to the coach and how easily he is able to stay with his every move on the line of scrimmage. The guy in white chops a thousand steps to stay with every little move on the line, and was late (and wrong) on a lot of his reactions. Smith isn't going to have the closing speed that you might like in a cornerback. He's capped out. He doesn't run a 4.3 and never will. But his planting is smooth, balanced and has no wasted steps. His cuts are sharp. His transition is smooth. He can change direction in back pedal without changing his body orientation. His reactions are faster and more accurate than a lot of prospects because he has good eyes and processes information quickly. As a former receiver, he obviously has ball skills. And, you can't beat that height and frame with a stick. If Miami were running the defense we use to run under Wannstedt, with press man coverage on the outsides and cover two safety help over top, this guy has the potential to be a pro bowler in that kind of defense. That's my opinion. I'm not sure how exactly he would play in our defense, in part because I'm not precisely sure which coverage we're going to play. There has been a suggestion on the part of a high school coach that specializes on defense and posts here at ThePhins, that we might switch to more Quarters or Cover Four. I'm not sure about that. It could happen.
Thanks for that great analysis CK. I agree... he does look extremely well for a big man. Will he be even better at FS when he can keep the play in front of hime? I liked McCain in the regard of being our future starting Nickel and helping to shut down the likes of Wes Welker. The thing that stood out to me about Brice was how quick he seemed on his break.... plus his ball skills seemed very good. Just how you say Sean can learn to cut quicker, I feel McCain can learn to not round off his runs. That's more than likely his previous coaches fault b/c he was getting the job done w/o having to be corrected. Don't confuse me as thinking McCain is better though.... just stating that Brice would be a possible sleeper in the 5th.
It's hard to predict which guy will improve what, because there's never any rule about which things can be improved and which can't, etc...but I see Sean Smith as having a big head start in terms of improving things because he already has the balance, flexibility and body awareness to cut with one foot and react to what he sees fluidly. McCain is clearly not the better cover player right NOW, because he can't do that. He will waste steps, and he'll get faked out, and you can see that especially in that press drill toward the end. There's a reason McCain is a lower round project pick that didn't get invited to teh Combine, while Sean Smith is the first round guy. McCain is fast and he plays fast, and that's good. He's a good prospect and I think coaches saw the same thing you saw in the workout which is why he quickly rose from being a UDFA prospect to being considered a nice late rounder. However, that said, I would have to very strongly disagree with you when you say he has the best cover ability in that video, and even more strongly disagree that he has the best ball skills. In fact, ball skills are a negative for me for McCain in that video. He kept dropping the balls, and his reactions to developments on the run are too hesitant and inaccurate. The thing that McCain showed me in that video is he has genuine speed, and good balance. But he needs to work on a lot of other things, including what's going on between his ears.
And, given what I've said...and now reading the comments on Omar's blog...when UteFinFan talks about McCain incorrectly guessing on an Austin Collie route and costing Utah the game in 2007...that does not surprise me at all. In fact, it fits right in with the problems that I just identified for him on that drill tape.
In all fairness that was in 07... and Austin is no slouch. Question is: did he learn from his mistake? McCain seems to play with a confidence to his game, and that has to come from somewhere, right? If he has pride in his play... as it seems to me, then it should only take him getting beaten badly a few times to insight him to change some poor habits. All I remember thinking during the Sugar Bowl is "man, Wilson has nowhere to throw the ball!" His WR's seemed blanketed the entire game. Was part of that McCain? As far as the ball skills, he seemed the best of the 3 as IMO Smith seemed like he was playing with oven mits... but still making the catch. Brice's reaction times seemed quicker to me and he showed a nicely timed jump. Yes, he dropped the first 3 passes, but how often is a CB going to have a QB catching him off guard from 10 feet away? LOL.
Has he learned from his mistakes? You tell me. As I said, when I watch the video, I see a guy that guesses and often guesses wrong. His frame of vision isn't good. One reason why Smith probably has such superior reactions is because of how smooth his running is. Watch his hips and they're level. It helps him keep his eyes level, which helps him observe more. You ever run around like a chicken with your head cut off and notice that you don't see much? Your eyes are bouncing around everywhere, it's no wonder. Because Smith has such smooth movement, his stable frame of sight allows him to see things correctly and react on them timely. I don't see confidence at all in McCain's movement. That's not the word I'd use. I see hesitation and jitters. He's got a hair trigger and I personally, and I understand if you disagree with me, but personally I would say that hair trigger has a lot more to do with lack of confidence, than confidence. Brice dropped the first two passes. And his reactions were such as to make his catches awkward looking.
Smith ran in a straight line... but McCain was quicker to the desination point even in his arched run. Smith can't run any straighter, but Brice can still work on that.
Well that's sort of the age-old debate, isn't it? How do you value a guy that shows the presence of mind to do everything right, but runs a 4.45 or 4.50, versus a guy that doesn't consistently show that kind of presence of mind, but runs a 4.35? Potential is tossed around in those debates. Yeah, the guy with the better speed will always have the potential to start doing things the right way. But, will he? It's sort of like someone gives you a choice of a $50 bill or a lottery ticket that could potentially win you $10,000. Which do you take? That said, even the physical potential can be argued because even though as you say Smith will PROBABLY (not definitely) not run in a straight line faster than he does today...Brice McCain will definitely also never be taller than he is today.
The first 2 passes Brice dropped were atypical passes that he will never see in the NFL.... Factor in the passes he will see, and his skills in that regard were the best IMO. As far as confidence.... his heavy hand clap before the drill is an indication of it. You can disagree if you like. I know that you know football... but I know people. LOL. That's my job. You're missing the point here. This was only a drill that I commented about and that Rafael agreed on. I don't and haven't said that I feel McCain is a better corner, so I'm not sure what the problem is? LOL. Of course Smith is the better of the 2 when you add the total package. I just feel Brice would make a nice addition later on to cover speedy slot WRs and possibly Welker.
In the NFL, the atypical, is typical. He could have caught those passes, he didn't. There's no reason to just excuse him for it. You said that Brice McCain has the best cover ability and ball skills in that video. I disagree. Strongly. So, I don't see what the fuss is about, either. I'm not debating something off topic or off point. I'm debating points you specifically raised.
I'm sorry... but the only thing we're talking about here is the Drills video, not game tape, and that's the only thing I responed to. Correct? W/O knowing who any of those 3 players are I felt that "All White" shined the most. Yes, he's quick and fast as hell (as you roughly mentioned)... but he also seemed to have great balance with his speed (I don't count 1 slip on a turn and go against him). His breaks were extremely fast, and his quickness out of his break was awesome. That's a separate skill from speed. He appeared the most athletic of the 3. He timed a jump well- that's unrelated to speed. I didn't really care that he had short choppy steps b/c he's in control of them and is still the fastest on the field even with them. He reaches top end in a flash which leads me to believe he can close in a hurry if ever beat. I didn't say anything else about his game transitioning to the best in the NFL, did I?
Let me know when it's no longer against the rules to disagree with you. Yeesh. God invented the Draft so that football fans could find ways to disagree with each other year round. Don't take it so personally.
CK... I said that from what I saw "He seemed to have the best cover/ball skills". There's no way you can say atypical is typical in the nfl when it comes to a DB trying to catch a 10 foot pass while running north-south directly at the QB. That does not happen.... and for the single time that a DB might ever see that in his career, I don't feel it factors in on ball skills. For the that passes that seemed likely to experience day in and day out, he had the best ball skills.
You can disagree all you want.... but you can't disagree with what my eyes saw and say that your eyes are right and mine are wrong. J/K After all... I posted first.
CK... how about we both agree that Smith is the much better prospect for obvious reasons and that McCain flashes nothing more than a very intrigueing prospect with a potentially high upside if his setbacks are correctable/coachable?
I can agree with that. But one thing about upside is...it's very hazy and complicated because there's definitely a speed and coordination aspect of "upside" but there is also a size aspect to "upside" and a (much-ignored) mental processing and consistency aspect to "upside". So if you were to split upside into those three things, I think obviously Brice McCain has the better upside attributable to his speed. But, he doesn't have the best size related upside and while mental processing and consistency upside is very hard to gauge, I think Smith is way ahead in those departments and usually the guy that is better in those areas, will always be better in those areas as a rule of thumb. Also should be considered that between the two of them, Sean Smith is a lot more wet behind the ears. He's a WR convert to CB. I could be mistaken but I think Brice McCain has been playing CB for a long time. So for Sean Smith to be so much better in the technique and mental processing department...has to speak well for his inherent mental powers, no? I would think it does. It's complicated, so much so that disagreement should be valued more than agreement.
imo the video showed mccain being the more explosive athlete, fast twitch, quicker player, but anyone can see that. Smith showed his amazing peripheral skills, his head is still and quiet, while his eyes are roaming, not too concerned with his technique. I did see some slow feet from smith when trying to get his speed going during some changes of direction, he covered it up by slashing his arms and hands faster then his feet were able to move. I dont think there is any real conclusions that can be drawn from this video except that mccain is more explosive and faster and smith is more smooth and aware of whats in front of him. I will say this....the middle of the field is becoming more difficult to defend, so the importance to find players that are quick and can tackle is crucial, its one of the reasons why iam not as scared as some with a lot of the corners size coming out this year. we need a explosive player to play the slot, our own brandon flowers would be nice. one of the top kids is gonna drop to us in the 2nd, i think thats where we find the right value for what fits our teams need {slot corner to begin with with the potential to move up}
Couldn't agree more... especially if we don't have a defined role assigned to how we want to use them. If we were looking for someone to play the slot, I'd be looking at McCain. If we needed a #1, then I'd be looking at Smith. I'm also a huge advocate of the much-ignored mental side of a players game....and the capacity for it. Knowing who these players are in the drill of course changes my opinion of them.... but before I knew who they were, the "player in white" stood out to me in the role of being a lightening quick DB to cover the smaller faster WR's in the league. If you told me he was Darius Butler, we'd be having a different conversation about his potential. LOL.
Good point about covering the middle of the field. That's similar to what I was thinking when I watched McCain run his drills- maybe this kid has the ability to neutralize Welker. ??????
I suppose but to me if we'd found out that it was let's say Darius Butler and the third guy was let's say D.J. Moore, I would treasure that video as showing me with almost near certainty that Sean Smith is a better prospect than Darius Butler and that D.J. Moore might not even be in the NFL four years from now.
Daruis Butler has all the physical tools to be a very good corner, but his lack of plays made as far as interceptions is a concern for me. You have to have a nose for the ball. He is still good value at 44 though, obviously it all depends on where we go with #25.
Sean Smith had 9 interceptions in the last 2 years. He had 4 in 2007 and 5 in 2008. Considering he played on offense prior to 2007, that's pretty damn good. And consistent. It isn't like he just had one breakout year of interceptions.
That is pretty good. I'm glad you told me he was a WR prior to DB. Does that help him an edge over other CBs as far as the mental aspect goes? Worst case scenario with Smith is he becomes our starting FS in a couple years, no?
It definitely could. I remember thinking that Brandon Marshall's time as a safety definitely would help him as a WR...and it looks to me like it did. I'm sure it helps to really understand the other side of the coin and what the other guy is trying to do to you. But really, what it COULD just be is that if a player is good athletic, aggressive and coordinated enough to play both offensive and defensive positions, and a quick enough learner to understand the ins and outs of them in a much shorter time period as opposed to a career one-position guy...then that just bodes well for that player being a very good athlete. Ted Ginn is another example. And in this draft, you may apply the same thing to Connor Barwin. And yeah I do imagine that being a fallback position for Sean Smith but he will have to learn to hit a lot better. He's never played safety before. He's been a WR and a CB...that's how I see him. In fact, my fallback position for him would be WR...like Brandon Marshall...
Brandon Marshall Height - 6 feet, 4.5 inches Weight - 229 lbs 40 Time - 4.52 20 Time - 2.71 10 Time - 1.60 Vertical - 37" Broad Jump - 10'0" Shuttle - 4.31 Cone - 6.96 Sean Smith Height - 6 feet, 3.5 inches Weight - 214 lbs 40 Time - 4.50 (slower track?) 20 Time - 2.59 10 Time - 1.53 Vertical - 34" Broad Jump - 9'11" Shuttle - 4.15 Cone - 6.92 The biggest difference between them is the 15 pounds that Brandon Marshall has, along with an extra inch of height. But Sean Smith is faster, and I could swear Brandon Marshall isn't really 230 pounds anymore. The reason I noted slower track is Marshall ran his 4.52 on the old RCA Dome surface and some believe that this current Lucas Oil Dome surface is slower than the old surface. At his pro day Sean Smith ran a 4.47. So people keep talking about Sean Smith's backup position being as a safety but he's never played there, and being an offensive convert that is newer to playing defense and tackling and whatnot, my instinct would not be to move him deeper down into that rabbit hole and playing a position on defense that requires heavier defensive instincts and more physical tackling ability. My instinct would be to move him BACK to receiver, using the knowledge he gained from being a very good CB as a weapon on the other side of the ball. And when you look at his skill set you see three things that really catch your eye as a potential receiver. 1. He excels at bump and run coverage. Could this translate to excelling at getting off the line of scrimmage as a pro receiver? 2. What I noted from that video about how he doesn't waste steps. It's one cut and he's off. Maybe the first step off that cut isn't great but it's still a one step deal, and he doesn't round off which is a receiver's sin. 3. He keeps a smooth and balanced eye line, as I noted. Very smooth runner. This helps him SEE things and as a receiver, it might help him see the ball. Biggest question...? CAN HE CATCH? Heh. EDIT: Actually now that I look he was an All American running back in high school, ran for 1500 yards and caught for 550 yards as a senior. He moved to WR for his first two years at Utah but didn't see the field much, catching 1 ball for 12 yards and running 7 times for 63 yards.
