How many snaps did the 4th DL get last year? It seems you are choosing to disregard how much we rotate on the DL for the sake of this argument. McDaniel is likely leaving. It's not a given Odrick will even adequately replace him yet.
I hope they lock him in as soon as it's back to buisiness. That way Miami won't get involved. I'd rather have Henne myself.
I wouldn't mind us trading for Orton, I think he's a bit underrated as a Qb. Its kind of ironic that people seem to think he isn't an upgrade over Henne, he's been playing better than Henne ever has for years. He's not an elite Qb but he throws more TDs than picks, he protects the ball well and is capable of putting up big numbers on a good team. We have a good defense, if we can run the ball I think a guy that protects the ball and can make some plays like Orton could get us to the playoffs. Henne could be that guy as well but he hasn't proven he can protect the ball very well or be consistent on any level yet. Its not that I think Orton is a great, great Qb but if he's available at good value he would improve our Qb position. He would be an ideal Qb to hold down the job for a few years while a young Qb is groomed as well.
I think most of us are arguing whether he's worth a high draft pick, not whether he's a small upgrade over Henne.
Well what is an upgrade over our current Qb worth? What is making the playoffs worth? I don't think Orton would cost a 1st round pick, no one would pay that but people on here are scoffing at a third round pick to improve the Qb position, I don't think thats a huge price to pay to have some insurance. I mean what if Henne can't take that next step or gets hurt? I mean we could be looking at being one of the worst teams in the league with Thigpen or some throw in Qb starting.
To me, it comes down to how much better/more creative will Daboll be than Dan Henning? (assuming he gets some level of autonomy from Sparano). If Daboll is a significant upgrade, then I foresee Henne playing to a similar level to what we've seen from Orton, maybe not quite the 2 to 1 TD-INT ratio, but at least in the positive category. If we end up running the same old conservative, boring, yawning, predictable offense as last year, then Orton being here isn't going to make a significant difference. maybe 9-7 instead of 7-9? to me, that's not a significant upgrade worth spending a 2nd rounder on Orton. Like I said, 4th rounder for Orton, seems like a no-brainer. conditional 3rd rounder if he does well? I could be convinced. But a 2nd round pick just seems like too much for a guy that is not as good as his stats show. No matter how you guys spin it, if Orton was that good, he'd still be with Chicago or Denver. jay Cutler is not an elite QB, not even close, and he pushed Cutler out the door. Tim Tebow has a small chance to be successful in the NFL and he pushed Orton out the door.
What about a 3rd that would upgrade to a 2nd if Orton took the majority of offensive snaps and the team makes the playoffs?
Hmm I don't think so, unless they included another player. Orton isn't worth as much as he should be to Denver because of the Tebow pick, they really can't argue that he's the future there. I think a conditional draft pick would be fair for Orton, if he wound up playing 16 games and we made the playoffs I would think a 3rd is a great trade, heck even a 2nd would be worth that but I wouldn't go for a 2nd because I don't think Denver can keep him past this season I believe anyway. I think when it is said and done he will be in Denver, probably as insurance for when Tebow can't win or if he can't start from the get go. I don't like the Tebow pick, I would rather have Orton on my team than Tebow.
I think the play calling could be a huge upgrade but I can't blame playcalling for every problem Henne had last year. Orton has played better on two teams in two different systems than Henne ever has so I would give him an edge to outplay Henne in whatever system we have here as well. I won't say that Orton is elite, I understand he hasn't lit the league up, if he had we'd have to looking at making a blockbuster Cutler type trade for him. I look at him at an upgrade option (not a huge franchise changing upgrade but one that increases our shot at a playoff IMO), and one thats worth looking into. If Denver wants a 1st rounder or a big trade for him, no thanks that would nuts for us to consider, he's not worth that. I do think we need some insurance I mean what do we do if Henne regresses or gets hurt?
True, he is not elite, he would not be in the 30 plus Td 4,500 derby with Rivers and Brees and Co. What makes Orton make sense to me is the last 3yrs, when he has been a clear cut starter, his performance has improved every yr, that is the sort of trend you look for in a player you hope your team trades for, he has not hit his ceiling as of yet like a Fiedler or Frerotte had when they played Qb for us, you want to catch the guy who is coming up not the guy like Palmer who is slowly declining, and his rise has still been better then Henne's performance atm if Orton were a phin he can be penciled in for: -3,500 yds passing -20 Td's -58% completions That is what you "know" you are getting, but there is upside there and his Td to Int ratios are really good: 18 to 12 21 to 12 20 to 9 And he throws an accurate deep pass.
In 09 the Broncos took Robert Ayers from TN to play OLB in their 3-4, he has not done as well as they'd hoped but he has been good, but they drafted Von Miller and they already have Elvis Dumervil, meaning Ayers is superflus especially with Denver switching to the 4-3, he is a man without a position for them as he was to be a Sam in Denver, I happen to recall the Dolphins scouted Ayers heavily in 09.
The bolded may be the best argument for acquiring Orton. But a second, I don't know. Killerphins suggested a fourth and Merling, but if it was me, I might consider a third and Merling.
Well, happened to listen to a Broncos beat reporter on the finsiders and the dude said Orton would probably be on the market for a 3rd rd pick, straight up, he said a #2 pick would "definietely" get a deal done, no additional players needed to be added, the whole toss in Langford thing is just based on the Eagles demands for Kolb, a #1 pick and 1 Starter on Defense.
Sorry, I wouldn't be on board to trade either Starks or Langford. Odrick showed some real promise as a player in preseason last year, but the injury is really worrisome to me. There's too much possibility of re-injury to me to give up one of our two best DE's. Give Odrick a year to reasonably prove that the leg is sound, then we might see about getting a good player of need in a trade for Langford. I'd rather not trade Starks because of his versatility.
He can play either OLB slot and De in the passrush if he made the team. The real odd man out in Denver is Dumervil, with Von Miller in Denver there is their RDE, Dumervil is also not a LDE in the 4-3 and he does not fit in as a 4-3 LB. Fantasy football stuff, but Dooms and Wake would be the top Lb duo in the division hands down.
The money involved to bring in Orton virtually means he's your starter. I'm not a fan of paying that kind of money & obligating ourselves to a QB with limited upside despite Chad having a higher ceiling and will probably be the better QB 2 years from now. I don't know if we're forgetting that the only reason fans want Kyle is b/c he's had enough time to develop into a veteran QB. If we're talking apples to apples here----- Orton after year 3 vs Henne after year 3, not a person in their right mind would choose Orton. This fan base/organization will go nowhere if it continues to seek the instant cure with a maxed-out vet rather than developing the guy with greater talent and potential. We need to find out what we have in Henne. IMO it would be best to re-sign Thigpen and continue developing both of them for 1 year. If they don't pan out, you do whatever possible to draft the QB who fits our offense rather than going with an Orton bandaid. There's no f'n way I'd prefer an average QB like Orton for the next 4+ years over either an improved Henne or a top 2012 1st round QB. 2011 should be about determining whether or not we stay with Henne or go all in for a 1st round QB, because it makes zero sense to trade a quality pick for Orton and then use a 1st rounder (including trading up) for a QB. Orton is not a long term answer, so all he would do is prevent us from maximizing our future success. No thank you. Chicago didn't want him and gave up 2 first round picks to go with someone else; it appears Denver prefers to find out what they have in Tebow or Quinn rather than keeping Orton; however, we want their scraps b/c Kyle's a temporary fix?
Oh I'm sorry, I thought 2011 was about winning and making a SB run, not spending it all to see if Hennezilla is having a Big Kahuna Burger or not.
All good points, but we do need depth even at QB. IMO, ANY trade involving Orton, no matter the team, would have to include him agreeing to a new contract. No team is going to give a 3rd or 4th, or whatever for him, with 1 yr remaining at 8 mill or thereabouts in base salary. If he would agree to a reasonable 4 yr deal, then it is worth a 3rd to have depth and competition at QB. Just would not give him such a big contract that he would be the highest paid #2 in the league, when he ends up losing out to Henne in a head to head competition. The deal could have incentive clauses, like if he wins the #1 job for the season, he gets a bonus at the end and year 2 it escalates. Something like that anyway.
That I could live with, but I wouldn't want to give anything greater than a 4th for him. Maybe a 4th and a future 4th or 5th, but not a 3rd.
You must be feeling a bit frisky today, because I'm really sensing some sarcasm in your response. If we go with Henne it does not mean we are not trying to win just as much as we would be if we traded for Orton. I think you know that. Just seem to be feeling your oats for some reason...
I'd go with as much as a 3rd, that becomes a 2nd IF he takes most of the offensive snaps for the season, and we make the playoffs both. I could live with that.
And 2012? and 2013? and 2014? and 2015? and 2016? what about all those years? I didn't realize that Orton was a guy who could carry a team to the SB. If that's the case, we should enter a bidding war with other needy teams and give up a 1st rounder for him.
It is Friday! To me, good NFL defenses are like this cat: And you do not want your Qb saying "what..whaaat..whaaaat...." and trying to figure things out, or he will have his Big Kahuna Burger eaten for him.
