Can you tie up 60 million dollars for a 3-4 DE

What is the risk factor with Gholston?

Watch the Sugarbowl and you'll see a healthy Dorsey. You may change your mind. It's not a sexy pick . Fans don't always get what is best for a franchise. I like Dorsey. He'll be the guy unless we can trade out.

"Captain lou wrote:

Watch the Sugarbowl and you'll see a healthy Dorsey. You may change your mind. It's not a sexy pick . Fans don't always get what is best for a franchise. I like Dorsey. He'll be the guy unless we can trade out.

Or if he puts on 25lbs

Last I heard he weighed 292. Not the size you look for in a NT

"adamprez2003 wrote:

With our first round pick?

It seems the consensus for our first pick if we are forced to keep it is Chris Long or Dorsey?
But can you tie up 60 million in a 3-4 DE. In a 4-3 you definetly can pay someone like Taylor or Freeney that type of money but a 3-4? Is the money paid to a number one overall force you to draft a running back or quarterback? If we go spend it on a 3-4 DE what does that do to our cap going forward? From a PR standpoint, do you want to spend that money on a guy who isnt going to be a sack machine due to the scheme?

Helluva dilemma huh?

Gholston? maybe but there is a huge risk factor with this guy

McFadden? only if we deal Brown on draft day

Ryan? would have to wow Parcells at combine and a review of Beck would have to have the opposite effect on him

Jake Long? Would have to be a bonafide future Pro Bowl Left Tackle prospect. Not many feel his ceiling is that high

Very tough situation we find ourselves in.

I'd rather spend it on a pass rusher, more than a run stopper. Dorsey may be both, I'll need to see more of him.

D-lineman get more valuable they better they are at rushing the passer.

I could care less about the PR perspective. I want this team to be good, and if that player helps us acheive it... and we become good... no one will be complaining.

"big0mar wrote:

What is the risk factor with Gholston?

Just two in my mind but let me preface it by saying this guy's ceiling is through the roof

1) Tends to disappear at times. Doesnt show up every game or at least doesnt give great effort every game. Want to give someone like that 60 million?

2) He is the definition of a steroid type body. With the recent problems in baseball expect drug testing in the NFL to become more intense next year

"FinNasty wrote:

I could care less about the PR perspective. I want this team to be good, and if that player helps us acheive it... and we become good... no one will be complaining.

:thumbup:

"FinNasty wrote:

I could care less about the PR perspective. I want this team to be good, and if that player helps us acheive it... and we become good... no one will be complaining.

Probably right about that, LOL. If it is he'll instantly become a top five paid 3-4 DE in the NFL though. Maybe even number one. I'm not sure what the pay scale is for 3-4 DEs. Anybody know?

"adamprez2003 wrote:

2) He is the definition of a steroid type body. With the recent problems in baseball expect drug testing in the NFL to become more intense next year

:confused2::confused2::confused2:

testing in the nfl will not become more intense. players are already tested. they can't really do more than test

and you would think that by now people would be educated enough to tell that physical appearance means little in telling who has used steroids (pettite, kevin brown, etc.)

i usually respect most of your insight, but this was just an ignorant statement.

"big0mar wrote:

:confused2::confused2::confused2:

testing in the nfl will not become more intense. players are already tested. they can't really do more than test

and you would think that by now people would be educated enough to tell that physical appearance means little in telling who has used steroids (pettite, kevin brown, etc.)

i usually respect most of your insight, but this was just an ignorant statement.

Could be right on that. I certainly dont know. Matt Roth is another that looks like he juices and he hasnt had any problems. Like you said its impossible to know so I shouldnt speculate. No more speculation on my part

Here is a list from USA Today regarding salaries for DEs

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=124

Anybody know what the salary cap hit will be approximately for the number one pick.

"adamprez2003 wrote:

Could be right on that. I certainly dont know. Matt Roth is another that looks like he juices and he hasnt had any problems. Like you said its impossible to know so I shouldnt speculate. No more speculation on my part

its all good. to be honest i wouldnt be surprised if gholston is on the juice

but i think the NFL, it isnt that big of a deal

castillo from SD tested positive at the NFL combine, and still was drafted high, and basically its been forgotten.
even with merriman, he tested positive, missed 4 games, and thats it.

I dont think you can really avoid players that are potential users, because it is so widespread.

If it were up to me, everything would be allowed. Steroids and HGH can do great things, medically, when taken under a doctor's supervision. It can extend careers for a long time.

You get ZT on the juice and he is back in his prime

From everything I know about Gholston, I will be amazed if he's on drugs.

All three - Long, Gholston and Dorsey - would be great picks. Jake Long is a RT, but Parcells wants a power run game and he's very much a Parcells type.

I agree. Long, Dorsey or Gholston will make me a happy guy. Trade down a few picks and still get Gholston or Long would be even better.

"Boomer wrote:

From everything I know about Gholston, I will be amazed if he's on drugs.

All three - Long, Gholston and Dorsey - would be great picks. Jake Long is a RT, but Parcells wants a power run game and he's very much a Parcells type.

i agree that long is parcells' type

but i think the value of a RT is not going to be what it will be for a d-lineman

you also have to look at who we target in free agency. two premier players at their positions (flozell adams and haynesworth) are going to be on the market.

If we shifted down, I could see Laurinatis, Jeff Otah, Mike Jenkins and the DT at USC all as possibilities.

"big0mar wrote:

i agree that long is parcells' type

but i think the value of a RT is not going to be what it will be for a d-lineman

you also have to look at who we target in free agency. two premier players at their positions (flozell adams and haynesworth) are going to be on the market.

Miami won't sign Haynesworth. He's not a Parcells guy.

It's not beyond the realsm of possibility that Miami signs Flozell Adams, drafts Jake Long to play RT, plays Carey at RG and hopes that Long will assume the LT spot in 2 years. Personally, he doesn't have the footwork to play LT.

"Boomer wrote:

Miami won't sign Haynesworth. He's not a Parcells guy.

It's not beyond the realsm of possibility that Miami signs Flozell Adams, drafts Jake Long to play RT, plays Carey at RG and hopes that Long will assume the LT spot in 2 years. Personally, he doesn't have the footwork to play LT.

I was thinking more along the lines of us signing Adams, moving Carey to RT, and drafting d-line

why do you not think that haynesworth is a parcells guy?

"Boomer wrote:

Miami won't sign Haynesworth. He's not a Parcells guy.

It's not beyond the realsm of possibility that Miami signs Flozell Adams, drafts Jake Long to play RT, plays Carey at RG and hopes that Long will assume the LT spot in 2 years. Personally, he doesn't have the footwork to play LT.

Please no Jake Long.

"big0mar wrote:

its all good. to be honest i wouldnt be surprised if gholston is on the juice

but i think the NFL, it isnt that big of a deal

castillo from SD tested positive at the NFL combine, and still was drafted high, and basically its been forgotten.
even with merriman, he tested positive, missed 4 games, and thats it.

I dont think you can really avoid players that are potential users, because it is so widespread.

If it were up to me, everything would be allowed. Steroids and HGH can do great things, medically, when taken under a doctor's supervision. It can extend careers for a long time.

You get ZT on the juice and he is back in his prime

Yeah I think you're right. You probably cant avoid players that you think might be juicing. Ever since Tony Mandarich flopped Ive had that in the back of my mind when it comes to football drafts but I think on reflection you really cant weight it too heavily.

Yes, you can afford to pay a De 60 million, Julius Peppers comes to mind, if that DE is a playmaker ala Derrick Thomas or LT or Bruce Smith, then why not?

The reason I brought this up was I think a pass rushing terror OLB is more important in a 3-4 than a DE which is why I think Gholston is above Chris Long on my list. Its weird because I would prefer Chris Long if I was building a team and feel he is a safer pick. Maybe not as much upside but I feel pretty comfortable that there is no downside to the guy

Obviously I want Ryan but I realize that Parcells coming on board tilts the defensive likelihood a little more

"padre31 wrote:

Yes, you can afford to pay a De 60 million, Julius Peppers comes to mind, if that DE is a playmaker ala Derrick Thomas or LT or Bruce Smith, then why not?

3-4 DE not a 4-3 DE. A 4-3 DE obviously gets that type of money but does a 3-4 DE? In a 3-4 the big money is usually reserved for the pass rushing OLB

"adamprez2003 wrote:

Anybody know what the salary cap hit will be approximately for the number one pick.

Depends on the structure of the contract and how the money is distributed. I believe this year the #1 overall pick is slotted for about $35 million in guaranteed money. (Yet another reason to avoid Darren McFadden; Ronnie Brown's total contract is exactly that much.)