Can Miami's Defensive Line Shoulder The Load?

Does anyone else share a similar love of watching the 4-3 more than the 3-4? I remember the glory days with Daryl Gardner, Tim Bowens, Trace Armstrong, Jason Taylor. It was beautiful to watch. You lined up with the intention of beating your man. They knew where you were going to come from, but they just couldn't stop it.

I have always felt that the 4-3 is better against the run and if you have two solid to great DE's gets better pressure on the QB than the 3-4. I am really looking forward to getting back to the 4-3. I thin these line-ups could lead to a lot of match up problems for offenses:

1st and 2nd downs: Wake - Starks - Soliai - Odrick
3rd downs: Wake - Starks - Odrick - Vernon

 

I believe our talent is better suited to play this scheme, just in the middle I love it, Solai, Starks and Dansby, with Wake and Vern pressuring the edges, and those two being strong enough to hold the point of attack doesn't hurt the integrity..

Just gotta worry about teams who come out and pass on first down to take advantage of Solai and Odrick..Dpate's got me worried a bit.

 

I'm anxious to see the camp reports on this kind of stuff, because I'm genuinely curious about the defense.

It's quite possible that the Dolphins are still running what is for all intents and purposes still a 3-4 defense. The starting personnel are nearly exactly the same in the front seven as the last couple years. The only difference is Langford replaced by Odrick, and they're still the same kind of player. It's quite possible that they're all lining up in the same general positions with the same general responsibilities, only Wake has his hand down which switches everyone's name. Something in the mold of Nick Saban's defense, which was technically a 4-3.

 

The notion that they're putting more DLs on the field because they're the strongest unit is an incorrect one. Same personnel. Rather,they're trying to streamline responsibilities into what players are good at.

 

I don't know that it's a worry so much as it is what I think teams should do. There's a lot of teams who have significant substitutions from base to nickel, and still are quite good in terms of defense.

PS- When you're at camp, could you check out defensive alignments for me? Don't have to get too scientific or comprehensive, because I know our local sportswriters won't.

 

In terms of the strength of a defense being its core, you don't get much better than that triangle of Soliai, Starks and Dansby.

I'm.not too worried about 1st down. I'm worried about 3rd down.

 

Odrick/Vernon determine if it's good or great.

 

Agreed. For all intents and purposes, I don't think the defense will be that much different, especially with what several members have said this year. Wake talked about being used in a 3-point stance, and standing up. Kevin Coyle's said that it will incorporate the 4-3 and the 3-4, and will be a "multiple, attacking defense". Sounds a lot like Saban's as you said. The one main difference I'm interested in is seeing more players with specific roles on the defense when they enter sub packages. The Bengals last year changed a good amount of their front 7 personnel when they moved to nickel, dime, etc. I don't that that change will be as great with Miami, but I'm curious as to who fits where as Miami has more players that can naturally do more things than the Bengals had last year.

 

The real test for this defense will be 3rd down and passing situations. As far as that goes, I have several concerns:

1. We're playing Jared Odrick out of position in my opinion on 1st/2nd down. Then we're either going to ask him to get off the field so that Tony McDaniel (an inferior player) can come onto the field, or we're going to ask him to reduce inside on 3rd down and rush the passer while he's winded from trying to play a position for which he's not suited on 1st and 2nd down. I don't like this formula. I'd rather keep him doing what he's good at which is subbing in as a DT pass rusher primarily, and then subbing in for Starks on 1st/2nd down when he needs a blow.

2. I'll believe that Olivier Vernon will offer good 3rd down pass rush from a DE spot when I see it.

 

Sort of, imo it really boils down to Safety play, any schlub can pass rush, w/o talented safeties Brady and Co will eat our lunch with long plays

I'm not a fan of Odie's game, but disagree with Ck about Vernon, imo he can bend the edge effectively if given the chance.

 

Eh, for me it is the secondary, SS and VD have not really proven to be turnover creators, and our Safeties are untested at best, a good recipe for a track meet in the secondary esp with the emphasis on a no huddle offense meaning quick change of possessions.

 

Marshall should help our secondary quite a bit.

 

Thank you so much for saying that.

I just don't see it. He's not a big guy, he's not a speed rusher, he doesn't have a polished repertoire of pass rush moves. Not saying he won't/can't produce for us but it seems as though its being taken for granted that he will hit the ground running.

Same for Lamar Miller. Call me when he learns how to pass pro b/c until he can do that he'll be returning kicks/covering punts and/or glued to bench.

Good point on Odrick as well, but I don't think we have much of a choice there b/c he's the only other guy on the roster who can play the position.

 

Three of your last eight posts begin with "Eh, ..."

 

It goes back to what you said about the safeties. If we can get some consistency back there it'll free up our corners to be more aggressive.

VD and Sean are both dangerous, Vontae especially, but unless we have guys behind them who can erase mistakes the temptation is to play it safe and avoid giving up the big play.

I'd love to see us incorporate more Cover 2 looks into the defense. That'll definitely free our corners up to be more aggressive and make some plays. Dansby can play the seam as well as any LB in the game, Burnett is a solid pass defender, our four man pass rush is decent enough, which brings us back to the safeties...

 

I agree with everything here except for on Lamar Miller. Would be next to impossible to be worse at it than Reggie Bush. Truthfully you can almost never know how a tailback is going to be at pass pro until you get him into a PRO training camp with PRO coaches getting on his *** to do it right. That's just the truth. You've got guys that sucked at it in college that are good at it in the pros. There's only so many practice hours allowed in college and it's not important enough to be coached properly.

What I would want to do with Vernon, and I've said this before, is to use him on passing downs and put him over a guard the same way Baltimore does with Pernell McPhee and Kansas City does with Wallace Gilberry. He's not a "special" athlete but he is athletic and can run, more than a guard can handle athletically in a pass rush. Yet his best attribute is his hands and really uncanny strength for his size. The uncanny strength can help him protect against guards trying to dominate him with pure physicality, and that leaves him free to use his significant athletic advantage to get around them and rush the passer. I would also consider using him on 1st/2nd down to defend the run, perhaps from a Jarret Johnson type linebacker position. He's that impressively strong.

You are correct they have few other choices than to have Odrick man the LDE spot full time...but that's where the GM'ing comes into play, acquiring guys so that you aren't backed into that kind of corner. That's just my opinion.

 

I think there's just loads of mystery in general on defense even beyond the basic formation end of it. Kevin Coyle has coached for a bunch of different coverage schemes. Zone blitz, cover-2, man-heavy schemes. It'll be interesting to see what he ends up running. Could be very little blitzing, could be 5 on most plays.

 

With Wake being a better rusher vs RT's, who plays RDE in those situations?

I'd have to say Vernon or Odrick, or the UDFA de from Missouri has a opportunity?

 

Who has Kevin Coyle worked with over the years again?

I know he's mentioned before something along the lines of the defense being a little bit of Marvin Lewis, a little bit of Mike Zimmer, etc...but there were more names than just that.

 

I don't think anyone really knows at this point. Last year Wake was a LDE/LOLB regardless if it was the offenses strong-side or not, and Odrick was edge-rushing pretty frequently as a Nickel RDE. It would seem kind of backwards, but it's got precedent. I tend to think it'd be a strong/weak thing at least to an extent in the base defense and then Wake as LDE in Nickel.

 

Jared Odrick's involvement as a RDE seemed to be limited to a sort of 'big nickel' package where the defense decided that the offense's personnel package conflicted with situational priorities, and therefore the Dolphins didn't want to necessarily have their base package on the field, nor their pass rush package.

From what I saw, he did not rush the passer well from that position at all. He made most of his impact in pass rush from the interior. If I have reservations with his new role it is that you're dialing up his snap counts by giving him more snaps in the role which he didn't play all that well, which could in turn make him less fresh and impactful at the role he played really well.

I think the Dolphins' pass rush packages will not involve Odrick at RDE or LDE but rather will see Olivier Vernon get on the field. That seems to be the information that is filtering from the coaches into the media.

As for the Mizzou guy...maybe he makes the roster, maybe not, but I was more impressed with Derrick Shelby's college tape.

 

Vernon's strength is his..well strength, right? Shouldn't we want him to rush from a position where he goes 1-on-1 with a lineman on the inside?

 

My preference would be that. His athletic advantage is greater versus guards than tackles and he's got strong enough hands to make it work. Dolphins are indicating they're having him rush from the outside on pass rush downs. I'm not as big a fan of that.

 

I'd say most notably Dick LeBeau and Leslie Frazier.

 

Dick LeBeau was the other guy he named. He said his defense will be some Dick LeBeau, some Marvin Lewis, some Mike Zimmer.

 

That'd certainly explain the 4-3/3-4 hybrid looks, and being a "multiple, attacking style" of defense he mentioned in that interview with John Congemi.