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Can Brock Figure Out the Deep Ball?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know it takes QBs some time to get their receiver's speed and timing down on deeper passes, and that's really the one thing this offense is missing that we had under Tannehill. Until you beat opponents deep they can stack the box and get after your QB.

    I'm not a QB guy though so I'm wondering- why can't Brock hit these wide open receivers downfield? Is it throwing mechanics? It is timing? Not enough repetition? Is it not being able to set his feet? Or is his arm just not strong enough to get the ball downfield with enough velocity? I'm curious what the QB folks here see that the rest of us wouldn't.

    Also, what else is he missing to fall into that tier 1 category? Is it trainable stuff? Just curious. Please don't turn this into an "Oz sucks" thread because there's no sense in it- he's our locked QB1 regardless of how much we like/hate him.
     
  2. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Valid question on the deep passes KeyFin, but dude.. this quote:
    Tier 1???..??..?

    Nope not trainable. What's he missing? The body and mind of Aaron Rodgers! Now.. it is true that both of those things will be physically closer to Osweiler on Sunday so we just need science to advance fast enough in the next 2 days to allow total transfer of abilities from Rodgers to Osweiler (must be in a non-invasive manner). If that happens, THEN yes I think Osweiler can be a tier 1 QB. :smile:
     
  3. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Accuracy is an innate trait for QBs. You either have it, or don't. You can moderately improve a QB's accuracy via footwork, tightening up the throwing motion, etc. But you'll never remake an inaccurate QB in to an accurate one.

    Accuracy was one of Tannehills best attributes and why I supported him.
     
  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, here's how I see it. I don't care if it's Marino starting or Cleo Lemon, the goal is to win 16+ games. For your QB the goal is to have them play on par with the best in the league....regardless if they have the talent or ability to do it. So I think it's a valid question- what does he need to become the next Brees or Rodgers?

    Just because we know he'll never get there doesn't make the question any less valid. =)
     
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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with you, and not in the "completion %" argument where we say someone must be accurate if they complete 60% of their passes. In the first few game Osweiler had a lot of great underneath throws (up to 5-6 yards) that hit the receiver in stride. He also had a few very good tosses in the 7-15 yard range that impressed me. For instance, his sideline throw to Amendola last week....awesome placement and trajectory. But he hasn't connected on a single deep throw (15+ yards) all year that I can remember.

    Can a QB be highly accurate on 1-15 yard throws and completely horrible on 15+? That's what it looks like to me but again, I don't know what I'm talking about. =)
     
  6. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Meh, who cares. It's Brock. He is what he is at this point - he is not a novice new to the league brimming with untapped talent. At the absolute best you hope he can maybe do a Case Keenum in Minnesota streak to get us through the year, but again, it's Brock.
     
  7. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Amendola was wide open on that play, but I agree about proper placement by hitting him on the inside shoulder as not to lead him OOB and giving him a chance for YAC.

    As far as the range inconsistencies, simply put, the further the distance, the greater the discrepancy becomes.
     
  8. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Active Member

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    In the 70's, I used to watch Joe 90. For the uninitiated, he was a 9 year old kid who was a secret agent (stay with me). He'd get some unsuspecting nuclear scientist/ace fighter pilot/tier 1 quarterback to put on some geeky specs for a few minutes and the specs would download the wearers brain patterns. Then Joe's dad would programme them into a machine called The Big Rat and Joe would sit in there, wired up for a few minutes while the theme tune played. When he came out, he'd have the skill set of whoever's brain patterns he'd uploaded into his skull. The clever bit was that he was a 9 year old kid being a GOAT fighter pilot or QB. It was a bit like a puppet version of Doogie Howser MD but more believable.

    Anyway, what I'm saying is that is the sort of thing we would need to knock up before Sunday to give Brock an even chance. I mean, this was the 1970's when this was on so I can't believe no one has invented it by now. Anyone got a soldering iron and a bank of massive computers with the big spools and that never ending tape..?
     
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  9. ripper1961

    ripper1961 Active Member

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    As Dolphin fans I think we all hope that Brock will somehow elevate his game. Sadly I do not see it happening. That being said, I do think he can get us some wins.He just has to limit the mistakes.
     
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  10. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Interesting! Realistically though, such technology (if it's ever developed) is at least a century or even several centuries away.

    Just to give people some idea of the current limitations, the human retina (in your eye) is far simpler to understand than the rest of the brain, including the portion that processes visual input (called the visual cortex located in the back of your brain). Yet we still don't understand how the retina works after tons of research over the better part of a century. To give an example, consider something called "retinal prosthesis".

    Retinal prosthesis are small implantable devices that artificially stimulate cells in your retina. It's useful for those who have an eye disease where the light sensitive cells (called cones) are gone but the cells those cones stimulate are still present in the retina. So theoretically you could just stimulate those 2nd/3rd layers in the retina based on a camera image and get the same result as if you had cones. These devices already exist and have allowed people who have completely lost sight to see "something" (I put that in quotations because they can only make out coarse shadows, no real objects etc.. but it's certainly better than being totally blind)

    Here's the thing. There are two barriers to further development of this technology. One is engineering related (how small can you make the electrodes that physically stimulate the cells in the retina) while the other is science related: the signaling properties of neurons change once you start stimulating them, meaning that you can't properly interpret these neural signals anymore. And despite tons of research we can't predict how signaling properties of neurons change with stimulation!

    And if you can't properly interpret them, how could you ever transfer information from one brain to another? That's just the retina! It's far more complex for the rest of the brain. And this is after TONS of research over the better part of a century. So realistically, we'll all be dead and then some before anything like this kind of tech appears (if ever!).

    Summary: Osweiler's not going to become Aaron Rodgers lol.
     
  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here's a more likely scenario- and I think quantum computing comes into play as the 3rd variable. Maybe you can't transfer skills from one person to the next, but could you map the brain and transfer a person's information to a PC? I think that's the closer breakthrough and not that far off. How you'd use it though....that's another story entirely.
     
  12. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Same problem. We don’t know what to “download” to simulate the signaling properties of neurons, or worse.. neural circuits. Realistic time frame for that (IF it ever occurs) is also measured in centuries.

    Best bet if you want that kind of “immortality” is to cryogenically freeze your brain and hope that centuries later science advances far enough. Even then, you can’t be confident that the freezing process itself won’t destroy key structures or that science will show you actually need to see those neurons in action and not frozen. All this is really science fiction.. with emphasis on the word fiction.
     
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  13. mbsinmisc

    mbsinmisc Season Ticket Holder

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    You are WAY off. I had my brain mapped yesterday. Dummies.
     

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  14. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets

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    How come there's no Liquor store? And a town that size, at least here in WA should have at least two pot shops.
     
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  15. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Well-Known Member

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    Just curious. Is it safe to say that accuracy is a somewhat rare QB skill? Could Gase's dink and dunk system be one way he is trying to mitigate the accuracy issue? In a way, it's not a bad idea since QB's seem to get injured quite often these days. We had RT. We now have Brock, an injury later we could have Fales.

    Edit: Never mind. I won't bother any more.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018 at 4:36 PM
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  16. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Active Member

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    Well, we've got the bye week to get some sort of brainwave transferring machine rigged up otherwise we're toast.

    I've just had a look in my toolbox and I have some copper cable, a pair of pliers, various screwdrivers and some electrical tape. All we need now is a multi-billion $ company to supply the gear, a team of elite scientists to knock it all together - under the supervision of cbrad and Cleo Lemon to provide the brainwaves - and we MIGHT just make the post season...
     
  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I can throw in an old toaster and two MP3 players if that helps....it seemed like they used that stuff in the movie Weird Science to bring their dream girl to life!
     
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  18. Galant

    Galant Well-Known Member

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    Bottom line? I very much doubt it considering the state of the OL.
     
  19. Dummuck

    Dummuck New Member

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    There is one way to elevate Brocks game and it is a very simple and easy method..All That The Miami Dolphins have to do is put a clip board in Brocks hands to hold on to as he watches Fales play.
     

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