1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Camarillo Interview (Personal Foul Call)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by NolePhin, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. NolePhin

    NolePhin Look out for D-Bess

    1,007
    651
    0
    Apr 27, 2009
    Davie, FL
    dolfan7171 and CJG like this.
  2. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

    52,575
    25,478
    113
    Nov 13, 2009
    He's 100% right. There was no whistle, and last I checked, this isn't college football. It is the NFL. Gotta be downed on contact in this league.
     
  3. mroz

    mroz F the Browns Club Member

    20,469
    14,189
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    I don't need Greg to tell me that was a bad call, I know what I saw...

    BTW, the NFL now will fine Greg for talking about the refs in 3,2,1
     
    dolfan7171 likes this.
  4. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

    52,575
    25,478
    113
    Nov 13, 2009
    Well, he didn't talk bad about the refs, or the call. He was only explaining his own actions. I'd be shocked at the ineptitude of the League should he be fined.
     
    siciliansith and dolfan7171 like this.
  5. gofins

    gofins Active Member

    182
    79
    28
    Nov 24, 2007
    Laurel, Md
    That was one of the worst calls I've seen in a while.
     
  6. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    I agree with him that he what he was doing was the right thing to touch the defender, but if I recall correctly (I deleted the game off of my tivo already) he didn't come up and touch the defender who had given himself up, he came in blazing with two elbows/forearms. When someone gives themselves up, usually you'll see two hand touch or something.

    Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but that's what I remember, Camarillo semi-throwing himself at the defender. If someone has a clip I'd love to rewatch it.
     
    steveincolorado and dolfan7171 like this.
  7. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

    52,575
    25,478
    113
    Nov 13, 2009
    I don't underestimate how fast someone can get up and run past me. He hustled toward the defender because, not having heard any whistle, to him, there was a chance that the defender could get up and run with it. Other Titans yelled for him to "get up".
     
    dolfan7171 likes this.
  8. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Well dolfan87 put this gif on youtube (and posted it in the Club) so hopefully he doesn't mind me reposting the youtube clip here:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jym1rHYRsvE"]YouTube- Camarillo.mov[/ame]

    Note a couple things. Griffin starts to curl into a fetal position, not trying to get up, when Cam hits him. Second, #22 may have been yelling at him to get up, but Griffin doesn't, you can see #22 throw his hand at disgust at his own teammate for taking a dive instead of getting up. See how #22 does that and begins to walk away in disgust (before Cam hits him and he comes back to help his teammate).
    Third, why is Ginn and Carey (I think it's Carey) running off the other way? It's possible they just messed up and should have still been pursuing the play, it's also possible they heard a whistle (maybe the same one #22 heard) that Cam didn't hear? Also note how Hartline comes running in but lets up at the end (he doesn't go full blow in like Cam).

    It is quite possible a whistle had blown. Remember someone saying that the stadium erupted when the INT was made.
     
  9. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

    52,575
    25,478
    113
    Nov 13, 2009
    Oh I see. I had forgotten he was curling into himself. Yeah, you're right. Cam is a player who plays in between whistles, but yeah he could have done that differently. In his last defense, he did pick up on fellow Titans running in to possibly set up a convoy once Griffin got up. You can never be too sure, especially not when the whistle hasn't blown yet.

    No matter what, I'm proud we have guys like Cam, Taylor and Bell who play hard no matter what. Guys who earn their money on effort plays. If I recall correctly, Camarillo had caused fumbles on two separate occasions to save drives last year.

    It's also funny you mentioned Ginn running the other way. Doesn't he always though? :pointlol:
     
    jdang307 likes this.
  10. DolfanCole

    DolfanCole Season Ticket Holder

    1,819
    377
    0
    Jan 4, 2008
    Hampton, VA
    Actually, from that replay, it seemed like he was making a move to get up (could definitely be interpreted as such, and even moreso if his teammate was yelling at him to do so). But then he saw Cam coming and curled up to absorb the hit. Not sure if that's what was actually happening, but it could definitely be interpreted that way IMO. And outside of a whistle blowing, that's a very legitimate play to me and should not have drawn a flag.
     
  11. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    7,681
    3,321
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Ohio
    the league is beyond a joke. if it wasnt such a great game, & the love of the phins, i wouldnt watch.

    1st is that w/ all their money, why no f/t refs? is it money? not IMO. I believe it is the good ol' boy club

    i also hate how nfl tries to cover up bad calls thinking it keeps integrity illusion alive. which the opposite is reality, no integrity.

    $ talks, that is rules are made, calls are made Based on what keeps the green flowin, who is hot, who hasmore influence? is it a team that invokes true emotion love or hate, ala pats.

    nfl is also arrogant, they know fans wont walk orbelieve that n e way. they dont need ref acctability or the appearence of
     
  12. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

    20,810
    8,965
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Hollywood, Florida
    Umm he wasnt curling until he SAW Camarillo coming. He was in fact getting up.
     
    DolfanCole likes this.
  13. DolfanCole

    DolfanCole Season Ticket Holder

    1,819
    377
    0
    Jan 4, 2008
    Hampton, VA
    That's my interpretation as well.
     
    Alex44 likes this.
  14. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    3,304
    1,210
    113
    Aug 24, 2009
    Deltona FL
    And Camarillo slowed down a bit on that last step, and pushed him over with his hands, not spear tackled him, his feet were on the ground the entire time, and you can see his last step is deliberately slower.

    I can see HOW the refs could make that call, but I still think it's the wrong one, ESPECIALLY with a game so close. Thats when they should be lax with toughness calls. But whatever, what's done is done. It shouldn't have been a game where a single call made the difference, that falls on our team.
     
  15. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

    25,411
    5,743
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    That game had so many horrible calls.
     
  16. theWeasel

    theWeasel Junior Member

    454
    68
    0
    Mar 24, 2008
    Hollister Florida

    Ginn said - Vernon lets get the hell out here before we have to make contact! :lol:
     
    Themole likes this.
  17. mroz

    mroz F the Browns Club Member

    20,469
    14,189
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area

    as bad as the 2nd holding call on Soliai?
     
  18. Themole

    Themole Season Ticket Holder

    7,873
    1,594
    0
    Jan 4, 2008
    Palatka Fl.
    Sadly they remind me of Chris Leak, my brother.
     
    theWeasel likes this.
  19. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

    22,422
    9,819
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    DC Metro Area
    I just think if you are going to throw the flag on Cam, then you have to throw the flag on #31 TEN for retailating and shoving Cam right back. Either its off-setting or its nothing.

    Bad bad call.
     
    phineas64 and Themole like this.
  20. Themole

    Themole Season Ticket Holder

    7,873
    1,594
    0
    Jan 4, 2008
    Palatka Fl.

    We would have been much better off had there never been a merger. The NFL has no competition and gives their viewers what they want, not what the viewers want. The old AFL was much more fun to watch. If it wasn't for the Dolphins, I would no longer watch them. Their game has turned to sh**!
     
    theWeasel likes this.
  21. siciliansith

    siciliansith Resident Deviant

    4,937
    922
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Rochester NY
    There shouldn't be discussion on this IMO because :

    1. Cam did not lead with head or shoulder. Or as someone stated possible with elbows. That was all hands and he just touched the guy with a small shove.(kinda pulled up to)

    2. The refs are at fault because they did not blow the whistle.

    I understand we played for more than 60 minutes and it should not come to this.
    But we got robbed of 15 yards at a crucial time. we may have won or lost on that call. It was a game changing call period
     
  22. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

    22,422
    9,819
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    DC Metro Area
    Is this video that much different then Cam's play? No Flag here!

    3-11-SF 29 (:53) (Shotgun) 5-D.McNabb pass deep middle intended for 10-D.Jackson INTERCEPTED by 36-S.Spencer at SF -3. Touchback. WATCH HIGHLIGHT
     
  23. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

    5,126
    3,241
    113
    Dec 12, 2007
    Even though we have the luxury of watching the replay, I still think the ref made the right call CONSIDERING the situation.

    For one, Cam came in like a heat-seeking missile, regardless of the contact (which was minimal). It is the ref's interpretation of the play that makes all of the difference in the world. And until I saw the replay several times, I realized that although Cam came in hot, he did not inflict damage. The ref might have also taken it as retaliation for the INT, and along with the speed of Cam, prompted a flag being thrown.

    Was I ticked? Yeah. But I am not going to blame the ref for losing Miami the game. Miami lost that game. How many turnovers did they have in/near the red zone? How many FG's instead of TDs did Miami have?

    It's all about interpretation, and if I were the ref, I would have probably thrown a flag, too. Cam came in a little too hot. It's kind of like a "bang bang" play in baseball. Sometimes the refs get it right, sometimes they do not. Sometimes they let the guys play the game. Sometimes they don't. For example, the Soliai holds. Were they holds? Yes! Do the refs let them go at times? Yes. Regardless if they're "ticky tack". It's a rule that can be flagged.

    This was not some blatant mistake that will be over-examined on NFL Network. It's just a play that was interpreted a little differently than what we fans see with replay. The game is so fast that these guys cannot make all of the right calls, but IMO, make the right call more times than not. But in this instance, it was the right call. I would want that exact same call against another team if that happened to one of Miami's players.

    Sometimes in the NFL, it's not about what a player does, but rather, his intent. In this case, the ref took Cam's intent in placing harm to a grounded player.
     
    PhiNomina likes this.
  24. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

    22,422
    9,819
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    DC Metro Area
    Refs have THROWN lots of flags, then they realize its in error, and calmly state NO FOUL occured. That should have been the case here.

    No rule says, once its THROWN it must be called. That was BS...still is.
     
    Themole likes this.
  25. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

    20,810
    8,965
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Hollywood, Florida

    If another team did that to us, I would still think it was a horrible call. So I have to disagree.
     
  26. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

    5,126
    3,241
    113
    Dec 12, 2007
    Why was it a horrible call?
     
  27. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

    22,422
    9,819
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    DC Metro Area
    Simplest way to put this.....There was NO UNsportsmanlike conduct!

    WATCH HIGHLIGHT How is this any different??? No Flag here!
     
    DolfanCole likes this.
  28. Themole

    Themole Season Ticket Holder

    7,873
    1,594
    0
    Jan 4, 2008
    Palatka Fl.
    It was a live ball, the player wasn't down and the hit was not unsportsman like. For all Cam knew the guy was about to spring up and run. His team mates were saying; Get up! Get up! Cam did the correct thing. I've seen much worse not called. The Ref blew it.
     
    DolfanCole likes this.
  29. DolfanCole

    DolfanCole Season Ticket Holder

    1,819
    377
    0
    Jan 4, 2008
    Hampton, VA
    Sorry to be off-topic, but I just got a kick out of "theWeasel" thanking "TheMole". :lol:
     
  30. Themole

    Themole Season Ticket Holder

    7,873
    1,594
    0
    Jan 4, 2008
    Palatka Fl.
    That's what brothers do. :up:
     
    DolfanCole and BigDogsHunt like this.
  31. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

    5,126
    3,241
    113
    Dec 12, 2007
    From what I saw, the guy was essentially bear-hugged on that play (with a little emphasis). It could have been called differently, yes, but the ref decided not to call it. Again, it's all on the ref's interpretation. Different game. Different ref. Similar play, but not similar circumstances.

    Cam came in with a little more "umph", if you will. Just my opinion. I am not mad at Cam or the call, although, it did put Miami in a precarious situation...
     
  32. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

    5,126
    3,241
    113
    Dec 12, 2007
    Firstly, the player was "down". He gave himself up. Regardless of what other players were saying, the player was down, period. He may have intended to get up and run. Who knows? Maybe he was just getting up to get up off of the ground and head back to the sidelines? With the exception of his teammate saying "Get up!", all of the other players were walking off.....what does that tell you? It tells me that they, too, thought the play was over. Whistles blown, play dead. It does not matter if Cam heard the whistles or not (at least, not to the ref).

    I am not blaming Cam for what he did, nor am I blaming the ref for the call. I also think Cam did the right thing. In his mind, he was doing the right thing. And that is really all that matters, right?

    To Cam, I'll just cite Descartes' insight on foundationalism:

    [Mistakes happen] "simply because at the beginning we make judgements too hastily, and accept as our first principles matters which are obscure and of which we do not have a clear and distinct notion."
     
    Themole likes this.
  33. phineas64

    phineas64 Season Ticket Holder

    Cam was def coming in full speed, but you gotta get there while they are on the ground, or be forced to actually make a tackle, so he was making sure he got there. He also obviously let up and didn't make any contact except with his hands (from another angle you can see there's no helmet to helmet), so for this to get flagged is silly. He essentially did a two hand touch on the guy while slowing down. If you stringently apply the rulebook, yea it's a penalty, but then I would expect they would equally stringently apply the rule against #31 (Finnegan?) for retaliating. My only problem with the refereeing in this game is it went one way. We got flagged for some pretty ticky tack stuff that the Titans were getting away with. Called both ways, no problem. Even so, if we played even moderately well we win the game in spite of the flags. Did the refs singlehandedly cost us the game? No. Did they give the Titans some iffy calls in key situations? Yes. And that sucks, even if it wasn;t the reason we lost. Heck, it annoys me when we WIN and the other team is the recipient of a few 'gifts'! lol
     
    Themole likes this.
  34. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    You guys are reaching if you think it looks like Griffin was trying to get up and run. If he was, he's slower than my grandma, who's dead. He never even looks up to see where to go. Yes he curls up when he sees Cam coming in, because his eyes were towards the ground and he can still see Cam coming in hotter than Tom Cruise on an F-14. He's bracing himself for an impact.

    Why do you think before Cam gets there his teammate motions in disgust to him? Because he wasn't going to get up and run. Look at his helmet. He never takes his eyes off the grass immediately in front of him.

    Hey I like Cam as much as everyone, but he comes in, lowers his head, and pushes Griffin over. Yes, he lowers his head, bracing for impact, on a guy who's on all fours. It was not a horrible call.
     
  35. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    7,724
    9,973
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    If Camarillo wasn't pushed from behind by a Tennessee player it probably would have been only a two hand touch....he's bending over and knocked off balance. On top of the other mistakes that have been pointed out, there should be a clipping penalty added.
     

Share This Page