Interesting read. I came away feeling better after reading this. When I saw that blown screen I also thought that Martin was blown up on that play. Thoughts on this analysis? http://www.thephinsider.com/2013/8/...in-experiment-the-hall-of-fame-game-breakdown
I'd like to see the blown up screen shots. However I did think he performed decent in that game. Especially in run blocking.
I agree that Martin has become the whipping boy for every Ireland hater and every guy who didn't like the pick. Reality is that Long was a shell of his former self last season. I don't see it as a stretch to believe that Martin will be as good as Long was for us this year. In fact, I think it's a pretty low bar that Martin reached in the first preseason game. I don't know that I see a huge upside for Martin, but I think he's pretty similar to Staley. I actually had Martin rated a little better than I did Staley when they came out. I think a big part of Staley's rep now is how good Smith and then Kaepernick played. Staley certainly improved, but those mobile QBs save him when he makes the mistake. IMO the biggest factor in how good Martin is perceived to be is how decisive RT becomes.
Martin has struggled in practice and deserves the concern and a majority of the criticism. We really have no other options at LT right now, and that is a fair criticism of Jeff Ireland, who is the GM, and is responsible for that. Now... there are a couple of people who may have over-reacted with certain criticism. On the flip side, I think there are a couple of people who have over-reacted to the over-reaction, have been little more than insulting and childish themselves, and are just as bad. There are people on both sides of this debate who need to pull their head out of their a$$, and stop acting like children. That's just my opinion. Back to the main subject... it's good Martin responded by playing well against Dallas. I hope he keeps it up, because the options are very limited.
I think considering the god awful behavior last season, that its completely acceptable for some of us to over react to the Firelanders. This offseason has been a dream and I don't want it devolving into every other post being devoid of intelligent criticism and filled with hate rhetoric. I think people are forgetting that last year, there was even a freaking protest.
Whether Jon Martin played poorly or not is subjective. Some will feel one way, some another. But I don't know any way to say that he played "well" or "good". He played a backup in Kyle Wilber who had 16 snaps last year, and he got beat once, got pushed all the way back to the QB another time, and also should have gotten flagged for a blatant hold. He also got knocked to the ground by Wilber on another play. How anyone takes that as encouraging over the course of like 6 pass plays for your starting left tackle against a 4th round pick that had 16 snaps a year ago (their version of Egnew) is beyond me. His run blocking was pretty good in the game though. Hopefully that continues.
There are people who think Led Zepplin sucks. Seriously. Is it really necessary to argue with everyone?
Sigh. How do you not understand what I just wrote? Because this post, really has nothing to do with what I wrote.
I continue to rewatch, if I'm PFF I give him a plus on all but 1 play..he wasn't playing anthony spencer or ware comin off the edge but a good showing because he looks like he has at least improved..kickslide looked faster. PFF style.. 1st play, came off the line much faster than his opponent, was aggressive forward in his angle to move the D end completely out if the play...Lamar fumbled...+ 2nd play..quick kickslide, good jump off the snap, mirrored and centered his opponent, QB ran up in the pocket so Martins defender switched gears to go chase, Martin gave him a little hold to stop him but he didnt need to, his man was beat, also props for running to the pile grabbing a defender a shoving him away from his Qb.+ 3rd play..showed quickness off the snap p, quickness in his pivot and ran his defender out of the play..+ 4th play. 2nd Lamar 10 yard run..got off the snap fast, sealed off his player by flipping his hips 90 degrees to the los and totally got in front of his defender centering him off on the seal.+ 5th play..quick pass from Tannehill incomplete..Martin was in position, his defender did not affect the lane.+ 6th play.same thing to the other side.. 7th play..he got beat on the outside rush, defender slapped his hands down and got around the corner..- 8th play. He pulled from his position, anticipated the snap and got out of his stance very quickly and went low on the D tackle, the back got cut up at the LOS, not martins guy though, his movement looked like a plus.+ 9th play..Good pass protection.. + 10th play, gave Tannehill enough protection on a shotgun 3 step slant pattern, if it had been a longer play prolly not.. He looked improved from last year to me, better technique, more aggressive when engaging his opponent.
The way I see it the average NFL QB takes about 2.75 seconds to throw the football. On that one play you noted DJ where Tannehill got the ball off to Gibson quickly, Ryan actually threw the ball in under 2.0 seconds. What I need to see is a lineman give the QB that 3 seconds to throw. When I don't see that, that block COULD have resulted in a pressure, hit, sack or strip...and the only variables deciding which ends up happening would be the QB's handling of the situation and a little bit of randomness. So I hear ya on the + or - thing (and I think you have to keep in mind that simply having more +'s than -'s might not necessarily make you even an 'average' OL player, because the average OL executes his assignment far more often than not)...but I gotta give the dude minuses for the holding that wasn't called, the play he got beat and the play where Wilber was within arm's reach of the QB by the time Tannehill threw the quick ball to Gibson. That's just being honest. It's how I've graded tackles for a long time. People can pretend I have a dog in this race but the fact of the matter is I gave the Dolphins a positive grade for drafting Martin, and I was as optimistic about it as most. I let the film and the data speak for themselves.
from what I saw he was awful in pass protection. Now I flipped between the rose bowl so I might have missed some things.
Ok, yeah I was a bit hesitant because the play got executed, but on those two plays the finish you want to see wasn't quite there, the Qb had enough time, but you want to see him win til the end. For me, from where I stand on the player, I did see some individual improvement, wherever that starting point is, is up to interpretation of the person evaluating..I'm just looking for him to get to average..
I see. So basically in your world all you want is to say things like this: But not have to defend it or justify it? You talk about irony, but you blast people for their opinions in response to reading their opinions but want no part in anyone doing that to you.
It's relative, I guess. Martin wasn't getting abused in the Dallas game as it has been reported he was in practice. If you think he was bad, fair, or whatever, I can accept that. I've liked the breakdowns from Omar and now djphin... I'd be curious to see yours. I like hearing/seeing different opinions.
i asked this in another thread can´t remember were but anyways if you see that play of millers fumble unfold from behind, do you think he is gone if he does not fumble ? it looks that way
Essentially my breakdown is thus: He executed his run assignments (4 snaps) well. No complaints. In pass protection (6 snaps), I saw: 1. A play where he blocked well but then blatantly held Wilber as Tannehill scrambled and he should've been flagged 2. A play where he got beat around the edge after Wilber slapped and neutralized his hands 3. A play where he successfully blocked Wilber for 3 seconds but then got thrown to the ground by Wilber who was free to retrace 4. A play where he he allowed Wilber to breathe down Tannehill's neck on 3 step drop timing Realistically speaking, some days at the office (assuming only 10 snaps), that level of blocking consistency is going to be good for zero pressures on the QB, a statistically perfect balance sheet. It's at the will of circumstances not under his control. However, also realistically speaking, some other days that level of blocking quality is going to be good enough for three pressures on the QB (any of which could be sacks), PLUS a holding call. That would be a day that most would assign labels like "putrid" and the like. And the only thing that will have changed would be a realistic change in near-random circumstances not under his control. I meet them somewhere in the middle, and say he had a flawed day at the office. The fact that it was against a player I don't think is about to be a good starter any time soon, makes it just a little MORE flawed, to me. Honest opinion.
God I can't believe we're even talking this much about 10 freaking plays. But anyway. This is topical: http://www.finheaven.com/forums/sho...t-late&p=1064734534&viewfull=1-post1064734534 That's a play by play review and grading conducted by the former offensive coordinator of the London Blitz. He said he graded it like he would have any of the guys he coaches. His grading scale was a 0, a 1 or a 3 for each play. On the 10 plays, he had a total score of 9.
TBF, its a score of 9 out of 9 plays. If you don't get a score on one play at all, it shouldn't count period. That's about as average as average gets...and that's a huge improvement.
Hey, he played better ball than what I saw last year, my starting point was at bad, overrated coming out of college, his play was as suspected last year, in one preseason game against inferior competition, his individual play looked to be improved, that's all I got..lol
I thought Martin did pretty well. Some gave him a negative on the screen play but I think he was letting the guy go - the other DLs on Dallas read the play and broke it up. The salient point, however, is that it was against a backup (who knows, though, maybe the player he was up against is developing into a quality player?). The real test will be against the big time DE s. Will they manhandle him? run by him? get him off balance? I didn't really sense that RT had lots of time - it felt like the pocket as a whole was caving in on him more often than not (on the few plays he went back to pass). That was starters against mostly backups. But, it's early and the offense is still working.
Actually good coverage of football is getting really tough to find, I watching Jeff Darlington talk about the Dolphins right now and he mentions Jonathan Martin/Left Tackles as our biggest concern if he was Joe Philbin. The entire time he's talking about that they show Cowboys highlights on offense. Why not show Martin struggling or other LT's struggling if that's what you want to talk about?! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
NFLN had a weird segment on this am called "My Name Is" about the top three players to keep your eyes on from the HOF Game... Two of which were Dolphins LMiller and CBumphis... http://www.nfl.com/videos/miami-dolphins/0ap2000000226725/Hello-My-Name-Is-Hall-of-Fame-Game-Edition
Evidently they were murdering him yesterday for his drop which turned into the pick-6 though. Funny how it was Phillip Tanner this year who was bouncing around and breaking tackles and big runs on us. Last year we played the Cowboys and it was Lance Dunbar who did that. Always gotta be someone when we play the Cowboys in preseason.
Well if CK, if it's like last year we will come out with a very stout run defense again, they came out of the gate on fire last year
Even though I flipped channels In the first quarter when I was watching this game, personally, he looked bad. I'm no scout or coach or player, but personally I think this guy has the homer glasses. Martin is bad in practice, was bad on Friday, and looks to be a bust. He can change this, but right now it's bad.
PFF gave a +0.5 to JM performance https://www.profootballfocus.com/bl...gn=refo-dolphins-vs-cowboys-hall-of-fame-game
Still feel it is very premature judging JMartin this early. Liked him coming out of college, he has done solid weight training in the offseason and bulked up to prepare for the LT position. He was a rookie last season so I give last year a pass, especially having to switch to the left side with four games left, while learning NFL speed and a new O-system. Add to that Mike Sherman recently admitted he threw way too much at the entire offense last season, I say give Martin some time this preseason to develop at LT. Not going to state how I think he performed vs. Dallas, I'm not as qualified as CK or DJ to do that, and I value both their opinions too much. But the fact their opinions seem to differ considerably on Martin tells me I'm right about us really needing to give Martin a few more games before we crucify or deify him. I am pretty certain Sherman, Philbin and Jim Turner all see what we see and more, so surely they are coaching Martin up. Ireland is scouring for a veteran backup LT and I don't see the need to panic just yet. I will admit Martin will be a big focus of mine watching the Jags game tonight. Which all of us will do as well, invigorating this thread I'm sure.
We have a pretty stout front 7... Hopefully that is more of the reason why Jmart hasnt looked great in practice.
Welcome to thePhins.com, glad to have you. Good post, you'll find great people and insightful analysis in here. We have some very intelligent football posters here who IMO consistently provide better analysis and intel than pretty much any football beat writers covering the Dolphins.
Seems a little premature to call Martin a bust. He certainly hasn't turned many on with his play so far, but this is his Sophomore year in the NFL, I suggest we give him a few more preseason games to see what he can do to improve, then crucify him Welcome to thePhins.com, we're glad you're here.
You catch any of the other pre-season games last night ck? Seemed to me a LOT of teams were missing tackles...like, all of them. EDIT: We missed 10, Cowboys missed 9.
Thanks. But learning for. The panthers with: Sione fua and jimmy clausen looked bad. Sione had no excuse, JC had David Carr syndrome, Clausen has improved some, but Fua hasn't improved, never will. Some guys aren't cut out for the nfl. You don't want to give up on a guy too quickly, but some guys just can't do it. Cut your losses, move on.
He had a very solid night against the Jags last night. If he continues to improve, and has another solid night next week against Houston, is he still a bust?
