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Brandon Marshall claims he didn't get good coaching in Miami.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/page/3/

    Brandon Marshall arrived in Miami in 2010 having had three straight 100-catch seasons in Denver. But he thought he could get better with the Dolphins.

    Unfortunately, it didn’t work that way. Marshall says that he didn’t get much coaching at all, as far as teaching him how to improve as a wide receiver, and for that matter he never had that in Denver, either.

    Whatta y'all think?
     
  2. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    [​IMG]
     
  3. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Is he wrong? When's the last time Miami had a good WR's coach.
     
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  4. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I said for years that Karl Doreell SUCKED as a WRs coach.

    He did ZILCH to develop any of our receivers.

    I wanted him fired years ago.

    While Brandon may be using this as an excuse, it's an excuse I happen to agree with very strongly.
     
  5. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

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    I think BM is the next TO. Whil he may be right he doesn't know when to shut up and it is always someone elses fault. If he has a mediocre season this year he will meltdown.
     
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  6. CD13

    CD13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And when Chicago releases him in 3 years they will suck too...
     
  7. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I think we can all agree the coaching on the offensive side of the ball for the last 4 years, not counting Chad Pennington's on the field coaching in 2008, has been one big pile of steaming dog ****.
     
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  8. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Translation: " Im Brandon Marshall. I taught myself everything I know. Im the best WR there is because of it, but I wanted to get better and Miami didnt teach me anything" Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... "

    Never thought I'd say it, but I'm glad this goof is gone. Go drop TD passes elsewhere. What were we supposed to do, teach you how to catch? As an NFL WR, that should be something you already know how to do. But, thanks for telling us something we already knew... Tony Sparano SUCKED.
     
  9. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I'll quote just about every NFL coach on this matter..."I don't talk about guys who are not here."
     
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  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Same marshall who claimed he slipped on a McDonald's bag when he hit someone?

    Marshall is the queen of "not my fault", he refuses to take responsibility for anything, refuses to even have the common courtesy to not talk poorly about former teams and lacks the desire to be a better Wr in the first place.

    I think we will miss his production, I won't miss him at all.
     
  11. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Some truth to what he said, but it's not the coaches fault he didn't catch 100 balls.....it's the QB's .:shifty:
     
  12. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    Physically gifted,mentally cookoo.I think it's best he take his talents to underachieve in Chicago and complain how the Bears are as stupid as the Dolphins and the Broncos.
     
  13. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    :deadhorse:

    he is gone let it go, the haters got their wish.....

    Miami's pass offense should and will be a juggernaut now...
     
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  14. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Dorrell was a fine coach IMO.
     
  15. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    Seems like he did do pretty good with the QB's last year, though.
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    A pro would look at it and improve their own problems first,ie, the drops, then look to other causes.

    This is typical BMarshall imo, "wahh, they did not coach me up! I made the pro bowl but they never coached me up!"

    Yeah yeah, bye bye
     
  17. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    He didnt seem to hurt Hartline or Bess's development. Its an excuse from Brandon, nothing more.
     
  18. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Easy out he had more than 100 catchable passes thrown at him.

    Edit just a laugh I typed Brandon Marshall stats in google and stabbed popped up before stat.

    To bad he didn't play the season like he did the pro bowl.
     
  19. Shamboubou

    Shamboubou Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he should have hired his own recieving coach like most WR's I'm the NFL. Chad Johnson hired his own coach, not sure why Marshall couldn't.
     
  20. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Let's let it go and move on. He's no longer a phin. F--- him.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's actually the first time I've heard a cross word about Karl Dorrell.
     
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  22. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    I've heard that Dorrell wanted nothing to do with him at the end, as in thank god I'm moving to coach the QB's. So, maybe there is something more to it - in terms of Marshall making it personal.
     
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  23. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Running out of bounds... Seemingly batting passes down... Yup, coaching.
     
  24. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not only did Marshall publicly call out teammates - several times, now he called out coaches. Through all of this exists very little personal accountability.

    I was upset when we traded him, but in hindsight, I would do the move any day and twice on Sundays.
     
  25. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Disagree. Not good at UCLA. Useless with wideouts in Miami.

    He failed to develop about a dozen guys at all. The only decent receivers, bess and Marshall, were already
    Good when they showed up and showed no appreciable improvement under Dorrell.

    If a WR was already good they stayed good. If they had potential they didn't develop.

    I do not consider that "a fine coach". Teams with that sort of coaching lose to teams who develop their talent.
     
  26. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Perhaps he's an agreeable fellow, nice personality. Unfortunately that doesn't equate to developing receivers and getting results.

    Of course it may be the talent he was given (or lack thereof) but I don't think you can entirely lay things there.

    I do agree that Marshall is using this as an excuse. I just happen to agree with the excuse he chose.
     
  27. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Entirely possible. You know it could be that Brandon is being a blaming little ***** who is avoiding accountability because he had issues with Karl.... But it's also possible Karl didn't teach him much.

    They aren't mutually exclusive.
     
  28. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I'm sure Dorrell has some stories.
     
  29. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Which one? :lol:

    Maybe he gets one for each personality.
     
  30. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Coaching doesnt come into it when you catch a ball down the sideline and go out of bounds with the endzone saying "welcome!". He is a good player. He's gone now. Moving on......
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I heard that as well, that Dorrell hates Marshall.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I guess your opinion is testament how there's multiple ways to see everything.

    Personally, I look at it this way:

    1. Davone Bess was a UDFA with 4.7 speed that nobody in the league wanted badly enough to draft, and now he's known as one of the best slot receivers in the league. He did not take a step forward when Dorrell moved to QB Coach, in fact you could argue he took a step backward. He went from 800+ receiving yards and 5 TDs to 537 receiving yards and 3 TDs. He went from 6.9 yards per attempt so 6.8 yards per attempt, 1.76 yards per pass snap to 1.32 yards per pass snap. He also fumbled the ball twice.

    2. Greg Camarillo caught for 1165 yards over the 2008 and 2009 seasons under Dorrell. Since then he's got 361 yards in 2010 and 2011 with Minnesota.

    3. He actually got 1281 receiving yards out of Ted freaking Ginn over the 2008 and 2009 seasons. Since leaving Miami, he's gained 394 receiving yards over the 2010 and 2011 seasons.

    4. He developed Brian Hartline, who caught 1121 yards and 4 TDs in only 657 pass snaps over the 2009 and 2010 seasons. That's 1.71 yards per pass snap. In 2011, that dropped to 1.21 yards per pass snap.

    5. I believe he gets half the credit for developing Anthony Armstrong, who spent two training camps with Karl Dorrell versus one training camp spent with the Redskins before breaking out for damn near 900 yards receiving in 2010.

    Really the only negative thing anyone can say is that Brandon Marshall produced better in 2011 than 2010. To that I would point to the obvious bad relationship between Marshall and Dorrell, which I think we all probably know had much more to do with Marshall than Dorrell, as well as all the training that Marshall went through prior to the 2011 season to slim down, lose weight and get faster.

    But Brandon Marshall also had markedly better quarterback play in 2011 than 2010. And...well, coincidence of coincidences, who moved over to coaching the quarterbacks and got noticeably better play out of even Chad Henne compared with how he played in 2009-2010 under David Lee? That would be Karl Dorrell. So perhaps Dorrell should be credited with Marshall's improvement in 2011, too.
     
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  33. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm sorry CK but the part I bolded reinforces our opinion. His yardage per attempt barely nudged so that explains the rest of his numbers. There were less attempts to Bess.

    Camarillo and Ginn, well that just reinforces your theme about our WRs. They suck everywhere else but here because our WR corps are so bad. That's why we signed Ocho. Take a #4 receiver from another team, make them the #1 here and he may catch 1,000 yards. Ted Ginn's 1281 yards, 800 were in one year. When he went to SF, well aside from us they have a terrible passing offense. I mean, Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree can't even sniff 1000 yards. Guess whos ranked one spot better in passing? Minnesota lol.

    Their last season here we ranked 10. Do we chalk that #10 ranking to Chad, or the excellent coached WRs? :pointlol:
     
  34. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I think Bess and Hartline were both developed rather well.

    I don't agree with Bess showing up as good as he produced. The transition is much to big for the WR position.
     
  35. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like he could also be slinging mud at Sparano, salvaging a career from the pile of rubble, and failed infrastructure, bulldozed from the premises.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's always speaking fondly of Sparano Cal.
     
  37. sloppyjoer

    sloppyjoer New Member

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    Who cares about the Pro Bowl? Big deal. Relaxed D's, chill environment, all fun. For cripe sakes, Dilfer coulda made this POS look like a stud in that. Glad yer gone BM, good riddance.
     
  38. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Good points, Chris. And I am always careful about attributing all of a WRs performance to any one factor since things like changes in offensive focus, QB play, role in the offense etc can muddy the waters when 'blaming' a WRs coach for the performances on the field on Sundays.

    Here's my perception of your points:

    1) When I watched Bess in Hawaii's offense, I saw a very talented pass catcher whom scouts wouldn't like because he didn't have all the template desirables (as you're pointing out). While college stats mean next to nothing, and Hawaii had a pass first and pass often offense to skew the numbers, Bess set NCAA records for catches and yards over a three year period, I believe. Beyond that, he passed the eye test with flying colors for me. He had no long speed bu t he excelled at finding the right spot and getting the right body positioning to beat defenders for the catch. The only thing I hated (and still dislike) was a propensity to leave the ground and leap slightly for almost every catch whether he needed to or not. It hurt his ability to cut after the catch (though perhaps helped him concentrate on the catch). His status as a UDFA said more to me about mis-assessment and misuse of templates by scouts instead of eyeballs with talented players. You know more about that process than I do but I don'tthink Bess came in with UDFA talent then was turned into a great receiver by Dorrell. I think the NFL scouting system didn't fairly assess Bess' NFL impact. Bess had caught so many balls in college you could argue he wasq way ahead of the curve compared to most rookie receivers. As regards Dorrell moving to QB coach and the impact on Bess, wasn't that the season we all agreed Sparano was crazy not to be targeting Bess more? I ought the boards were rife with agreement that Bess was being drastically under-targeted in the passing game. Perhaps I'm recollecting improperly as I've put a lot of effort into washing the memory of the last few seasons from my frontal lobe. Bess had immense talent and uncommon experience for a WR and UDFA. More a credit to Ireland than Dorrell.

    2) In Camarillo I saw a crips route runner who cut well and had sure hands. Before and after Dorrell. Camarillo was 'discovered' or rescued from obscurity on the bench thanks to that OT winner against the Ravens. Can we say his production jump asn't simply because he finally got snaps and targeted a lot.... Until Bess arrived and flourished and made Cammy expendable? I see this less as skill development and more as a function of how much field time he got. The tricky thing is... You can't know if part of *why* he got more field time was because his skills developed (which would be partially due to Dorrell), but I do not think so and stand behind Dorrell not giving Camarillo any demonstrable skill I hadn't seen in him already. Can't speak to Camarillos role in Minny, but its a fair point you make there.

    3) This may be the one point I can concede, though Ginn was a first roundr who was featured and designed to get the ball to as a major part of the gameplans here at first. In San Fran he didn't enjoy the same status and I'd be surprised IDE as much effort and intention was expended on making sure he got the same offensive attempts his direction. I still loathe Touchless Tackle Ted.

    4) Hartline's numbers increased then dropped, but i am not convinced that it was due to his WR coaching. The qualities and skills I saw from him in Ohio mirrored what he did here: crafty off the press (one of our best at beating press to the outside as a rookie that I'd seen in years), good route runner with a real ability to find a vertical seam. I did see his hands, sideline awareness and deep ball leaping ability improve but was it experience or Dorrell's tutelage? The Hartline I saw in college already looked it he part and I feel like he improved as you would expect with game time and practice reps even with average coaching. Did he suddenly become a drastically better receiver once Karl Dorrell got ahold of him? No. Has anyone done that with Karl? No. Where you make me question my position is in Hartline's 2011 drop off. Were there other reasons and factors? Again I have to say I don't remember the season well enough for a rebuttal. I'll look into it. But I promise you, if you factually make me give up my hatred of Karl Dorrell (scourge of UCLA) then I will have to hate you for it instead. :

    5) Decent point.

    Agree about BMarsh and Dorrell potentially being less about technical coaching and possibly about personalities. But BM happened to voice something I agree with so I've jumped under the aegis of his statement to wage my war of wideouts against Karl the Janitor, I mean Karl Dorrell. I actually think BMarsh getting mental health treatment helped him more in 2011 than people realize. Sadly it was not sustainable.

    Look if a Gates, or Hagan, or London or any young guy had shown up deficient in a particular skill set then gotten GOOD at it, I would credit Dorrell. If a guy clearly sucks against press coverage as a rookie but is good against the jam by year three then I'll give credit to his WR coach (and or steroids and the weight room).

    Our whole discussion is kind of a phantom one in that we can't isolate variables, but doing the best we can I just don't buy into the notion that Dorrell was a factor in any WR's improvement beyond how they showed up. The numbers that went up spoke less to skill sets and more to other factors (QB, role, etc) or experience (you expect any player to improve at least slightly with experience, don't you, as a baseline? But a WRs coach's job is for them to far out-develop that curve... Like a portfolio should far outgrow the inflation rate).

    Whether Karl can coach QBs well I have no opinion of. Maybe he can do that better than he develops receiver talent... Or should I say *doesn't* develop receiver talent. :)
     
  39. DaFish

    DaFish Well-Known Member

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    Miami fans claim they didn't get a good receiver. So there.

    Sent from my Cappy Glide. The red headed step child of the Samsung family.
     
  40. jsizzle

    jsizzle Banned

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    Maybe if he learns to catch TDs his opinion would matter.
     

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