Bikini-clad strippers protest church in rural Ohio

AbideN703 · Sep 1, 2010

Always wanted to go to Cedar Point. I'll probably head over there next year

Dol-Fan Dupree · Sep 1, 2010

Ohiophinphan said:

I was out of town from early Thursday until late last night so I made a quick remark last evening and a longer one today after a night's sleep.

This story has been going on for some time and frankly it has become annoying so my first response probably reflected that. I have met both principals and frankly didn't much care for either on a personal level and that too showed up in my first response.

But your questions/comments (and Brother Padre has stepped up as well) are germain to a good public debate so I will try to ignore my feeling about the individuals and step up.

I probably would not conduct a protest in this fashion but I do understand it. A Christian's view of sex businesses is that they are an infection to an area. Police statistics tend to support such a view. Drugs, crime, prostitution, abusive behaviors are generally higher. We would not want to see families or individuals harmed in such ways. Try and explain to a child what or why clubs like that are doing and you understand the dilemma.

My take would be to try and force them out because no one in my area would WANT to patronize such an establishment. Explotation of women and objectification of sex to me is a wrong and thus I would speak against it.

Is it "blackmail" or "extortion"? Not in a legal sense no, but I understand someone calling it that. I think people should be prepared to accept the consequences of their actions. If your family, your employer, your...whatever doesn't want you in such a place and you go...then be prepared that is a cost of doing business. Again, I would not have done things this way but I do understand long term, peaceful protests in an effort to achieve some gain. You could change accountants and you don't have to patronize such an establishment.

This again to me is a minor, sideshow within a community. I am glad it is not mine.
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Talking to your children sucks, doesn't it? Having to explain the world to them and expand their minds. Poor parents.

Dol-Fan Dupree · Sep 1, 2010

BigDogsHunt said:

Ding, Ding, Ding - exactly...and the flip of that is....if you or no one else associated with you is concerned with you patronizing such a club....there can be no blackmail or extortion.

Picture taking, verbal labels, etc - its hot air and wasted effort - attempted blackmail or extortion at best and that's the Law Enforcement/DA's call only - and since none of the photo taking has led to any prosecution it seems the authorities do not view it as such either.

Guilt over ones actions are personal. So-called "Sins of the vice nature" are the territory/jurisdiction of the Church at its core and have been thru millennium. If you patronize this club and personally dont view it as a sin, then you have nothing to feel guilty about. Thus those pictures of license plates are useless and childish at best. And if you do, then you know you are in the wrong. Cant have it both ways.

That doesn't mean the Church or this congregation still wont try to convince you its a sin, or call you out on it, if you also feel its a sin or feel guilty over being "caught". As you stated that's clearly at the core of what a Church adds to "community" as a whole - they are a litmus test to removing vice from ones life. Always has regardless of denomination...but they cant control ones guilty feelings. At best they can attempt to label it...which isn't the same at a personal level.

Again, totally agree both sides are silly and foolish in their actions, even if in some small way, both feel its in their right or responsibility to act and protest each other accordingly.
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It is actions like these that make me happy I am not a Christian.

I do agree that it is up to the individual, however no one likes a snitch. This is the type of action that steers people away from the church or brings them back due to feeling shame. Which also seems like such a horrible reason to follow a religion.

VanDolPhan · Sep 1, 2010

padre31 said:

Then why haven't they been charged with a crime?

What would they have to worry about if they are doing nothing wrong FinD?

How about..because it isn't blackmail?
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Maybe because no one has pressed the issue with the law because they would be seen as a perv attacking a church.

The only thing I see different between this and the guy who got arrested for blackmailing David Lettermen is money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackmail

Blackmail is the act of threatening to reveal substantially true information about a person to the public, a family member, or associates unless a demand is met. This information is usually of an embarrassing, socially damaging, and/or incriminating nature. As the information is substantially true, the act of revealing the information may not be criminal in its own right nor amount to a civil law defamation; it is the making of demands in exchange for withholding the information that is often considered a crime.
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The unfortunate part is the grey areas of law when it comes to blackmail. Basically if they had asked for money instead of sending it to their family it'd be a crime. I personally don't see a difference in either...both should be illegal quite frankly.

RickyBobby · Sep 2, 2010

padre31 said:

So says the Atheist...
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what a lazy argument. If you were to read his post its true and you just brush it off as some athiest.

But I guess that is the Christian thing to do

Two Tacos · Jan 15, 2011

I'm not sure that what they are doing is legal. We do have some privacy rights when it comes to license plate data.

From the Drivers Privacy Protection Act.

http://www.accessreports.com/statutes/DPPA1.htm

(1) For use by any government agency, including any court or law enforcementagency, in carrying out its functions, or any private person or entity acting on behalf of aFederal, State, or local agency in carrying out its functions.

(2) For use in connection with matters of motor vehicle or driver safety and theft;motor vehicle emissions; motor vehicle product alterations, recalls, or advisories;performance monitoring of motor vehicles, motor vehicle parts and dealers; motorvehicle market research activities, including survey research; and removal of non-ownerrecords from the original owner records of motor vehicle manufacturers.

(3) For use in the normal course of business by a legitimate business or its agents, employees, or contractors, but only --

(A) to verify the accuracy of personal information submitted by the individual to the business or its agents, employees, or contractors; and

(B) if such information as so submitted is not correct or is no longer correct, to obtain the correct information, but only for the purposes of preventing fraud by, pursuing legal remedies against, or recovering on a debt or security interest against, the individual.

(4) For use in connection with any civil, criminal, administrative, or arbitralproceeding in any Federal, State, or local court or agency or before any self-regulatorybody, including the service of process, investigation in anticipation of litigation, and theexecution or enforcement of judgments and orders, or pursuant to an order of a Federal,State, or local court.

(5) For use in research activities, and for use in producing statistical reports, solong as the personal information is not published, redisclosed, or used to contactindividuals.

(6) For use by any insurer or insurance support organization, or by a self-insuredentity, or its agents, employees, or contractors, in connection with claims investigationactivities, anti-fraud activities, rating or underwriting.

(7) For use in providing notice to the owners of towed or impounded vehicles.

(8) For use by any licensed private investigative agency or licensed securityservice for any purpose permitted under this subsection.

(9) For use by an employer or its agents or insurer to obtain or verify informationrelating to a holder of a commercial driver's license that is required under theCommercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 (49 U.S.C. App. 2710 et seq.).

(10) For use in connection with the operation of private toll transportationfacilities.

(11) For any other use in response to requests for individual motor vehiclerecords if the motor vehicle department has provided in a clear and conspicuous manneron forms for issuance or renewal of operator's permits, titles, registrations, oridentification cards, notice that personal information collected by the department may bedisclosed to any business or person, and has provided in a clear and conspicuousmanner on such forms an opportunity to prohibit such disclosures.

(12) For bulk distribution for surveys, marketing or solicitations if the motorvehicle department has implemented methods and procedures to ensure that --

(A) individuals are provided an opportunity, in a clear and conspicuousmanner, to prohibit such uses; and

(B) the information will be used, rented, or sold solely for bulkdistribution for surveys, marketing, and solicitations, and that surveys,marketing, and solicitations will not be directed at those individuals who haverequested in a timely fashion that they not be directed at them.

(13) For use by any requester, if the requester demonstrates it has obtained thewritten consent of the individual to whom the information pertains.

(14) For any other use specifically authorized under the law of the State thatholds the record, if such use is related to the operation of a motor vehicle or publicsafety.

(c) Resale or Redisclosure -- An authorized recipient of personal information (except arecipient under subsection (b)(11) or (12)) may resell or redisclose the information only for a usepermitted under subsection (b) (but not for uses under subsection (b)(11) or (12)). An authorizedrecipient under subsection (b)(11) may resell or redisclose personal information for any purpose. An authorized recipient under subsection (b)(12) may resell or redisclose personal informationpursuant to subsection (b)(12). Any authorized recipient (except a recipient under subsection(b)(11)) that resells or rediscloses personal information covered by this title must keep for aperiod of 5 years records identifying each person or entity that receives information and thepermitted purpose for which the information will be used and must make such records availableto the motor vehicle department upon request.

(d) Waiver Procedures -- A State motor vehicle department may establish and carry outprocedures under which the department or its agents, upon receiving a request for personalinformation that does not fall within one of the exceptions in subsection (b), may mail a copy ofthe request to the individual about whom the information was requested, informing suchindividual of the request, together with a statement to the effect that the information will not bereleased unless the individual waives such individual's right to privacy under this section.
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I don't see where harassing strip club patrons falls as a permissible use for license plate information. Of course laws are only as strong as their enforcement.

Ohiophinphan · Jan 15, 2011

Why the bump? This was a tempedt in a teapot last summer when it happened?

Two Tacos · Jan 15, 2011

Ohiophinphan said:

Why the bump? This was a tempedt in a teapot last summer when it happened?
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Just read it the thread and didn't think the overall debate was out of date, even if the specific issue was.

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