Best Qb in the AFC east

Burress' TD was with 35 seconds remaining.

It was 29 seconds they had, not 25 or 55.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playb...by_play&season=2007&week=POST21&override=true

 

They also had three timeouts, I remember now. The timeouts are why I say they had time to throw a few medium length, possibly 20 yard passes and set up for the field goal.

 

They threw one bomb I believe, and then he got sacked. Gamecenter says sacked for 10 yards. So it's 3rd and 20. You cant' do anythnig there but throw it deep twice.

 

They threw a bomb, and he got sacked on another play he was setting up to throw another bomb.

I'm not saying it's his fault, my point is that he didn't win the game. One player CANT it takes so much more. Including playcalling.

Why didn't Brady win that game? His defense let him down, it happens to even the best. That is my point that I'm making. No one player wins a game.

 

I thought it was a holding call but you're right, it was a sack. The Offensive Line was giving him no time there, Alex.

 

But one player can have a bigger outcome than the most. In Brady's case, usually he has the biggest positive while in Manning's case he has the biggest negative. He chokes every single time. He himself. Not his Offensive Line or his Defense. And yes we all know he didn't have the 85 Bears defense behind him, nor did Brady, but Manning has been put in several of situations to win and he didn't do it.

Where as in Brady's case its shocking if he loses, its shocking if Manning wins. When it comes to playoff time, of course.

 

Just because his line didn't let him down doesn't mean his receivers didn't. Why is it HIM that choked is my point. What if the right plays weren't being called? Etc. Of course he gets some of the blame, maybe even most. But anytime you say a player choked, to me it implies you expect him to carry a team to victory that isnt fair.

I wasnt talking about Manning anyway though, I was talking about Marino and a comment made earlier. I'm sure Marino had a few bad playoff games, but overall he played well and lost.

 

Brady is almost as accurate as Pennington yet has the ability to fire it into tight places and with accuracy downfield. Brady is a bit more mobile. And I would say he is at least as good a decision maker as Pennington, if not better. I think the Ravens game was a good indicator of why Pennington isn't as good as Brady. I think Brady can get flustered when he is pressured like Pennington was in that game. But Brady can stick a throw downfield when he has to. Pennington didn't seem to be able to do that. That inability to stretch the field and to stay healthy for most of his career is why I think Brady is better.

 

HAHA!! Thai Jet can be annoying. He never adds anything productive and always goes out of his way to bash the "trolls" or fans of the opposing teams.
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If you look at Mannings and Brady's playoff stats, Brady isn't blowing manning away. Their almost similar. Brady just had the better defense, the system, and of course Adam Vinatieri. It's like Bill Walsh's comment about Marino and Montana. That comment says it all about Brady and Manning.

Really quick thing I have to add. How is Adam Vinatieri such a winner? I mean, he's a damn kicker. He wins 3 rings with NE, leaves them, goes to Indy and wins another ring. Wow.

 

manning= marino
brady= montana

 

God loves Adam Vinatieri.
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Isn't being optimistic a hell of a lot more fun?

IMO, It sure beats looking silly when someone matter of factly states we will not make the playoffs as some on this board did last year. It was probably a safe prediction at the time, but it was still wrong.

 

You can argue Manning > Marino, he has a ring and will end up breaking much of Marino's records.

Personally, I would say Marino, but I'm bias.

 

I don't think it's all that bias to say Marino was a better QB than Manning. Manning is great, but he never put up Marino-like numbers until the rule change affecting contact DBs can have with WRs. It's no coincidence that he broke Marino's single season TD record the year the rule change took affect.

Unfortunately that rule change has had such a huge affect on the face of the NFL that many QBs will put up numbers similar to Marino as the NFL continues to evolve into a pass first league. We just have to remember Marino did it when it was astonishing to record those types of numbers.

 

Don't forget, the new db rules are called, by me, the Peyton Wine Rules. They only came about because of his whining a few years back. So I dislike him even more, because without them, Marino's single season TD record doesn't get broken, and yet even with the rules they only get broken by 1 and 2 TDs.

People call Brady arrogant, but why? It's because he's so smug. But that's because we have so many situations where Brady is explaining why they won (and we hate that). All I can remmeber with Peyton is whining. Because he's not clutch.

yes football is a team sport. yes you can't win it by yourself. But it's lazy to not analyze the game and see how and why they won.

I take Brady because, he's shown he can win. Peyton save for one year where he played terribly throughout the playoffs has not shown he can win. He had a QBR of 71 and 39 to lead off his 2006 run. 3 TDs and 7 INTs. That is not winning. That is your team winning despite you.

 

Until I see what Brady can do after surgury, I go with Penne.

 

This shouldnt even be a debate.

 

Because of a few bad games from time to time now suddenly the Colts win despite Peyton? You've got to be kidding me. They're not even a playoff team without him. Peyton, except for the time he won, has not shown he can win. That's all luck. Nevermind the tuck rule and all of the last second game winning FGs that went in New England's favor. I suppose those were kicked by Tom Brady. Tom Brady also held back the greatest show on turf. Brady led off his 2003 campaign with a stomping at the hands of the mighty Buffalo Bills. In 2004 in December he couldnt' take care of a terrible Dolphins team. The Pats must have won despite him as well.

And I am in complete and utter shock that Dolphins fans are running with the whole "QBs are measured by Super Bowl wins thing." If anybody should know that it takes more than a great QB to win it should be a Dolphins fan.

 

Manning did the same thing VS Brady in AFC champ game after the defense spotted him a 3TD lead? And when he has his last chance he throws a pick to sanders.
Lets not blow this out of proportion. Brady is not untouchable. That AFCC game was the perfect example.

 

Objectivity says Brady, hands down!

The man has the stats and the rings that no one in the AFC East can touch. While I think Penny is perfect for our team at this stage, while a "Brady" type QB probably wouldn't have had the success he did last year, there really can't be a comparison when answers a limited question such as this.

 

This is not an argument I came up in a vacuum muscle. It's in response to your "peyton won more recently than Brady." argument. And then also the argument of who had better stats in the playoffs.

I pointed out that those first two games in the playoffs the colts won despite Peyton. Are you debating that? And while I point out those first two games YOU expanded it to the above statement. Nice.

His game against KC was ok save for 3 INts. his game against Balt was downright nasty.

 

Nobody said he was untouchable. Man you guys like to expand our statements don't you.

Nobody is saying Manning sucks either.

The question is, who would you pick to be your QB. For me, it's Brady and Peyton isn't even close. Peyton is far far ahead of everyone else, but it's Brady with no hesitation.

 

And for me it isn't.
It depends on the situation. I believe that Brady is a better "team player" But as a pure QB, I believe Manning is head and shoulders above anybody in the league right now.
When it 4th and 15 with the game on the line, and I get to hand pick a QB (not a team, but QB) to throw a post route, I would go with Manning.

 

I just feel manning with the better personnel has failed more times in those 4th and 15 situations than Brady has. Brady has led some pitiful personnel through his years. And when they went out and grabbed him some WRs his first year he goes and passes Manning all time second best TD record (dan's 48 still stands for me)

 

Somebody brought that up.
He had 182 more attempts.
Or something like that.
Oh..and he had the best #1 deep and #1 slot guy.

 

I'm not even going to bother to vote because I can't stomach making the selection of he who shall not be named.

bleh. super model humping anus.

 

First of all I don't even weigh Super Bowl victories in a QB debate, a point I've made abundantly clear. When others cling to that talking point like a life preserver I don't have a problem pointing out that Manning has won it more recently. To me though it means just about nothing in determining who is better. When people keep going on with, "Brady is better than Manning, he has all the rings, he wins in the playoffs." Well if you want to use that logic fine, but using it there is no other conclusion to come to than that since 2005 Manning is the better QB. Based on that argument. Those are not the reasons I'd pick Peyton but if one insists on using rings then I guess I'd also rather have Peyton right now.

What's particularly nice is condeming Peyton for sloppy performances while ignoring the fact that Brady needed the tuck rule just to get his run started. He basically allowed a game losing turnover that was overturned b/c of a ******ed NFL rule. So it looks like the Colts aren't the only team advancing through the playoffs despite their QB. Don't even get me started on spygate. For all we know the Pats deserved none of those Lombardis.

 

I think we've given Brady way to much credit for what is a team sport and on a team that, may I remind you, held it own last year with a guy named Cassel that has been nothing more than a backup his whole life.

I voted for Penny and going by last years preformance he was head and shoulders above brady in 08. As for this coming season I want to see Tom operate under the gun, so to speak, before I crown him King of the Hill. If he wins no more games than Cassel did last year then, for me, it just goes to show how good Billycheat is!!!

 

THe ring deal is irrelevant IMO.
However, Manning has all the tools IMO.
Passing prowess of Marino and the quick read ability but he also takes pride in mastering the play action pass game which Marino hated to deal with. Manning is Marino but more complete.

He'll own Favres records as well.

 

First, off, if we're getting into rules, how are you going to bring up an existing rule. Works well if that was his only superbowl. But he has 3. Manning one. Does that take anything away from Manning? no. He earned that 1.

I never condemned him for sloppy performances. While rebutting other people's arguments about weighing super bowl performances you bring up the fact that he has won more recently. I.e., you jumped in the fray. You could have just said, "i don't weigh superbowl performances" and left it at that, but since you added your 2 cents, you have to be able to discuss it.

So I bring up those performances. Nobody has condemned him to mediocrity. I think he's a wonderful QB. yes he's won the super bowl more recently Brady is more clutch, he's won more (yes he has you can't take that away) he's been better lately (2007) and hasn't been knocked out in the first round twice like Manning.

Manning was wonderful last year coming off his surgery. I would never ever hesitate to take him as my QB. But he's number 2, Brady #1. brady has that quality that makes him better. he wills his team to win like I've never seen. I hate him so much because he is so good. As a dolphins fan, if the game is on the line, I'd rather face Peyton than Brady. even with Harrison and Wayne and all those weapons, the colts just never had that feeling of infallibility.

Even in that game where they went head to head, with the Patriots down 20-10, and me signing my whole life away in a faustian deal so Indy can ruin the patriots perfect season, Brady leads the team to two TDs in the 4th quarter. and when Manning got the ball back with 3:15 left, did anyone else feel the same as me? That Manning was NOT going to score? More often than not, he doesn't.

 

Lets not forget they took a 5 game step back without Brady eh? That doesn't count for anything.

Did you just say Penny was better than Brady was in 2008? Brady went out with an injury. Not high praise for Penny to say he was better than nothing ...

 

Well Manning has had a very powerfull Offensive team...but as the ole saying goes...

Defenses WIn Championships...

NE has had the better of the two for almost a decade now...

NE D's has ranked in the TOP 10 in Yds and Points (at the same time) 5 times since 2000, while Peytons Colts D has been in the Top 10 only twice...

and the only time Peyton made it there and won the Super Bowl... he won it based on his Defense...

He played poorly in his Post Season games that year... just look at his stats in the 3 games before the SB....2 TDs and 6 INTs... with a QBR of 63... and this includes a good game against the Pats for the Conference Championship...

The WC and Division games before the Pats he had combine 1 TD and 5 INTs with a 53 QBR...

Now I don't have anything against Peyton, he seems to me a better passer than Brady, but don't cut him down because he has not had the Defense nor the D-Genious that Brady has had all these years...

 

Dolphin-D will make ground meat out of the opposition QB's in the AFC East
Dolphins have arguably the best QB Stable in the NFL