Best Qb in the AFC east

Well Ive always thought that the Herm Edwards years were very much like our Dave Wannestedt years. I think Mangini hit on a couple of picks, like Saban, but he never really improved the Jets all that much. I think Mangini was alot like Saban as a draft evaluator. Some hits, but alot of misses.

 

Mostly 1st round hits, then again, its the 1st round, you should be able to evaluate a top 32 player.

at Wanny and Herm. What two buffons.

 

What are you asking me for? I think he's a better QB, period. In basically every way. I suspect if you looked at their stats since 01 they would reflect that.

 

Those of you who think New England won all of those Super Bowls just because Tom Brady is so awesome explain why they lost after his best season ever. [It was his best season by a wide margin]

 

Statistics do not tell the entire story.

Playoff W's and Super Bowl's SHOULD tell a huge role. How they perform in the postseason or whenever the game is on the line should reflect on who the better player is, as well as the fact that Brady has had to do it with less around him than Manning. Much, much less, until 2007.

 

Talking bout Marino/Montana bud.

 

cuz bellichick couldnt cheat for the SB

and because the Giants D played lights out in the 2nd half..

 

Offensive Line wasn't good enough to stop the Giants and even then it took a lucky heave & catch on the helmet for the Giants to have a chance to win.

Think about that one. The luckiest play in NFL history had to occur.

 

LOL.

Rings are better than stats buddy.
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The NE OL couldn't stop the Giants passrush, and even then the game came right down to the wire.

 

Didn't Marino have a pair of two stud young receivers? Duper & Clayton were their names maybe? I forget.

 

By that token Patrick Ewing sucked as a C

 

Less? Really? That's just not true. Brady had the most important element which was an outstanding defense and outstanding coaching behind him. Peyton's defenses almost always sucked. When Brady finally got an offense that compared to Peyton's he lost the Super Bowl. And the defense had clearly declined. Still waiting on someone to explain that one to me. Brady had his best season ever. So under your logic they should have easily won the Super Bowl. Or Brady is now a playoff choker meaning he can't possibly be the best in the league. Which is it?

 

Every team cheats to some degree, the Pats made the mistake of getting caught.

 

Did you watch Super Bowl 42? The Patriots Offensive Line was putrid and it took the luckiest play/catch in NFL history to occur for the Giants to win. It isn't like the Giants drove down the field and won this game by 17. No. It took a lucky escape from 4 Defensive Lineman and a heave that was caught on a 5th string Wide Receivers helmet for the Giants to be put in position to win.

1 Playoffs loss doesn't make you a choker. Losing in the Divisional Round year after year after year after year after year, like Peyton, does. His defense was oustanding in 2006. Outstanding. He played 1 good half of football that postseason.

 

No. Stats are important as well. It's just championships are more important.
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Why does that stuff matter? Apparently quarterbacks win super bowls and Brady had his best season ever. I'm not following this here. So the 49ers defense isn't an excuse for Marino, the NE defense isn't an excuse for Peyton but an overwhelming defense is just a fine excuse for Tom Brady?

 

Its different when it happens once as opposed to every single season.

And none of those teams had the pass rush the Giants did that postseason, nor did they have a lucky heave & throw and catch on 5th string wide receivers helmet. None.

It took a miracle for the Giants to win. It didn't take a miracle for Marino and Elway to lose every single year all those years.

 

Then I guess Marino was a bum and Namath is the better QB out of two.

 

They lost a chance to make history on the biggest stage ever. That was the equivalent of about 20 playoff losses. Are you kidding me? They were rolling over the entire league before that. Let's just forget it ever happened.

 

At the time when he played vs the (as you insist) the best QB and best WR ever, yes he did. But not for rest of his career.
For rest of his career he had no idea what a running game was, and what a defense not giving up 35 in a half looked like. And he still, week after week, month after month, year after year won games by himself. Its funny how Bill Walsh, the dude who pretty much created Montana in to who he was said...well, we all know what he said.

 

Brady hasn't actually won a Super Bowl since 2004. He's lost in the postseason for three straight seasons. It's not just one isolated incident. It's been happening consistently now. Peyton has actually won more recently than he has. So now maybe Peyton is actually better in that respect as well.

 

Just going to say it again, no one player not even a QB wins a game alone. If a QB puts up good playoff stats but his team loses, he is no worse than a player who puts up good stats and wins.

 

Good to see somebody sees the light here.

 

Yeah, Peyton has been rolling over everyone in the playoffs. He can't beat the damn Chargers. You're contradicting yourself.
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Am I? When Peyton won his Super Bowl, one of the teams he went through was Brady's. So recent trends point to Peyton obviously being better. He's won more recently and actually eliminated Brady in doing it. Care to address that? Also luck? Because the vibe I'm getting is the only way Brady loses is when the other team gets really lucky.

 

Yes, you are contradicting yourself. Peyton beat Brady ONCE in the playoffs. Congrats to him!! What was it, his fourth attempt? Then when Brady isn't even there in the playoffs, he loses to the 8-8 Chargers. The year before that? He loses to the Chargers, who went on to get beaten by Brady. He hasn't done **** recently, just lose in his first game in the playoffs.

I'm not sure where you're going with this...
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He's done more than Brady in recent years, which is he's won a Super Bowl. That is crystal clear. You can try to bend and distort all you want but that is indisputable. Did Elway's past matter when he finally won the big game? Not really. The Colts had no business in the postseason last year. They were only there b/c of how good Peyton is. Even with a knee that was giving him problems.

My point has always been that a QB should not get so much credit for a team winning a super bowl. I've presented several FACTS that support the idea that it takes a lot more than that. Quarterbacks play well and lose in the postseason all the time. It's just one cog in the machine of an NFL team. An important one but it still can't operate alone. It seems the more gaudy Brady's numbers become, the more consecutive seasons the Pats fall short. He was efficient before and they were winning big. He was calm, cool, and collect for sure. But they won because he made plays when he needed to and he was efficient above all else. Yes he was clearly above average but he also wasn't threatening passing records. And they also won because the defense was outstanding to compliment the efficient offense. They weren't blowing anybody away, they just got it done, winning rings with game winning FGs.

Also how so many forget that Super Bowl number one was only possible b/c of the stupid tuck rule. I guess that non called turnover was part of the Brady greatness as well.

 

Possibly. I remember reading this and I found it really interesting; the year after Carson Palmer left USC, Cassel, John David Booty and Matt Leinart were competing for the starting spot and Cassel outplayed the two but was not named starter - it was Leinart - because Leinart made less questionable decisions or something along those lines. Leinart was taken tenth overall. Could Cassel have been in that same position?

I agree with you on the fact that Tom Brady is underrated by some as a player. I think he's got good qualities but I think he's a product of a very intelligent coaching staff. I've always said that you can take a guy at the quarterback position in the later rounds and build around him, specifically his strengths. If the guy has a weak arm, you can build a short passing game like Bill Walsh did with guys like Ken Anderson and Joe Montana for example. Or if he has a big arm and good deep accuracy, you can build your offense up as a consistent vertical threat by adding guys that can stretch the field well. I think Tom Brady falls into that area as well. He's improved since he came out - or so it seems from the scouting reports that I read when he was first graded - but I do think the offense is build around his strengths. How difficult is his job? I mean, he's had a pretty solid offensive line for a while, he had a run game that featured Antwoin Smith and Kevin Faulk - not big names but they were a good duo that gave roughly 600 yards each - he has good pocket presence, I'll give him that, but his offense is simplified to the point where its basically hit the open receiver on the under route. I haven't noticed a complex offense in New England for Tom Brady, in fact to the contrary, very vanilla and basic but I might be wrong here.

When it comes to improving his teammates, I wonder if he is making them better or is it the system? Take Deion Branch for example. He was a terrific wide receiver in New England. He's a good talent, he went pretty early when he came out of the draft, and he was productive in New England. Now he's gone on to Seattle, with another pretty damn good and underrated QB in Matt Hasselbeck - another system guy IMO - and he's had success when healthy. His first year in Seattle, he had nearly 50 receptions and 700 yards in eleven games.

 

Please be respectful to all members, regardless of which team the yell for on Sunday. If you can't be respectful, then warnings, and points will be given.

 

Are you talking about something specifically? I thought our discussion had remained pretty reasonable.

 

for adults.......

 

We as a staff know who they are, and will take the next steps if needed. In general we want all fans that come to our site to enjoy themselves along with good debate. When I visit JetNation I get some fun ribbing, but there also are some very good brothers there that have taken up for me when others have gotten out of hand.

 

I h8 you don't ever come back to JN!



Just kidding John, obviously.

 

Against the giants they had about 5 minutes and needed a TD. There is only one QB I would want in that situation. It's Brady. And what does he do? He marches down and scores a TD.

I would not take manning over brady ever.

 

Well put!

 

Then they got the ball back with ample time to move down the field in chunks, and he proceeded to throw three desperation passes down the field.

Not seeing your point.

 

25 seconds is ample time? In which universe?

The line was being destroyed. Did you see the hits he took on 2 of those passes? The last one was almost caught and it was about a 60 yard bomb. There was also a penalty for holding.

 

I thought it was more than 25 seconds, maybe you're right on that. My mistake, I thought it was 55 seconds.