Best Linebacking corps in the AFC East

"124 wrote:

Eric Barton is in Cleveland, David Harris (the young up and coming stud) remains in New York. He will be in Ray Lewis' role in the Jet Defense.

Dude don't you know you can just PM me when you have a Jets question? C'mon padre! :lol:

thank god. the one friend i have in the league, had to be a freakin Jet.

"SICK wrote:

no but when the discussion is making plays......tackles and forced fumbles....and solo tackles are more important......then none no?

if tackles "arent everything" then what is less of that "not the whole story" mean?!

1 Forced Fumble isn't really an overwhelming statistic. The solo numbers are nice, but still, is that tackle coming 5, 10 yards down the field or within the first 3 yards of the L.O.S.?

"Sethdaddy8 wrote:

thank god. the one friend i have in the league, had to be a freakin Jet.

You are friends with Eric Barton?

"124 wrote:

1 Forced Fumble isn't really an overwhelming statistic. The solo numbers are nice, but still, is that tackle coming 5, 10 yards down the field or within the first 3 yards of the L.O.S.?

my question is this......

what is more important....crowder making a solo tackle 5 yards down the field....

or bruschi not making the tackle AT ALL????

i would take a guy thats always around the ball on my team

crowder-92 solo
bruschi - 38 solo

"124 wrote:

You are friends with Eric Barton?

yeah, went to u of maryland with him. knew a bunch of those guys, some had short stints in the pros. the most famous of em all, kevin plank, i never got to know well during my time there. he's the dude who founded under armour

"Sethdaddy8 wrote:

yeah, went to u of maryland with him. knew a bunch of those guys, some had short stints in the pros. the most famous of em all, kevin plank, i never got to know well during my time there. he's the dude who founded under armour

Very cool. Thanks for hooking me up with sideline passes while he was here. :lol:

"124 wrote:

Very cool. Thanks for hooking me up with sideline passes while he was here. :lol:

he was a special football player. started ILB as a true freshman, and was instantly the best of the unit. dude is 32, had himself a really nice long nfl career.

"Sethdaddy8 wrote:

he was a special football player. started ILB as a true freshman, and was instantly the best of the unit. dude is 32, had himself a really nice long nfl career.

I don't know why he followed Mangini to Cleveland, I'm guessing the only reason was so that he could start and wasn't getting many other offers. He wasn't one of the 3 players dealt in the Sanchez deal, he was a UFA.

One of my favorite Jets while he was here though, very much so. I'm surprised I never purchased his jersey.

YouTube - Elton John can you feel the love tonight

"SICK wrote:

lmao

i guess if you mean....no fumbles.....no ints......and only 75 tackles......is more plays then crowders 113 tackles....92 solo....and a ff.....but to each his own

Bro, Crowder doesn't make plays, he lets plays come to him. When he tries to create something he ends up taking bad angles towards the ball carrier. That's something that all Miami fans have knocked him for since he's been here, it's nothing new. That isn't something that can (or has) been said about Bruschi, he plays big even though he doesn't put up gaudy stats. Is his career winding down? Sure, but he's still a better player at this point than Crowder has been at any point in his career. :up:

"like2god wrote:

Bro, Crowder doesn't make plays, he lets plays come to him. When he tries to create something he ends up taking bad angles towards the ball carrier. That's something that all Miami fans have knocked him for since he's been here, it's nothing new. That isn't something that can (or has) been said about Bruschi, he plays big even though he doesn't put up gaudy stats. Is his career winding down? Sure, but he's still a better player at this point than Crowder has been at any point in his career. :up:

disagree 1000% but i respect it

"like2god wrote:

Bro, Crowder doesn't make plays, he lets plays come to him. When he tries to create something he ends up taking bad angles towards the ball carrier. That's something that all Miami fans have knocked him for since he's been here, it's nothing new. That isn't something that can (or has) been said about Bruschi, he plays big even though he doesn't put up gaudy stats. Is his career winding down? Sure, but he's still a better player at this point than Crowder has been at any point in his career. :up:

Exactly what I wanted to say and 100% spot on.

"like2god wrote:

Seeing that neither Crowder or Ayodele would start on the Jets or Pats, I don't see how anyone could choose Miami. Taylor is a situational passrusher at this point in his career and Wake is a total unknown, so they aren't much of a factor either IMO. It's a tough call between the Pats and the Jets, but NY gets my vote.

How did you arrive at that prediction L2G?

As for the Pats, McKenzie is out for the season, Thomas never really produces (I'd think Roth's numbers were close to A thomas's) and they have no OLB who can pass rush unless 2nd yr rookie Crable can.

"like2god wrote:

Bro, Crowder doesn't make plays, he lets plays come to him. When he tries to create something he ends up taking bad angles towards the ball carrier. That's something that all Miami fans have knocked him for since he's been here, it's nothing new. That isn't something that can (or has) been said about Bruschi, he plays big even though he doesn't put up gaudy stats. Is his career winding down? Sure, but he's still a better player at this point than Crowder has been at any point in his career. :up:

Sure, however Bruschi is barely a phone booth player now, Scott had 82 tackles for the Ravens last season, Akin A had 78.

Heck A thomas had a whopping 34 tackles last season before he broke his arm, career wise, he had his best seasons with...the Ravens

Stats wise our Lb's performed better then any other group in the AFC East.

Crowder is a good starter, but Ayodele is what he is... We have the best OLBs but our ILB is what kills is. After the Bart Scott signing, the Jets have the best LB squad in the East. Calvin Pace did pretty well and if Gholston pans out, they'll have a sick linebacker corp for years.

"padre31 wrote:

How did you arrive at that prediction L2G?

As for the Pats, McKenzie is out for the season, Thomas never really produces (I'd think Roth's numbers were close to A thomas's) and they have no OLB who can pass rush unless 2nd yr rookie Crable can.

That Channing wouldn't start on the Pats?

Who does he replace? Bruschi who has been a probowl player or Mayo who shows much more potential the Crowder ever has? Sorry padre, but once the season was over Miami fans were being realistic and objective in their views on Crowder and pointing out valid concerns in his game, now that he resigned and we're heading into the season the evaluations are tinged with Aqua and Orange. :wink2:

"padre31 wrote:

Sure, however Bruschi is barely a phone booth player now, Scott had 82 tackles for the Ravens last season, Akin A had 78.

Heck A thomas had a whopping 34 tackles last season before he broke his arm, career wise, he had his best seasons with...the Ravens

Stats wise our Lb's performed better then any other group in the AFC East.

Come on padre, Scott has been a much more consistent contributor in his career than Ayodele. I don't think it's really even an issue, does anyone here think that Ayodele would command the type of interest (or contract) that Scott did this offseason? There is a reason for it, simple stat comparisons don't tell the whole story of the players and their game.

Thomas hasn't lived up to his contract in NE, but he's better than Roth. Matt is the better run stopper, but Thomas is better at getting to the Qb and in pass D IMO. He missed 7 games and still had as many sacks as Roth, hurries aren't an official NFL stat, but I would bet that he leads that category as well.

As far as our LB's, keep in mind that Porter had a career year and his numbers skew the total a bit, I don't expect him to come close to last years numbers. Going into this offseason we were all complaining that we needed some big upgrades at LB because we couldn't generate any passrush and most wanted Crowder gone. Now that we resigned Channing and passed over some very good LB prospects in the draft in order to select a part time specialist, it seems as if people have just forgotten our troubles. I understand optimism at this time of year, but I don't understand wiping the slate clean and ignoring our concerns from the prior year when they haven't been adequately addressed.

Crowder could replace Bruschi, easily, and don't forget they wanted JT badly as well.

As for Akin A, look at the stats, compare the number of pro bowls both players have been to, Scott v Akin A, you'll be surprised (possibly).

Statiscally speaking, Dolphins Lb's finished either #1 or #2 v other Lb's in the division, no other team had a unit as good across the board.

Sacks #1, Tackles #3 (by 4 tackles) Int's and Fumbles, the Dolphins Lb's had a much better year then those Lb's who have larger reputations but not stats.

And we added JT and Wake.

The poll doesn't take JT and Wake into account, so I had to vote NY. But put in JT and Cam Wake, and I vote Phins. Aside from which I believe Gholston will be a bust and Scott won't play nearly as well without Ray Lewis by his side.

I say Boston College..........that guy Herzlich rocks. :wink2:

On paper, jets.
Overall...us :D

"padre31 wrote:

Crowder could replace Bruschi, easily,

In your opinion

and don't forget they wanted JT badly as well.

Perhaps to be the situational passrusher that we signed him to be? He would have been a spare part, not a starter, so their pursuit of him means little IMO.

The Pats also kicked the tires on Culpepper after we dumped him, does that mean he is a good player?

As for Akin A, look at the stats, compare the number of pro bowls both players have been to, Scott v Akin A, you'll be surprised (possibly).

Nice dodge of my question :wink2:

Do you think that Ayodele would receive the type of interest or contract that Scott received this offseason? If yes, why?

Statiscally speaking, Dolphins Lb's finished either #1 or #2 v other Lb's in the division, no other team had a unit as good across the board.

Sacks #1, Tackles #3 (by 4 tackles) Int's and Fumbles, the Dolphins Lb's had a much better year then those Lb's who have larger reputations but not stats.

Stats don't necessarily tell the whole story, it's the type of plays being made that matter. I feel like I walked into a Pennington thread. :pointlol:

As Joe pointed out, Channing could have more tackles than someone like Scott, but do those tackles really count as "making a play" if they are 10 yards down the field? Crowder lets plays come to him, he was the main ILB on the team last year, where Scott was 2nd fiddle to Lewis, but he commanded more interest this offseason than Channing. Now ask, "why"?

Simple answer, he's the better player. :wink2:

And again, Porter's numbers inflated what was a very poor LB crew. Do we not remember our complaints from last season? Roth is a liability against the pass and can't generate pressure? Crowder hasn't made a play since he's been in Miami? Ayodele is a solid player, but not a starter? Anyone?

And we added JT and Wake.

JT is a situational player at this point and Wake has to prove that he can play in the NFL, his numbers in the CFL are meaningless. He may end up being as worthless as Eddie Moore for all we know.

mike i dont get how the main diss on crowder is his "stats" are misleading and he makes tackles down the field....and lets plays come to him.......so what does it make bruschi if he isnt even doing THAT much?!

atleast crowder is around the ball....92 solo tackles is awesome.....regardless of where it is....believe me, i played the position

As Joe pointed out, Channing could have more tackles than someone like Scott, but do those tackles really count as "making a play" if they are 10 yards down the field? Crowder lets plays come to him, he was the main ILB on the team last year, where Scott was 2nd fiddle to Lewis, but he commanded more interest this offseason than Channing. Now ask, "why"?

Because he is more athletic and was routinely asked to drop into coverage in Baltimore. In fact he was their best coverage linebacker, and does not appear lost when asked to do so. Scott is a 3 down player, Crowder is not.

"like2god wrote:

In your opinion

Jr Seau started for them last season, Crowder isn't Offerdahl Jr. however he's not a 40 yr old twice retired Lb either..

Perhaps to be the situational passrusher that we signed him to be? He would have been a spare part, not a starter, so their pursuit of him means little IMO.

Compared to Bunta Cain and Brian Crable? Seriously?

The Pats also kicked the tires on Culpepper after we dumped him, does that mean he is a good player?

Which has what to do with JT? The pats made an offer for JT, they clearly wanted him in NE, in MI he won't even be a starter barring injuries.

Nice dodge of my question :wink2:

Do you think that Ayodele would receive the type of interest or contract that Scott received this offseason? If yes, why?

Which has no bearing on Akin A v B Scott and the best Lb Corp in the AFC East, a large contract merely means the Jets paid him what they thought he was worth, that does not mean he will play up to the level of that contract.

Stats don't necessarily tell the whole story, it's the type of plays being made that matter. I feel like I walked into a Pennington thread. :pointlol:

Lies, damn lies, then statistics?

How do you weight those stats for a player who had a top notch supporting cast surrounding him? Unless it is some form of compelling argument it's tough to see 4 tackles more being worth millions more on the field...

As Joe pointed out, Channing could have more tackles than someone like Scott, but do those tackles really count as "making a play" if they are 10 yards down the field? Crowder lets plays come to him, he was the main ILB on the team last year, where Scott was 2nd fiddle to Lewis, but he commanded more interest this offseason than Channing. Now ask, "why"

Sure, that was the same rap on Zach Thomas, and either way, 84 tackles is not exactly Jesse Tuggle like, as for commanding more interest, so what?

FA busts are a dime a dozen, the league often gets it wrong L2G.

Simple answer, he's the better player. :wink2:

Nope, could be he was worth that much to the Jets simply because he understood Rex Ryan's defense and they needed someone to help the other players learn the "D" playbook.

And again, Porter's numbers inflated what was a very poor LB crew. Do we not remember our complaints from last season? Roth is a liability against the pass and can't generate pressure? Crowder hasn't made a play since he's been in Miami? Ayodele is a solid player, but not a starter? Anyone?

Certainly, however this is a phins board, we pick apart our players even when they have career highs in sacks or are coming off of their first season at OLB, that is what fans do, however the fact of the matter is we have the best AFC East Lb crew heading into the season.

One seems to be confusing armchair Gming (of which I'm one) vs actual production out on the field, opinion v facts as it were.

The Jets have Gholston, the Bills drafted Maybin, however neither is as good as JT was last season, Gholston had 2 tackles, Maybin was in College, JT had three sacks in an injury plagued season, and he still was more productive then either Maybin or Gholston, so other then projection, what do you base JT's worth on?

Add in Wake, and we not only have the best Lb corps in the AFC East, we also have the best depth.

Channing Crowder may not be a super star but he's a solid starter with decent numbers and he's relatively young. When free agency was about to get started I was talking to some chiefs fans on another forum and they were DROOLING at the prospect of getting him. Going into free agency he was the top free agent LB available many people thought. Is he as good as Bruschi? No but he's a hell of a lot younger, a solid starter for us and we got him at a decent price.

I am personally happy with our LB corps. We've got solid starters and great depth. If I could improve anywhere I'd love for a monster ILB to replace Ayodele. The FO seems to like him but I can't ever remember the guy making a big play. Roth, Crowder and Porter all have their upsides. But to me Ayodele is a cipher. Other than him though I'm fine.