Barry Jackson rips the franchise for poor team-building

"Stringer Bell wrote:

Why? Why can't they just get lucky?

It's possible, but this team really hasn't benefitted from a whole lot of the typical forms of football luck (unusual percentage of fumble recoveries, opposing teams dropping passes or missing easy field goals, bad officiating, etc.)

"Ohio Fanatic wrote:

I don't agree. Like most football fans, everyone thinks their HC is the worst. IMO, the majority of coaches in the NFL are very mediocre and often times too conservative. Philbin fits right into that pool of extremely mediocre HCs that encompasses 2/3 of the HC pool. Very few HCs are really "great". there are also a few HCs that are likely mediocre, but have an asset such as an elite QB that pulls them into a higher tier. Our team, like most teams, has some talent. but overall, we have no depth anywhere and many of our skill position players are mediocre.

What do you not agree with exactly failbin isn't a good head coach? Give me a break, I don't care what you think about 2/3 of the HC pool. Like Adam Shein said, "Philbin is not a good head coach". If you can't see that, then I guess that's why you, and the so much of this fan base blame everything on the man that contributed to the construction of the vast majority of this team. Lead by Ryan Tannehill. And Mr. Queasy, what a joke.

"Fineas wrote:

It's possible, but this team really hasn't benefitted from a whole lot of the typical forms of football luck (unusual percentage of fumble recoveries, opposing teams dropping passes or missing easy field goals, bad officiating, etc.)

No, but I think for the most part, luck in player acquisition is the biggest area to get lucky in. Its very likely that Ireland was a bad talent evaluator, and really just lucked into Cameron Wake and Ryan Tannehill, two guys who provided a lot of value to the Dolphins this past season.

I don't necessarily believe that to be true, I was merely pointing out that IMO you can have a bad HC and a bad GM and still end up with an average (or even good) team.

"Fineas wrote:

I don't agree with this. I mean it sounds nice but I don't think it really holds up to scrutiny. I agree that Ireland was OK as a talent evaluator -- his draft record doesn't really compare unfavorably to most other GMs -- but I think your criticism of him as a team builder is a little off. I don't think he was a great team builder, but it's not because he was ignoring the preferences and schemes of his coaches. He generally drafted guys that fit the apparent demands and schemes of the coaches. Of the guys he drafted the only ones that seem on their face to not be scheme fits were Pat White and Dion Jordan, and the White pick was apparently a Parcells thing and the Jordan pick was widely reported as a consensus decision of the scouts and coaching staff. For Sparano, Ireland generally focused on the trenches and got a number of quality bigs -- Long, Odrick, Starks, Pouncey, etc . He got two quality corners in Davis and Smith and they are guys who were not scheme-specific. He also got a quality safety (RJones) and a talented TE (Clay). In the latter half of Sparano's tenure, there was a focus on more chunk yardage plays and Ireland brought in Marshall, Reggie Bush, Gates (ill-fated, but an attempt at a big-play speed guy). When Philbin came in, the focus moved to Philbin's offense and Tannehill, Egnew, Miller, Wallace, etc. were logical attempts to fit Philbin's scheme. Egnew didn't pan out, but it wasn't because he wasn't a scheme fit. In the meantime, a lot of talented players were jettisoned due (apparently) to preferences of the coaching staff, e.g., Davis, Smith, Long, Bush, Dansby, Marshall, etc. If you plugged those guys into this roster, it would be a pretty good team.

As it is, this team was basically a .500 team during Ireland's tenure despite bad and/or inexperienced young QBs and very mediocre (to be nice) coaching. That wouldn't have been the case if the "team building" was truly as bad as you suggest. Ireland certainly didn't do a great job and made his share of mistakes, but he's really not the one most responsible for the problems with this team.

What do you think where the picks or FAs that were made as if Belichick was the coach instead of Sparano/Philbin?

As for Hickey, he used premium resources to rebuild the OL (highest paid FA and a first round pick) and really didn't have to do much to the secondary, which was quite good in 2013. He could have kept Clemons and Carroll (two relatively young, healthy guys) instead of getting Finnegan and Delmas and it probably would have costs less too. The "fixing" of the secondary was a problem of his own making.

I love this website. Lots of Ireland defending kooks like me! Soooooo much better than finheaven, bunch of Miss Nancy's over there.

"rafael wrote:

There actually was a point this season where we were playing at an elite level. There was about a 4 game stretch (about a quarter of the season) where by most metrics we were playing at an elite level. I think during that stretch we were second only to Denver. For about a quarter of the season the D was top 2 or so, Tannehill was producing top 5 numbers (top 2 or 3 actually) and the run game was averaging about 100 yards a game. Then D and the OL fell apart which probably points to both lack of depth and poor coaching adjustments. I guess some would debate whether or not playing at that level for a quarter of the season constitutes "damn close" or maybe question the level of competition, but I would say that that constitutes being an elite team at some point this season.

Which stretch specifically? And I'm in the camp playing elite for 4 games doesn't count as being elite. Geno Smith in the last 4 games of last season played at an elite level with I think 100 QBR or higher (let me go calculate)

105 QBR with a 9.18 ypa. If you take out Minny he's at 115 QBR Lol.

"DcDolfan420 wrote:

I love this website. Lots of Ireland defending kooks like me! Soooooo much better than finheaven, bunch of Miss Nancy's over there.

I got nothing against finheaven, I still lurk over there. Most of us got started there before this site was created. Hell I've been a member there since way back in 2000.

"jdang307 wrote:

Which stretch specifically? And I'm in the camp playing elite for 4 games doesn't count as being elite. Geno Smith played like an Elite QB last year ... against us.

Like Channing Crowder said on the Q, we not a good team, we a dangerous team. We can f*** with a NE and slaughter a SD, but also get pounded by a NY. Life as a Dolphins fan.

"Launchpad McQuack wrote:

I got nothing against finheaven, I still lurk over there. Most of us got started there before this site was created. Hell I've been a member there since way back in 2000.

I don't like the managers or whoever is running s*** over there. They ban people for little things and send arrogant messages but when one of their website donating memebers talks s***, it's all good. They're douch bags and I'm not the only one with problems with them.

"Stringer Bell wrote:

No, but I think for the most part, luck in player acquisition is the biggest area to get lucky in. Its very likely that Ireland was a bad talent evaluator, and really just lucked into Cameron Wake and Ryan Tannehill, two guys who provided a lot of value to the Dolphins this past season.

I don't necessarily believe that to be true, I was merely pointing out that IMO you can have a bad HC and a bad GM and still end up with an average (or even good) team.

Agreed. And I don't think it's impossible for both to "suck." Sucks to me, isn't just 2-14. It's 8-8 and always missing the playoffs.

It's possible Ireland compiled an 8-8 team and Philbin coached them exactly to 8-8. He doesn't get more out of his players, and Ireland wasn't supplying it. If Ireland provided a 12-4 team then you don't need great coaching. Ireland did not give Philbin a 5-11 team that he coached up to 8-8 for example.

The thing is, it's all on Tanny. It's the single most important position on the field because you can beat up on the inferior teams and hang with the tougher ones.

"jdang307 wrote:

Agreed. And I don't think it's impossible for both to "suck." Sucks to me, isn't just 2-14. It's 8-8 and always missing the playoffs.

It's possible Ireland compiled an 8-8 team and Philbin coached them exactly to 8-8. He doesn't get more out of his players, and Ireland wasn't supplying it. If Ireland provided a 12-4 team then you don't need great coaching. Ireland did not give Philbin a 5-11 team that he coached up to 8-8 for example.

The thing is, it's all on Tanny. It's the single most important position on the field because you can beat up on the inferior teams and hang with the tougher ones.

Ryan Tannehill was the best, most patient move this organization has made in a long a** time. Thanks Cleveland and Washington lol, I was ecstatic after the 7th pick that year. Oh and btw if we trade or cut him I'm out, Dolphins fan my whole life but I just couldn't handle getting a franchise qb and letting him leave without good reason.

I'd be back though after whatever cancer drove him out and then eventually died in Miami. Hopefully that day never comes.

"DcDolfan420 wrote:

I don't like the managers or whoever is running s*** over there. They ban people for little things and send arrogant messages but when one of their website donating memebers talks s***, it's all good. They're douch bags and I'm not the only one with problems with them.

Welcome to the thephins.com

2016 seems so far away...

the last time we went 10-6 or better was when ? Sparano was no better then Wanny or Jim Bates at least Bates was interesting the idiot Sparano loved field goals and fist pumps. Dave's weakness was he was not a good gm and was never on the same page as Speillmen . Saban never wanted to be here , Cam Cameron was a horrible evaluator of talent. Sparano didn't want to win bad enough Philbin cant coach and s a horrible talent evaluator.

the efc north is up for grabs , the afc east is constantly won by the patriots every year , and quite frankly I am sick of this division and to make matters worse Buffalo has passed us by and the jets may pass us by .

Ross only bought this team to run it into the ground for tax purposes . a good owner would never allow players quitting like they did .

we have been having record 8-8 -7-9 and occasionally win a 9 win but we will not be be in the playoffs until we get a great coach its that simple.

"RoninFin4 wrote:

2016 seems so far away...

:no:

"Fin D wrote:

The problem was Ireland.

Regardless of what anyone thinks, Ireland has a helluva eye for talent...but he was very poor at the concept of building a team (and also communication). He bought groceries for cooks who were cooking something different. I mean its great you can find the best tunafish out there but ultimately its detrimental if the cook is baking a chocolate cake.

Ireland drafted like Bill Belichick was his coach when what he had was disciple of dinosaur football (Sparano) and then a staunch scheme guy (Philbin).

So Hickey comes in and looks around and realizes there's some gaping holes in the secondary and he has to replace 4/5 of the oline. The only way to fill that many holes is to either:

1. Sign as many low cost (which generally means average to poor) players as possible.

OR

2. Gamble on talented players with either injuries or character concerns or age. (He chose to go for injury issues.)

By choosing #2, he figured if the stars aligned we could be really good while injuries didn't crop up. And he was right. Let's not forget, that before Albert's injury (and after we got the swing of the new offense) we were damn close to an elite team.

Now we have another voice in Tannebaum, to help ensure the team is built correctly, which I think is a good thing. Collaboration is good, especially when there's enough people for a tie breaker...without having to go to Ross. And make no mistake, that's THE #1 reason our new structure is a major positive (#2 is the analytics dept.).

I think if this were true he'd have a job right now.

"LBsFinest wrote:

I think if this were true he'd have a job right now.

He has an okay eye for talent.

He's not Matt Millen, but look at Scot McCloughan getting a job even after his drunken episodes.

"LBsFinest wrote:

I think if this were true he'd have a job right now.

No no no you don't get it. He's under contract here still and teams can just hire him as a consultant.

What's that? He only had a short stint as a consultant with SEA then hasn't had a job since? Well then...

"LBsFinest wrote:

I think if this were true he'd have a job right now.

yeah fin d needs to put the bottle down.

"jdang307 wrote:

He has an okay eye for talent.

He's not Matt Millen, but look at Scot McCloughan getting a job even after his drunken episodes.

exactly, McCloughan was a raging alcoholic that even showed up drunk on draft day, yet because he's one of the best talent evaluators in the business teams have always been interested in making him a part of their front office and maybe even eventually running the team, which he is now doing.

"Stringer Bell wrote:

No, but I think for the most part, luck in player acquisition is the biggest area to get lucky in. Its very likely that Ireland was a bad talent evaluator, and really just lucked into Cameron Wake and Ryan Tannehill, two guys who provided a lot of value to the Dolphins this past season.

I don't necessarily believe that to be true, I was merely pointing out that IMO you can have a bad HC and a bad GM and still end up with an average (or even good) team.

Fair enough. Yes, GMs can luck into players. In fact, luck is probably the key factor. Most of the great picks were lucky in the sense that nobody else took them earlier and many are also lucky in the sense that the team that did take them had no real idea what it had when it drafted the guy.

"DcDolfan420 wrote:

Like Channing Crowder said on the Q, we not a good team, we a dangerous team. We can f*** with a NE and slaughter a SD, but also get pounded by a NY. Life as a Dolphins fan.

That's similarly true of all the good teams. NE lost to us, barely beat the Raiders and got pounded by the Chiefs. Denver got their butts kicked by STL. Seattle lost to 3 non-playoff teams. GB got throttled by the Saints and was impotent against the Bills. That's just how the NFL is.

"Fineas wrote:

That's similarly true of all the good teams. NE lost to us, barely beat the Raiders and got pounded by the Chiefs. Denver got their butts kicked by STL. Seattle lost to 3 non-playoff teams. GB got throttled by the Saints and was impotent against the Bills. That's just how the NFL is.

Yea but were especially skitzo, not many can crush a team as good as San Diego and get dominated by the jets the way we really did twice. Were especially volatile imo, and that comes down to an abundance of starting talent, and a lack of coaching and some youth/inexperience mixed in there.

We really aren't any more schizo than most other middle of the pack teams. SD got trounced by us but beat Seattle by two scores. Buffalo beat GB then lost to the Raiders the next week and then beat NE the week after that. KC dominated us and the Pats but lost to Tennessee and the Raiders. Etc.

"LBsFinest wrote:

exactly, McCloughan was a raging alcoholic that even showed up drunk on draft day, yet because he's one of the best talent evaluators in the business teams have always been interested in making him a part of their front office and maybe even eventually running the team, which he is now doing.

Is he really one of the best talent evaluators. His two drafts as GM in SF were abysmal. Crabtree is the only halfway decent player he got in those drafts. In Seattle he wasn't GM, but rather a "Senior Personnel Executive." I don;'t think he had final say so I'm not sure how much credit he gets for any of their picks. even if we credit him with everything, after a good first draft in Seattle, it was pretty much just Wilson and Sherman. Those were some big hits, but there is no indication he had any idea when Seattle took them that they'd become what they have become. That they got them so late suggests he did not (and that he got lucky they were even there).