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Baker mayfield.

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by pumpdogs, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I admitt I didn't want anything to do with this guy with his off the field issues until I really started watching film on this guy.I now have a man crush on him.If darnold and rosen go 1-2 what would it take to go get him?The last thing I want to see is him playing for the jets.
     
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  2. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Check out Matt Waldman's videos on YouTube, he has a couple breakdowns of this year's QBs. He concisely goes over their strengths and weaknesses. It really scared me away from Josh Allen and warmed me up to Lamar Jackson. I also got to see a Northwestern RB, last name Jackson, on his channel who I hadn't really paid attention to.

    It's good YouTube content. No fluff, just tape-watching with a guy who's done it for awhile.
     
  3. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    I like Lamar Jackson or Baker Mayfield.
     
  4. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Browns have a QB too.
     
  5. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't be dissapointed if we moved up for mayfield and traded tannehill.But that is just me.
     
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  6. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Lets not turn this into another tannehill thread I am just stating my opinion.
     
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  7. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Me neither, I want a QB who can take our team to the next level. Nothing wrong with looking to upgrade EVERY position that can be and QB for Miami can be upgraded.
     
  8. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Moving up is expensive.

    Hey, maybe we can trade Kiko and Pouncey to move up?

    Na, what organization would be that stupid?
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  9. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    STOP, STOP, STOP were going to be no where close to getting a top QB when we draft. If they wanted one of the top5 available they should have lost when it mattered. Instead we won meaningless games in terms of draft. Of course players are playing for jobs but the coach could have put in backups and did some talent eval and they didnt.

    Could we move up? Sure but what do you have to offer we would have to sell the future to get high enough. Unless you trade away mutliplekey positions. Like SUH and Ryan for our 1st to get to 3-4.

    If one of them happens to fall we still wonttake on in the first round. Were going defense I bet.
     
  10. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    What would Tannehill net in a trade to move up in your opinion? Not saying it will happen, I highly doubt it but what would you get? Personally, I think guys like Cousins and Garoppolo would net more in a trade to move up but some team out there may want Tannehill right?
     
  11. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I don't remember what did it cost the eagles to move up from 8 to 2 after our stupid trade with them?
     
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  12. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I think we could get a 2nd rounder for him.
     
  13. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I think the knee concerns (yes, it goes through teams heads when investing in a player) and the fact that he is 30 means we wouldn’t be happy with the compensation regardless, so it is best to keep him.

    We would get low-balled below his projected worth.

    A first would be totally out of the question, imo.

    I’m guessing we could get a 3, which certainly isn’t worth it imo.

    And before anyone tries to use the Sam Bradford barometer? That was an isolated case of obvious desperation for a team who lost there starter late. (See Jay Cutler)
     
  14. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    I think Tannehill and our #11 can move us to #4.... Browns are idiots so.... Although I personally rather stay at 11, Keep Tannehill for 2018 and draft Lamar Jackson if he’s there. An Elite QB can do wonders for an organization.
     
  15. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not impressed with Mayfield. I don't think his game translates well to the pro's and he has a very average arm.
     
  16. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I actually wasn't saying u were turning this into a tannehill.I was talking to eveyone that this was not my intention.
    As for mayfield I love his improvisation skills.Using his feet to keep plays alive.
    Accuracy is good on every throw I saw from short to deep.No hesitation to pull the trigger is what I also love because (now this is the gamble to me )bUT could also make him great his swagger!
    He is a gamble no doubt but sometimes you.need to take a chance if you see greatness.What do the Dolphins see we won't know until draft day.
     
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  17. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Who do you.like if anybody?
     
  18. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Yea I am not big fan of jackson.I just don't see with his frame he will last in this league being a running qb.
     
  19. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Yea but they are likely going QB 1 overall, so losing out on a premium position player would be strange.

    I think they end up Darnold/Barkley if I had to guess today.
     
  20. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Players get bigger in the NFL, he’s not Pat White, you’ll be able to pack on to his frame. Hence, Keep Tannehill for 2018 while he hits the weight room.

    I hate the “running QB” thing too, he passes the ball extremely well. Just because he can run like a RB shouldn’t be a knock on him... wtf?!? Lmao
     
  21. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    I think as of right now they go Saquon #1 and QB #4... NYG is booked into Rosen (who will not play for Browns anyways) and IND don’t need a QB but could use Saquon. This makes more sense for CLE but it’s CLE and nothing they do makes sense.
     
  22. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Whatever the Browns do I'm sure it will be the wrong moves.
     
  23. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the knock on him is his accuracy. I have no problem with a QB at 11 if it is someone they are convinced about. I'd probably be happier with a defensive player, but it sure seems like a blue chip player will be there for us at 11
     
  24. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Cannot forget this offseason may see MULTIPLE good QB's on the free agent and trade blocks which could seriously disrupt things.

    Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, Eli Manning, Tyrod Taylor the Minnesota 3 ... all could end up filling holes of teams above us. For instance, if I am the Browns and Cousins hits FA? Offer him the farm, draft Barkley and Minkah and laugh to the bank.

    That said, I think we have 5 legit first round talents at QB in the draft. This offseason could be a HUGE QB shakeup, and we might see teams with a "settled" but questionable situation drafting. Think teams like us (injury, averageness) or Saints (Brees' age). If Darnold does pop at 11, are we really going to say no?

    As far as Mayfield, I am not a fan. He's just douchey, and his game reminds me of Manziel more than Brees/Wilson. He'd be last on my list of the big 5. Lamar Jackson I like a lot - he's a better Vick. Allen is a big bust potential, but damn his skillset ... Rosen and Darnold are the top 2 I think.
     
  25. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Every QB is flawed coming out every draft.
     
  26. The Finest

    The Finest Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Would rather mason rudolph in 3-4 round
     
  27. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Absolutely agree. Problem is accuracy is pretty high on the list of flaws for a QB. Kid is super talented. Will definitely root for him if we drafted him.
     
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  28. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Good point... accuracy could be a problem, this is where I put my faith in Gase... that Bowl game scared me too, “Big Game” don’t look so good...
     
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  29. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    59% this year.... haha the last QB we took in the first round was too busy playing WR until his last year in college so he had 61% and he isn’t anywhere NEAR/NOT CLOSE BY A LITTLE BIT as a threat on the ground like Lamar is... so haha again.
     
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  30. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Not a fan of Josh Allen after what I watched this year. Don't see it at all - he's definitely over-hyped.
     
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  31. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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  32. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    All these debates who is the best one.The truth is nobody knows including.the scouts or gms let alone a bunch of guys on a forum.
    How does brady go in 6th or Marino and rodgers go in the 20s in the first round
    An exact science this is not.All I know is unless u have elite defences u need a elite QB to compete every year.The risk is worth taking if the guy you feel is there.
     
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  33. TheOne

    TheOne Active Member

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    I like Lamar Jackson but not in the first.
     
  34. NCPhinFan

    NCPhinFan Active Member

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    This is really a hard QB class to peg. As far as getting value, I think we would get the best value out of Mason Rudolph in the 2nd or 3rd and have him back up Tannehill and learn the offense for a season or two. The Dolphins have too many other positions of need to spend a first round pick on a QB this year, especially when there are going to be quality players there at 11.
     
  35. zatrex99

    zatrex99 Member

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    Mayfield is probably the next Drew Brees with a little Russel Wilson thrown in. He'll be a franchise qb, for the Browns. No way Dorsey passes on him.

    Jackson would be good in a slash role, or a one read type run heavy offense. If you're looking for a prototypical qb, pass. Accuracy issues and those rarely can be corrected. Rudolph's an average armed system qb. Will make a good back up for a west coast offense.

    Darnold could be another Luck, if you set him on the bench for a year and developed him.

    Rosen I'm not sure about, except his attitude which is a huge no for me.

    Josh Allen will be a bust. crossing fingers he goes to the Jets.

    So to sum up, if Darnold fell to us, I'd take him (We won't get a chance at Mayfield.)
     
  36. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Sam Brandford 2.0? No thanks.
     
  37. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Lamar has 4th round talent IMO. If Gase thinks he can develop him I wouldn't be mad if he grabbed him in the 4th or lower.
     
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  38. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Guys disagreement is fine but insults and stupidity are not. If you want to make a case for or against a player do so. Don’t sit there and hurl hot takes and one liners at each other. There are people who put the work in, break down the film and have a track record. Even Mel Kiper and Mike Mayock arent perfect and get many evaluations incorrect. Bring facts to the table, not “Oh he’s going to fail because every other heisman winner has” or “Lamar Jackson is going to win championships”. Tell us why he’s going to fail or win championships. Everything else is just lazy conjecture.
     
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  39. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Personally I have the QBs rated as follows:

    1. Josh Rosen UCLA - He is, IMO, so far and away the best QB in this class no one else is in the conversation. I like Mayfield and Darnold a lot but this is my guy. If I’m the Browns, this is who I’m taking at 1. There’s no throw he can’t make and concerns about his attitude are vastly overstated.

    The good: Rosen has the best release and throwing motion I’ve seen since Luck, maybe Peyton. He has really good footwork from under center and throws with a strong base. At 6’4”/220 he’s an ideal height and has room to add another 10-15Lbs. He posses near ideal touch and velocity down field and is able to drive the ball in to tight windows. He has shown the ability to manipulate defenders with his eyes and come back to an earlier read something few QBs can do at the college and even pro level on a consistent basis. The next time I see a throw Rosen can’t make, will be the first.

    You watch what Rosen does with his passes, particularly on his deep ball and he consistently lays them in there: 1st video http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/new...-darnold-josh-rosen/wcrj5u02jkal14f2wulzw389y

    There are some out there who express concern over his attitude but really is he wrong when he says “School and (major college) football don’t go together”? Many of us have laughed for years about what a joke the NCAA is and how half these guys probably have degrees in basket weaving. Here’s the full quote from a piece in Bleacher Report:
    One of the greatest sins any football player can commit is to have actual thoughts. Both his own coach, Jim Mora Jr and Stanford’s David Shaw spoke with contempt about the comments basically laying it on the players own personal failings if they can’t juggle the two. The biggest problem scouts want to have with him is that he won’t just go along with whatever people say, he will tell you you’re wrong, tell you why you’re wrong, and won’t budge on it. That to me is a positive as it shows an ability to think for oneself.

    He’s questioned those who think he doesn’t love the game: "I don't love the game? Really?" Rosen says. "If I didn't love the game, I wouldn't be out here getting my *** kicked." http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...uries-ncaa-and-post-nfl-goal-to-own-the-world

    Some will point to the fact that Rosen may have created a bad boy image for himself when he wore a “**** Trump” hat to one of Trumps Golf courses but every teammate and coach speaks glowingly of him. It comes from the fact he had a hot tub in his dorm his freshman year and he was branded by some as a spoiled rich kid. https://247sports.com/college/ucla/...tive-on-UCLA-Quarterback-Josh-Rosen-112741479

    The Bad: Rosen was not afforded good line play or rushing attack the last few years and at times holds the ball too long. I call this Kurt Warner syndrome. Warner hated to throw it away, viewed it as a wasted down. Most of the time Rosen ends up ok out of these situations but when you have the mental clock like Rosen does, it occasionally leads to carelessness as you know the ball should be out. Because of his teams shortcomings he’s tried to do too much on his own at times. The biggest problem with this for Rosen is that it’s lead to a few injuries notably a shoulder injury in 2016 and a concussion.

    The Verdict: UCLA lost 7 of 8 without him and couldn’t beat their way out of a paper bag. This years team had the worst run D in college football for most of the season. Their RBs are atrocious and the only two offensive players aside from Rosen worth a damn are a late round OL prospect (Quessenberry) and a WR Lasley who could go late as well, Rosen is the system. I don’t know if he will be the first QB taken but I strongly believe he will be the best. He consistently displays a touch on his ball that brings to mind guys like Rodgers, Manning (Eli....Rosen can get incredibly hot and cold), and Aikman. Should go: 1st overall but may end up at 2 with the Giants

    A few other pieces for your reading: http://beta.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-darnold-rosen-20170928-story.html (Aikman and Rick Neuheisel speak glowingly about Rosen)
    https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...rts-josh-rosen-decision-to-voice-his-opinion/
    http://beta.latimes.com/opinion/op-...athletics-lean-right-20160729-snap-story.html

    2(tie) Sam Darnold USC and Baker Mayfield Oklahoma - I’ve flip flopped a few times on Darnold and Mayfield and right now I’m leaning towards Darnold but it’s a coin flip and there’s a case to be made for either. Yeah, Darnold is a boring choir boy type. Yeah he’s made some careless throws. That’s going to happen as a redshirt Sophmore. But he’s competed against the best going back to his 7th grade football camps competing against JT Barret, Josh Dobbs, among many others already in the league and beaten them.

    His arm strength is not on the Josh Allen/Josh Rosen level but it’s still good enough. Same can be said for Mayfield. It’s not Chad Pennington or Jay Fiedler level bad; on a grading scale it’s probably a solid B. They both can drive the ball in some windows but footwork needs to be cleaned up as sloppy mechanics sometimes lead to bad throws or throws with less velocity then they should have. A lot of games he needed the presence of Ronald Jones and for Jones to establish the run before Sam could work the play action and use the middle parts of the field. Darnold possesses very good accuracy and touch on his passes. His ball placement will get better with age in my opinion.

    Darnold still struggles with certain coverages and would do well from a year learning under a veteran QB. It’s not that he can’t play at this level, it’s that his body probably needs another year to mature. One thing I really like about Sam is his leadership. His attitude and poise under pressure reflects a calmness and leadership that makes you think he’s 30 not 20. He acts like he’s been there done that, essentially the Barry Sanders of QBs in his approach.

    As for Mayfield, I just don’t see the Johnny Manziel thing unless you’re talking about his fiery competitiveness on the field. This guy has never been in trouble off the field. There’s no reports about him being a ridiculous party guy like Manziel. Every time he was in trouble was on the field such as planting the fiag at midfield @ Ohio State and grabbing his crotch vs Kansas State who had some less then flattering things to say about him leading up to the game. Lincoln Riley stripped him of his team captaincy for that. Mayfield is accurate with good ball placement but there are some concerns I have about him as I do with Darnold.

    For starters, Mayfield transferred from Texas Tech after walking on. He was injured after his first game there (he lit up SMU as a walk on fresh 43-60-413), lost his job to Davis Webb, and transferred citing poor communication even after returning for the final 3 games and winning Big12 offensive freshman of the year. I’ve questioned whether that “poor communication” was really about whether he had done enough to earn the starters job in his own opinion. That could just be competitiveness but what if it wasn’t? What if his ego needed to be stroked and he needed to be told he was the guy to validate the fact he was forced to walk on? Valid question in my opinion. That was also 4 years ago so I won’t dwell on it but it is something for me to keep in mind.

    The next question for me is about his level of competition. The Big12 is not known for its defense....understatement of the year. It’s Madden come to life. Hell, I’ve seen video games with more defense. And when he played a real defense, he got smoked. That’s not his fault per se but would we all be talking about him as a first round guy if he didn’t have the video game numbers?
    People like, to draw comparisons to Russell Wilson because of the similarities...a 5 year guy who transferred from a different program because he was stuck behind someone else, maybe a little undersized for what the NFL looks for, but an area scout had this to say:


    That said both of these can do it if they find the right situation. For Mayfield I think that’s Denver, for Darnold it could be a few places anywhere from NYG at 2 or Miami/Cincy/Washington(should they lose Cousins) in the 11-13 range. Frankly, I don’t think either is equipped to handle the weather in the northeast for the Jets at 6 which is why I left them out nor do I want either going there as the Jets simply deserve the pit of misery...dilly dilly. Rosen or Josh Allen’s arm is better equipped for that in my opinion.

    Those are the only 3 I have a 1st round grade on and it’s the first time I can recall genuinely liking 3 QB prospects in a 1st round since the Eli-Ben-Rivers draft. The league needs more great pocket QBs and in my opinion these 3 will help. The next 3 are all 2nd and 3rd round grades.

    Mason Rudolph - Oklahoma State - A quintessential pocket guy, I like Rudolph’s ability to read defenses, accuracy and ball placement. His mechanics are good from the gun but need to be cleaned up from under Center. I have the same questions about level of competition that I have about Mayfield, maybe moreso since OSU has a poor history with college QBs becoming useful NFL QBs. He’s also very stiff at times and will need to be more limber and agile or he’s going to have some fumble issues when he gets hit. He’s going to have to throw with more anticipation and get used to throwing in to tight windows as receivers will not be wide open like there were in the Big 12. Overall he should go between 50 and the end of round 2. He should sit for a year, maybe two.

    Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen - Louisville and Wyoming - I like the person in both cases but I do not like the player. Some people have top 5 grades on these 2 but to me even a first round grade is hard to see. Both have glowing flaws in my opinion.

    For Allen, there are three major issues...level of competition, accuracy, and stage fright. Stage fright you say? Listen to his interviews. He clearly does not feel comfortable in front of a crowd, addressing an audience. That’s not a good thing for a position that requires leadership more so then any one position in pro sports. How will he address his teammates, coaches? What if the Jets draft him? A city like NY will eat him alive. This isn’t Eli Manning being “aww shucks”. This is stammering and stuttering over words.

    If you can get past that then there’s still mediocre competition and at times very bad accuracy. Bad accuracy is often the result of sloppy mechanics which shows on some of his film. In other cases he’s just too strong on his throws and tries to muscle up which leads to throws sailing. Overall I have him as a player who should fall between mid to late round 3. You may be able to develop him as a bonafide starter but I’d still be very scared with him as my QB heading to a conference championship or Super Bowl with his personality.

    Jackson has different concerns. He does not read past his first or 2nd progressions on almost every play I watch. It’s not a secret, I’ve never been a fan of QBs that run a lot but Jackson has a lot of growing to do if he wants to play the QB position. There have been scouts that suggest a position change and it’s not unfounded. He could be a good RB or interesting WR prospect. Braxton Miller comes to mind. These RPO systems like Louisville’s do a player like Jackson no favors as the NFL game is played from the pocket and I don’t see Jackson changing that. Overall, I see him as a runner more then a passer. If someone can develop him as a passer he has the arm to be effective but can he learn to read defenses and progressions? Overall he may go sooner but I think he should go between mid and late round 3.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  40. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Great write up, Boik. And sorry about the vomit you had to clean up. I'll do better. lol

    One thing concerning Mayfield. He has had off the field trouble. He was arrested and charged with PI, fleeing, and resisting arrest. I think what he did was pretty minor, but it's something teams will look at.

    For what it's worth, he's my top pick for QB.
     
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