Atogwe value compared to British Petroleum Stock

I don't think the teams record is a reflection on a FS's play. I mean, there are 21 other starters, not including STs. A FS can't make a big enough impact to carry a team. They've been real bad. But your going to put that on him? And that's gunna be your main reason for not wanting him?

Whatchu talkin' 'bout Willis?

I love how this is his team photo...Kinda reminiscent of the Rams as a team during his era(what with the whole deer in the headlights look). It looks like this was the exact moment he found out he was drafted by the Rams.

"FinNasty wrote:

I don't think the teams record is a reflection on a FS's play. I mean, there are 21 other starters, not including STs. A FS can't make a big enough impact to carry a team. They've been real bad. But your going to put that on him? And that's gunna be your main reason for not wanting him?

It appears I am not the only one that is not interested in paying the Kings Ransom he and his agent are evidently looking for. Neighbor down the block is a HUGE Rams fan and in DVRd just about every game in the last three years. OJ does have take aways but since we were interested spent some time and a few six packs at his house and believe me, OJ also gets burnt pretty bad by better recievers.

If you look at the yards thrown against the Rams and Touchdowns scored against the Rams in the last three years, with OJ, they are almost identical to what we did. Number of passes thrown against them are no different either, I thought that number would be far greater as the Rams have zero pass rush, they are almost identical as ours. Simply put, last year they had a new coach, he had no choice but to franchise tag this kid. Atogwe and his agent are on crack if he thinks that a 29 year old FS in the NFL coming off a team that has been a bottom feeder for the last three yeas and to boot, throw in MAJOR shoulder surgery, is going to get a mega payday. Crack or swamp spirits or really bad drugs, thats what both of them are on. Let the Rams keep him, no one will care and no one will notice if he is there or not there. They are just plain bad, with OJ or without OJ.

"Pandarilla wrote:

Whatchu talkin' 'bout Willis?

I love how this is his team photo...Kinda reminiscent of the Rams as a team during his era(what with the whole deer in the headlights look). It looks like this was the exact moment he found out he was drafted by the Rams.

Great picture, that about sums up the St. louis Rams atmosphere.:up: I am not as smart as the team owners or I would be a billionaire but it seems the ones that are billionaires are a little hesitant to seperate with the coinage they are requestion. The Rams on the other hand ? Crap, they are not even sure who their owner is going to be from week to week.:lol:

"Pandarilla wrote:

Whatchu talkin' 'bout Willis?

I love how this is his team photo...Kinda reminiscent of the Rams as a team during his era(what with the whole deer in the headlights look). It looks like this was the exact moment he found out he was drafted by the Rams.

That just looks like the frightfully bewildered face of a man who just woke up from what he believed to be a horrible nightmare where he played for the St. Louis Rams.

Poor guy; somebody put him out of his misery.

"FinNasty wrote:

I don't think the teams record is a reflection on a FS's play. I mean, there are 21 other starters, not including STs. A FS can't make a big enough impact to carry a team.

try telling that to some Dolphin fans who believe we lost 4 games alone last season because of gibril wilson. He was bad too but....come on.
I'm sure there will be a fair share of those same fans that will be on a cliff because we decide to develop the talent we have and go with a guy already on the roster.

"FinNasty wrote:

I don't think the teams record is a reflection on a FS's play. I mean, there are 21 other starters, not including STs. A FS can't make a big enough impact to carry a team. They've been real bad. But your going to put that on him? And that's gunna be your main reason for not wanting him?

To me, FS is the 'new' impact position FN, with the NFL moving to being a passing league, a FS has more impact than they did back in the day.

7 millie worth of impact?

:dunno:

Im still pissed we couldnt sign Antrelle Rolle.

"Slowmotion wrote:

Antrelle wanted historic money. We already had plans for Dansby and probably Marshall.

No salary cap this year. They could have made it happen.

"Jeff wrote:

No salary cap this year. They could have made it happen.

I know it has been said a bunch of times here, and in many conversations about this topic - but not having a cap doesn't mean go buy every player you want.

This may be a sport, but it is still a business, and burning tons of cash isn't smart business. Well run businesses with smart owners/managers transcend to creating winning teams in the NFL.

if we are serious about contending this year they will pursue him w/serious deliberation

"Jeff wrote:

No salary cap this year. They could have made it happen.

And when the cap comes back then what?

"Two Tacos wrote:

And when the cap comes back then what?

If it's structured intelligently, the cap impact in future years would be of minor concern. The bigger issue is the actual spending. I think that goes back to their internal cap. How much do they value the FS position? IMO, FS is one of the top 5 impact positions, with the other four being QB, LT, #1 WR and a pressure player. So I don't see a problem with spending the money at those positions if I think he's the right guy.

This whole Atogwe thing , IMO, hinges on OJ himself. The Rams probably made what would be considered a fair offer. Out of all the teams that know him the best, they do. I never said he was responsible for helping to lose games. If he was good as most are hyping him to be then whey are the teams in his own conference, Cardinals, and they lost Rolle, 49ers, he dates Singletarys daughter, and the Seahawks, not interested in retaining his services ?

Who knows, none of us do. If he did not have recent shoulder surgery this probably would have changed the whole picture, but he did have surgery.

I am starting to believe that the Rams did make him a decent offer, not mega, but one where he can live comfortable for a long time. I also believe from what I read, him and his coach, Steve Spanuolo, have a great relationship and basically Atogwe told him that he wanted to see if he could do better and if he couldn't, then he would be back to sit down and sign with the Rams again. This being a business, what else could Spagnuolo say but, hey, go ahead, I understand.

Unless Atogwe really wants to get out of St. Louis bad, and seeing the fact no other teams are in a hurry to bid for his services. OJ Atogwe , considering the above, will be a Ram in 2010. It appears up to this point the Rams are the only ones that have offered him anything. His agent is handling this the same we any of us would do if we were selling a personal vehicle. Market it at one given price, all the while knowing the actual price you would accept for it. Its no different, all the NFL players have turned into nothing more then products these days. Whoever has the best salesman representing their product, gets the most in contract money.

"rafael wrote:

If it's structured intelligently, the cap impact in future years would be of minor concern. The bigger issue is the actual spending. I think that goes back to their internal cap. How much do they value the FS position? IMO, FS is one of the top 5 impact positions, with the other four being QB, LT, #1 WR and a pressure player. So I don't see a problem with spending the money at those positions if I think he's the right guy.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think you can just structure it so that it all comes in this year. I think it is more likely than not that we have a cap again next year. And if the owners get their way, it will be a lower amount than it would have been if the last system had been extended. I don't see the player’s pool of the revenue not shrinking a little. I could be wrong. I think the internal cap is a reflection of what they believe the future cap will be. This is based on nothing but speculation on my part.

This is comments from today up in St. Louis. As I thought, the kid is shopping and the Rams appear ready to match any decent offer given him but not go overboard. In the end I think the Rams are going to be his only choice. I have to think if he is as good as some think then the shoulder surgery is a big red flag for a team to sign him to a large contract. Or, as I think, he is no better or worse then what the supposed interested teams already have on their rosters. I still say if he was as much as an impact player as hawked, teams in his own division would be stepping over themselves for his services. You guys understand how I feel that way ?

Quiet on the Atogwe front
Saturday makes the fourth day that safety Oshiomogho Atogwe has been a free agent, and the only sound has been the door slamming shut by supposedly interested teams.

Several teams had been rumored to be interested in pursuing Atogwe, but several including Dallas, San Francisco and Minnesota have claimed they won’t pursue him. Miami and Detroit have been other teams mentioned, and no one from either team has yet to comment on their alleged interest.

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said, “I’m ready to go into our season with the safeties we have.” Vikings coach Brad Childress said Friday the team “has “no interest.” A report out of Detroit said Atogwe’s asking price is “extremely high.”

As for the notion that Atogwe is looking to leave the Rams because he was upset by the original low tender, general manager Billy Devaney said, “I don’t think that’s the case. He was probably disappointed, but he understood the business part of it.”

Devaney acknowledged that if another team came forward with a huge offer, the Rams would likely be moving on without him, but so far, that hasn’t been the case.

Concluded Devaney, “O.J. knows how we feel about him. We are a better team with him here. Our hope is that after he tests the market, he will come back to us. We’re trying to get to a happy medium.”

"Two Tacos wrote:

I see what you're saying, but I don't think you can just structure it so that it all comes in this year. I think it is more likely than not that we have a cap again next year. And if the owners get their way, it will be a lower amount than it would have been if the last system had been extended. I don't see the player’s pool of the revenue not shrinking a little. I could be wrong. I think the internal cap is a reflection of what they believe the future cap will be. This is based on nothing but speculation on my part.

No, you couldn't structure it so it all comes out this year unless he just signed a 1 year deal hoping to land a future pay day like Pisa T. did last season. (This was mentioned as a possibility by NFP).

But you could structure it so that his cap number going forward is substantially less $4 million or so I think is the most he may get. I think if you got his cap number going forward into the $2 mill - $2.5 mill range then that is very comfortable for the team for a near pro bowl player at a high impact position.

And that's how I rate OJ. I see him as a borderline pro bowler. I think he could make a pro bowl if he has a high turnover season and Reed or Polamalu are injured. He is certainly capable of being a ball hawk. But I see him as a step below the top echelon. He's a smart player who rarely misses tackles. He has good ball skills and good anticipation. He also has nice range. He can be an intimidator against the WR going over the middle, but he's really just adequate against the run. He usually gets the guy down but isn't stuffing the bigger running backs. IMO if you have that kind of a player in a scheme that lets him stay back you will win a lot of games. And I disagree with the disparaging remarks in this thread. If we had that last year, I think there's no doubt we win another 3-4 games.

Now looking at what we have, I see Culver as OJ without the range and the ball hawking skill, but he is smart and doesn't miss many tackles. I see Clemons as having the range and I expect he'll be a fairly consistent tackler. I don't think he'll ever be the natural play maker that OJ is or having the ball skills. We still have to wait and see if he'll be a smart player back there. How much do you value having the play maker at S? IMO that's difference between having OJ and sticking with what we have or may have.

"rafael wrote:

No, you couldn't structure it so it all comes out this year unless he just signed a 1 year deal hoping to land a future pay day like Pisa T. did last season. (This was mentioned as a possibility by NFP).

But you could structure it so that his cap number going forward is substantially less $4 million or so I think is the most he may get. I think if you got his cap number going forward into the $2 mill - $2.5 mill range then that is very comfortable for the team for a near pro bowl player at a high impact position.

And that's how I rate OJ. I see him as a borderline pro bowler. I think he could make a pro bowl if he has a high turnover season and Reed or Polamalu are injured. He is certainly capable of being a ball hawk. But I see him as a step below the top echelon. He's a smart player who rarely misses tackles. He has good ball skills and good anticipation. He also has nice range. He can be an intimidator against the WR going over the middle, but he's really just adequate against the run. He usually gets the guy down but isn't stuffing the bigger running backs. IMO if you have that kind of a player in a scheme that lets him stay back you will win a lot of games. And I disagree with the disparaging remarks in this thread. If we had that last year, I think there's no doubt we win another 3-4 games.

Now looking at what we have, I see Culver as OJ without the range and the ball hawking skill, but he is smart and doesn't miss many tackles. I see Clemons as having the range and I expect he'll be a fairly consistent tackler. I don't think he'll ever be the natural play maker that OJ is or having the ball skills. We still have to wait and see if he'll be a smart player back there. How much do you value having the play maker at S? IMO that's difference between having OJ and sticking with what we have or may have.

Then why in an uncapped year, in his own division, the NFC West which is admittedly most likely the weakest division in the NFL, doesn't their coaches and GMs and Owners jump on this potential " pro bowl " player ?

Especially the Cardinals, they lost Rolle and do not want to replace him with Atogwe ? Does not make sense at all. Never said the kid was not a good player but a borderline pro bowl player ? If he was that close to borderline, 31 NFL teams would be lining up at his agents door way since 30 seconds after the bidding was permitted to commence. Would not mind him on the team at all but by no means is this guy worthy of a huge contract that apparently him and his agent are looking for. If he was worthy, he would have signed one by now. How long did Rolle last on the open market ? IMO, he is not as good as Rolle would have been in our D.

"mommabilly wrote:

Then why in an uncapped year, in his own division, the NFC West which is admittedly most likely the weakest division in the NFL, doesn't their coaches and GMs and Owners jump on this potential " pro bowl " player ?

Especially the Cardinals, they lost Rolle and do not want to replace him with Atogwe ? Does not make sense at all. Never said the kid was not a good player but a borderline pro bowl player ? If he was that close to borderline, 31 NFL teams would be lining up at his agents door way since 30 seconds after the bidding was permitted to commence. Would not mind him on the team at all but by no means is this guy worthy of a huge contract that apparently him and his agent are looking for. If he was worthy, he would have signed one by now. How long did Rolle last on the open market ? IMO, he is not as good as Rolle would have been in our D.

Several reasons, the economy, the looming lockout, the valuation of the S position, his injury history, the fact that he produced fewer TOs last year than in previous years, etc. And saying it doesn't make sense for a borderline pro bowl S is just ignoring the dynamics of the NFL. You have to look no further than our own Yeremiah Bell. He was also a borderline pro bowl S with an injury history. He had never made the pro bowl when he signed his deal. He did make it last year after Bethea dropped out with the new pro bowl/SB rule. He was a little older than OJ but otherwise very comparable. As an unrestricted FA he received little or no interest on the market mostly due to the injury history and the position (the fact is that S has one of the lowest franchise tag values, avg. of the top 5 at the position, ahead of only TE and P/K). He signed a 1 year deal with the Dolphins in 2008 and then was rewarded with a long tern, although modest deal that averaged $2.5 mill/per year in guaranteed money and only $3 mill/per year total (although incentives could get it up as high $5 mill/ per).

It's very possible that OJ may follow the same route and hope to have a great 2010 (like Bell did in 2008) and then get the long term deal the following year.

Where he goes and what deal he signs all depends on what OJ is looking for. One year deal outside the Rams may just be what the Dr. ordered for him. If he is unsure of his shoulder and the Rams are offering what appears to be a decent deal over a period of years, then that is his best choice. I am still in the opinion that if he is as good as some hawk him to be, then any team in the NFL West would be glad to have his services which is plainly not the case here. I really think he wants to stay with the Rams. He just wanted to shop around and see if he could up there offer some. The statement I posted by their GM makes that somewhat clear. If he is offered something better then what the Rams offered they would look at it. If he is offered something out of the ballpark from what the Rams offered, they would move on.

As of yet, he has not even gotten a base hit no less a home run offer. This tells me most teams simply do not want to take the chance on him. One year deal at a reasonable price ? sign him. His agent and him are looking for more then that though, have to be , if several teams have openly made it known " The asking price is too high "

I do not know a lot in life but I do know, I am not a billionaire and if employees representing billionaires are saying his asking price is too high, I have to believe them.

"Killerphins wrote:

try telling that to some Dolphin fans who believe we lost 4 games alone last season because of gibril wilson. He was bad too but....come on.
I'm sure there will be a fair share of those same fans that will be on a cliff because we decide to develop the talent we have and go with a guy already on the roster.

Oh, a FS can cost a team a loss... especially when they just give up moster play after monster play like Wilson did.

But in terms of carrying a team to wins... its pretty hard for a FS to do, unless they are HoF INT for TDs all over the place type... like Ed Reed in his prime...

"Pariah wrote:

I know it has been said a bunch of times here, and in many conversations about this topic - but not having a cap doesn't mean go buy every player you want.

This may be a sport, but it is still a business, and burning tons of cash isn't smart business. Well run businesses with smart owners/managers transcend to creating winning teams in the NFL.

Dont put words in my mouth. Where in my post did it say anything about buying every player? Stop assuming, and read what I actually said. I was talking about ONE player.

"mommabilly wrote:

It appears I am not the only one that is not interested in paying the Kings Ransom he and his agent are evidently looking for. Neighbor down the block is a HUGE Rams fan and in DVRd just about every game in the last three years. OJ does have take aways but since we were interested spent some time and a few six packs at his house and believe me, OJ also gets burnt pretty bad by better recievers.

If you look at the yards thrown against the Rams and Touchdowns scored against the Rams in the last three years, with OJ, they are almost identical to what we did. Number of passes thrown against them are no different either, I thought that number would be far greater as the Rams have zero pass rush, they are almost identical as ours. Simply put, last year they had a new coach, he had no choice but to franchise tag this kid. Atogwe and his agent are on crack if he thinks that a 29 year old FS in the NFL coming off a team that has been a bottom feeder for the last three yeas and to boot, throw in MAJOR shoulder surgery, is going to get a mega payday. Crack or swamp spirits or really bad drugs, thats what both of them are on. Let the Rams keep him, no one will care and no one will notice if he is there or not there. They are just plain bad, with OJ or without OJ.

Whether the Rams are just as good of a team results wise with or without them, or whether they're pass defense is just as bad as ours with him, you're talking about team results. If the pass rush sucks, and the CBs suck... the pass defense is gunna suck regardless of the FS.

Now, I haven't seen him play, so if you've watched lots of his games, you know more about his ability than I do. But you sound like you are describing a horrible player, and that goes against everything I've read about him. I think he could be a very good player yet not worth elite money. If he comes down from his asking price a bit, he could still be a great addition to our team, and a major upgrade from the garbage we have.

"FinNasty wrote:

Whether the Rams are just as good of a team results wise with or without them, or whether they're pass defense is just as bad as ours with him, you're talking about team results. If the pass rush sucks, and the CBs suck... the pass defense is gunna suck regardless of the FS.

Now, I haven't seen him play, so if you've watched lots of his games, you know more about his ability than I do. But you sound like you are describing a horrible player, and that goes against everything I've read about him. I think he could be a very good player yet not worth elite money. If he comes down from his asking price a bit, he could still be a great addition to our team, and a major upgrade from the garbage we have.

No, I do not think in any way that Atogweis a horrible player at all. I just think he is not on the cusp of being a pro bowler. Until his shoulder injury from what I can tell, is he played every game. Have not watched a lot of games, just the ones my neighbor has on his DVR. He is a die hard fan and even thinks OJ is not worth the 7 mil a year they tagged him with last year. Apparently there was a coaching search and this guy Spanuolo did not get hired until late Jan, so he had no choice but to tag Atogwe or lose him.

From what the neighbor tells me, the pass rush has sukked the last few years. Evidently they had several first round draft picks on Defense not work out at all. I know we need help at the S position but again, if Atogwe was as good as being hyped, why aren't the other teams in the NFL that need FS help even interested in him ? Thats my question. The only answer I can come up with, they are asking far too much money for his services. If he was as good as advertised, Danny Boy in Washington or Jerry Jones would have beat each other up already with the bidding.

Rolle did not last too long did he ? Why is this guy still around, one has to ask himself.