Article: why can't Miami score TD's anymore...
64 replies
cobrajetNew MemberOP"The Dolphins are at 15 games and counting under Chad Henne without exceeding the 25 points they scored against the lowly Tampa Bay Bucs last season. This year, their high output is 23."
"The Dolphins have yet to put up a three-touchdown game this year on offense, and their last three-touchdown outburst with Henne actually playing more than a half — Tyler Thigpen led the comeback that helped them put up three TDs against the Steelers in the 2009 finale"
I still say the problem with the Dolphins offense is Henne, but not his arm. It's his feet. He is so flat footed and slow the LB's are all in coverage, and when you have a QB that still insists on throwing the ball with LB's in coverage instead of running for the first down that's a second string QB.
This is why Thigpen came off the bench in a Henne failure and scored so well. The LB's and the DB's had no idea what to expect from him because his feet were live. Henne is a great passer but is one dimensional and dead from the knee down.
They either need to solve this issue with him or replace him with Thiggy. I don't think Thiggy is better than Henne but I think his feet and agility allow us to have a more diverse offense which is what we need. We are doing all we can do with a "stand-still" QB
BicketyBamforum_veteranMarino did pretty good for a guy that rarely ran with the ball. Just sayin'
-Ed-
cobrajetNew Member"BicketyBam wrote:
Marino did pretty good for a guy that rarely ran with the ball. Just sayin'
........and if you remember he never could have a running game because he was so slow with his feet the LB's were waiting for the RB in the hole. The last few years Marino was INT prone and deathly slow, and this looks like a repeat of the end days of Marino.
Imagine if Sanchez stood still - what would you have? a loser.
BicketyBamforum_veteran"Shulaboy wrote:
........and if you remember he never could have a running game because he was so slow with his feet the LB's were waiting for the RB in the hole.
I did not know that.
-Ed-
rdhstlr23subscriberI don't think it has anything to do with that. It's all about redzone offense.
First, we can't run the ball as well as we used to. It puts us in long 2nd and goal to go's. Second, we don't do a good enough job of trying to get Brandon Marshall the ball in those situations. The three times I remember, the Vikings game, the Jets game (last drive) and this past game (Steelers), both balls were poorly thrown to Marshall who had single coverage. The first ball, Vikings game was a poorly thrown ball. The second ball, was a play people thought Brandon was gassed, but I think it was still a poorly thrown ball, and third was a back shoulder fade that was a poorly thrown ball--too hard. Those are three Henne mistakes. He has to allow Marshall an opportunity to make the play. He didn't on any of the three pass plays in the redzone. Henne's accuracy in tight spaces is very inconsistent, whereas Pennington's is great.
rdhstlr23subscriber"Shulaboy wrote:
........and if you remember he never could have a running game because he was so slow with his feet the LB's were waiting for the RB in the hole. The last few years Marino was INT prone and deathly slow, and this looks like a repeat of the end days of Marino.
That's just flat out ridiculous. You're saying the reason Marino never had a running game was because he couldn't run? Or he couldn't move around?
I'm not going to name the million QBs that have had a successful, power running game that were much more stationary in the pocket than Chad Henne and Dan Marino.
You don't think it had anything to do with, not caring about a running game from a philosphy standpoint? Or poor RB personnel? Or that the offensive line was better at pass blocking? Any one of a million reasons other than Dan Marino couldn't move and the LB's were waiting for the RB in the hole.
cobrajetNew Member"BicketyBam wrote:
Marino did pretty good for a guy that rarely ran with the ball. Just sayin'
...and how many superbowls did he win? NONE! The game is too fast today. All QB's must be fast with their feet. The days of the "stand still" pocket passer who needs 6 seconds of protection in the pocket are dead!
BicketyBamforum_veteran"Shulaboy wrote:
........Imagine if Sanchez stood still - what would you have? a loser.
I see your point, but Sanchez doesn't have the skills and arm that Marino had. But no doubt Sanchez's feet are one of his better attributes.
-Ed-
ether79New Member"Shulaboy wrote:
...and how many superbowls did he win? NONE! The game is too fast today. All QB's must be fast with their feet. The days of the "stand still" pocket passer who needs 6 seconds of protection in the pocket are dead!
Marino was a "stand still" passer? He had some of the best pocket movement and presence I have ever seen. How many Superbowls have been one with a QB that "moves" around alot recently? Tell me one....
cobrajetNew Member"rdhstlr23 wrote:
That's just flat out ridiculous. You're saying the reason Marino never had a running game was because he couldn't run? Or he couldn't move around?
I'm not going to name the million QBs that have had a successful, power running game that were much more stationary in the pocket than Chad Henne and Dan Marino.
You don't think it had anything to do with, not caring about a running game from a philosphy standpoint? Or poor RB personnel? Or that the offensive line was better at pass blocking? Any one of a million reasons other than Dan Marino couldn't move and the LB's were waiting for the RB in the hole.
Marino was a great passer but by nature he was one dimensional, his ball mechanics and his footwork in handing the ball off were terrible. Shula used to joke about it. Not to run down Marino at all, but the point is that Henne needs to rollout, play fake, bootleg, ball on the hip or anything that gets the LB's out of coverage. One dimensional QB's are a thing of the past. The game is too fast today.
He has proven that he is a very accurate passer but this offense needs to come to life. An offensive play should conceal itself until it unfolds. This offense is too predictable because as soon as the ball is snapped the defense knows what it is. Henne standing is a pass and Henne crouching is a run. Henne is a LB's delight because he is so easy to read.
MikeHonchosubscriberBig TD's are always welcome.
Headcoach material wouldn’t want to work somewhere they’re not trusted with actual football decisions.
NJFINSFAN1luxury_boxThe main reason is we can't run the ball, combination of poor blocking and poor RB play.
The Marino was to slow to have a running game just had me laughing its so silly.
cobrajetNew Member"ether79 wrote:
Marino was a "stand still" passer? He had some of the best pocket movement and presence I have ever seen. How many Superbowls have been one with a QB that "moves" around alot recently? Tell me one....
Didn't the Steelers win a SB pretty recently? Did their QB just run in a bootleg for a TD? The defense rests.
Vendigosubscriber"NJFINSFAN1 wrote:
The Marino was to slow to have a running game just had me laughing its so silly.
The OP has a certain point. Unfortunaly, it's buried beneath a lot of nonsense. It is difficult to establish a consistently succesful running game if you have a great QB. See Indy. See New England. They've tried. And they've tried hard. QB dependant teams are easy to gameplan against when it comes to the run. However, that's not the case with Miami, at least not yet.
We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as long as he does not admire it. The only reason for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely. All art is quite useless.
NJFINSFAN1luxury_box"Shulaboy wrote:
Didn't the Steelers win a SB pretty recently? Did their QB just run in a bootleg for a TD? The defense rests.
Did Johnny Unitas run?
Len Dawson?
Joe Namath?
Bob Griese?
Jim Plunkett?
Phil Simms?
Kurt Warner?
I can go on, the defense is unrested.
Marino also had 9 QB sneaks for TD's
NJFINSFAN1luxury_box"Vendigo wrote:
The OP has a certain point. Unfortunaly, it's buried beneath a lot of nonsense. It is difficult to establish a consistently succesful running game if you have a great QB. See Indy. See New England. They've tried. And they've tried hard. QB dependant teams are easy to gameplan against when it comes to the run. However, that's not the case with Miami, at least not yet.
We never really tired to get a running game with Marino, our runs were screens to Tony Nathan. Sure they talked about it, but we were a pass blocking team.
Yes when you have a great QB, you use him more than the running game, it has nothing to do with the fact that he was slow.
FinFan_Est.1984New MemberHow about hopalong Manning, I mean Peyton Manning? He is an outstanding runner......not
FIRE DAN HENNING BAND WAGON!
"Shulaboy wrote:
........and if you remember he never could have a running game because he was so slow with his feet the LB's were waiting for the RB in the hole. The last few years Marino was INT prone and deathly slow, and this looks like a repeat of the end days of Marino.
Imagine if Sanchez stood still - what would you have? a loser.
I am going to guess you didn't really watch Marino all that much.
Marino had 3% interception percentage for his career...
1996 = 2.4%
1997 = 2.0%
1998 = 2.8%
1999 = 4.6%
The reason Marino had a 4.6% in 1999 (his last year) was b/c he hurt his shoulder against NE in game 5. He got pulled after throwing a lame duck interception on his 3rd pass that game. He missed 5 weeks and when he came back he threw "5" against the Cowboys and 12 overall in the final 6 games. He simply did not have the ARM strength and was rushed back into the lineup thinking Marino at far less than 100% was still Miami's best chance of winning.
ether79New Member"Shulaboy wrote:
Didn't the Steelers win a SB pretty recently? Did their QB just run in a bootleg for a TD? The defense rests.
I will give you the last one and a few scattered in amongst the years, but a majority are passers who 1 either have a stellar run game and defense, or 2. are amazing "pocket" passers. It was a bootleg, but it was a designed one, just like Henne runs at times, except Ben obviously is more comfortable looking down the field than Henne.
I would prefer my qb to stand in the pocket and wait for a play to develop instead of taking off at the first sign of danger
ether79New Member"Vendigo wrote:
The OP has a certain point. Unfortunaly, it's buried beneath a lot of nonsense. It is difficult to establish a consistently succesful running game if you have a great QB. See Indy. See New England. They've tried. And they've tried hard. QB dependant teams are easy to gameplan against when it comes to the run. However, that's not the case with Miami, at least not yet.
Definitely the case, but I would say that the years those teams won their respective SB's it was due to several things, not just a great QB. The Colts defense was on fire during the playoffs the year they one, and they had a pretty established run game. Of course NE's wins were really on the back of their defense and a pretty good running game. Of course Brady made the throws when needed, and excelled at doing so.
smahtazforum_veteran"Shulaboy wrote:
Didn't the Steelers win a SB pretty recently? Did their QB just run in a bootleg for a TD? The defense rests.
Brees - pocket passer
Roethlisberger - fullback
E. Manning - pocket passer
P. Manning – pocket passer
Roethlisberger again
Brady – pocket passer
Brady again
Johnson – pocket passer
Brady again
Dilfer - pocket passer
Warner - pocket passer
Are you seeing a pattern here?
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. ~ John Wooden
adamprez2003forum_veteran"smahtaz wrote:
Brees - pocket passer
Roethlisberger - fullback
P. Manning - pocket passer
E. Manning – pocket passer
Roethlisberger again
Brady – pocket passer
Brady again
Johnson – pocket passer
Brady again
Dilfer - pocket passer
Warner - pocket passerAre you seeing a pattern here?
fullback :lol:
2019 DRAFT WISH LIST
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5) DE Shareef Miller - Penn State
7) C Sean Krepcz - Nevada
7) RB Wes Hills - Slippery Rock
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MikeHonchosubscriber"BlameItOnTheHenne wrote:
Chad Henne must become Michael Vick or else.
Doesn't this put the wolves in jeopardy?
Headcoach material wouldn’t want to work somewhere they’re not trusted with actual football decisions.
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