Armando takes front office to task

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Muck, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    See what you did there with that avatar..
     
  2. PigMuffin

    PigMuffin New Member

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    Fans always came to those 1:00 games. We sold out every game no matter what time we played. Why? Cause we won. We were one of if not the best team record wise in sept and October in the NFL and the fans came. Ever since we built that practice bubble and decided to move up our games is when we lost that edge. I look at decades worth of game results to show that it was a huge plus for us. Ross wants to take that away from us. I have issues with it
     
  3. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'd like to see the NAVY build a practice bubble for SEALS to be more comfortable in during BUDs.

    It's pretty sad when the opposing offense uses your "home field advantage" against you.
     
  4. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    mando deserves a rare fist pump
     
  5. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    He deserves to be fisted in some manner...
     
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  6. PigMuffin

    PigMuffin New Member

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    Yep. I'm sure packers, pats and bears fans are clamoring for a domed stadium so they will be more comfortable during those cold snowy winter games
     
  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Justin Smiley was quite good for a year and a half and there were negligible salary cap consequences for letting him go when they did.
     
  8. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This article does once again suck, and there's a lot of people willing to buy whatever negative comment is made regardless if it's accurate or reasonable.

    Benny Sapp didn't in any sense get scapegoated. If you drop that 99 yard reception, he still gave up more catches than anyone else on the field in that game, and wouldn't be far from giving up the most yardage. He got absolutely dumped on his merits.

    Romanticizing Polite does not favors for anything. He had some pretty good games in 2009, but he got a whole lot of mileage out of the MNF Jets game. 2010 he was flat out bad, and he was bad in pre-season. A frankly, a fair amount of the short yardage situations we're talking about Polite isn't really even likely to help on. You're not going to hand your fullback the ball in a goal-line or otherwise stacked short yardage situation. That's not how Polite was ever used here.
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    our misery at home has nothing to do with not playing at 1 oclock....At the games at 1 oclock the stadium is barely half full for introductions even if it is a sellout...Once they get in their seats midway first quarter, their too uncomfortable to do whats neccessary to provide energy for their team, so they sit on their ***....Imo, it really doesn't matter, the place is a joke of a stadium for both football programs.
     
  10. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    The Dolphins have a 0.833 winning percentage in games where the temp is 83 degrees or higher, so either the heat is an advantage for them and doesn't bother the fans, or the energy from the fans to do what is necessary to provide energy for the team is overrated. And 7 of those losses have come since that damn practice bubble has been built.
     
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  11. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Time to burst the bubble.
     
  12. PigMuffin

    PigMuffin New Member

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    I think you contradict yourself. On one hand you say it's not an advantage and on the other you say that those 1:00 games are more uncomfortable on the fans. If it's as tough on the fans as you say, it's many times over more difficult for the players. your use of hyperbole is greater than mine. I remember from back in the OB days the stadium was always rocking for 1:00 games. Those games gave us a bigger edge than the cold weather games gave to the northern teams. The cold was just uncomfortable. The heat sapped your will to play. We had as big as a home field advantage as any team. Ross wants to remove it. Youre ok with it. I'm not
     
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  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I said no such thing, I'am sayin us losing 11 out of 12 has nothing to do with 4 oclock start times..
     
  14. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    One, I didn't say salary cap, I said money; and two, the fact that you're talking about the good 1.5 seasons we got out of Smiley rather than the good 5 seasons we got out of Smiley speaks volumes.
     
  15. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why do we give a **** about money that has nothing to do with the salary cap?
     
  16. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Because being frugal (diplomatic word choice there) is sort of a core philosophy of Parcells and therefore Ireland. Parcells even said on his ESPN Draft Confidential special that a big reason the Dolphins went away from Matt Ryan was the premium pricing of quarterbacks.

    So if we're going to sit here and talk honestly about the successes and failures of Dolphins personnel acquisitions since 2008, then measuring cost-effectiveness is very important. That means more than just dead cap space: it also means looking at opportunity cost. You can shrug at the total dollars spent and deem it an irrelevant subject compared to cap management and available space, but then you conveniently shut the door on the topic of what else could have been done with that money, if anything. And given how you've bashed people who thought we should have signed Jason Brown instead of Jake Grove, you clearly consider that topic legitimate when it gives you a chance to, well, bash people.

    Yeah, this regime's penchant for wasting money on players who come nowhere near living up to their salary or playing out the length of their deals is an important issue by their own standards and methods.
     
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  17. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Cameron Wake
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  18. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box


    Complaining about 1 oclock heat is for PU$$ies! Whatever time the game is! Rain, sleet or hail. Its FOOTBALL...
     
  19. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I freaking LOVE going to 1 oclock games!!
     
  20. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    The tight end and safety positions have not been a priority and it shows.
     
  21. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    More than likely, I'd think he ran out of time. I mean, it was a beautiful Saturday in my part of Florida. :lol:

    This one was more about recent moves.
     
  22. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    I don't buy the practice bubble as being evil.

    Remember, the reason Saban had it built is because he was losing a ton of practices to the summer rains (e.g. lightning) in 2005.

    Whether or not he and his successors have used it to escape the heat, that's another matter. And I don't think it's wrong to use it periodically.
     
  23. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    Conversely if they were going to leave the CB position alone one would think that we would have invested more in our secondary, where we have a second year starter who's been fair at best in Clemons, a run-stuffing veteran SS who isn't strong in coverage in Bell, and the up-and-down (so far this season mostly down) Rashad Jones. If we weren't going to address CB then we should have at least looked at getting a more dynamic and play making FS ... and I liked Clemons for the most part last year, but I felt like he was "just a guy" out there most of the time.
     
  24. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I'm not someone that particularly likes the 4pm starts either, but I do wonder how much of the drop-off in performance can be attributed to:

    a) We just haven't been a very good team, especially on offense;
    b) Player conditioning has gotten much better around the NFL;

    I think the inability to run the ball effectively for so many years, and/or the absence of quality Quarterbacking since Marino retired, has been an important factor. Except for some notable exceptions, this team has been relatively unable to either pound the ball consistently to wear the opponent down, or jump out to a big lead to make it easier to wear the opposition down. To a lesser extent I also think that the gap between the conditioning the Dolphins used to be in relative to the rest of the NFL has shrunk, and what advantage the Dolphins still have playing in the heat and humidity has often been negated by the team not being talented enough to take advantage of it.

    I'd also be interested in knowing how often the bubble has been used, and under what conditions. My understanding has been that it's there primarily for downpours or thunderstorms. How often have they actually used it to escape the heat??
     
  25. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    Bingo!
     
  26. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box


    ding ding ding
     
  27. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That doesn't make any sense at all. Their costs were dictated by their draft spots. There's no slot-breaking quarterback premium.

    Absolutely, measuring cost effectiveness and opportunity cost is of supreme importance when it comes to this. I'd absolutely welcome such a thing, because no one is really doing it at all.

    Take Justin Smiley. Here's the list of free agents that off-season at Guard:
    http://blog.chron.com/fanblogtexans...-agents-bring-your-appetite-this-is-a-buffet/

    I've also been quite clear in saying while Jason Brown has not played very well for the Rams, and we're much better off in the position we're in than paying his contact and him giving us that play(Maybe he'd have been better here?), I've also said that Matt Birk would have been a better option.
     
  28. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but this list proves you don't have a clue as to what I was talking about.

    The point isn't to deny that this regime has brought in good or even great players. They have. The point is that their failures may be overtaking their successes, because they aren't being cost effective per their own methods and desires.

    For example, take Jake Grove vs Jason Brown. We went with Jake Grove over Brown, who went to St. Louis. Brown was the opportunity cost of Grove. Grove played in 12 games, starting 10, for us until he was cut after one season for Joe Berger. Brown, however, has played two full seasons and started both games so far this season for the Rams. Disgustipate says that Brown was so bad at C for the Rams that he was experimented with at RG, while ignoring the obvious—that Brown is still in the league playing out his contract in some capacity, while Grove is sitting at home on his couch.

    So let's say that we signed Brown instead of Grove. He starts at C for one year, Sparano's OL tinkering kicks in, and Brown moves to RG. So the OL then becomes Berger-Brown-Carey. What happens here? Well, first off, we likely don't use a 3rd round pick on John Jerry, because we have Jason Brown playing RG. So we play out the season with McQuistan as a backup at RG, and since Brown played all 16 games, McQuistan stays on the bench. Then we get to the 2011 draft, and we still draft Mike Pouncey because Joe Berger is still not a starting caliber player. We simultaneously do not need to move Carey to RG or sign Colombo to play RT, because we only need to fix one OL spot, not three. So the line becomes Pouncey-Brown-Carey.

    So, which scenario is better?

    Grove scenario: sign Jake Grove, sign Pat McQuistan, draft John Jerry, draft Mike Pouncey, restructure and move Vernon Carey, sign Marc Colombo, or…
    Brown scenario: sign Jason Brown, sign Pat McQuistan, draft Mike Pouncey.

    This is what I mean by this regime not being cost-effective. Saying that we have Brandon Marshall in uniform doesn't invalidate the above. In fact, it has nothing to do with the above. (Unless you think Marshall is overpaid or wasn't worth the two 2nd round picks we traded for him, in which case, it does.)

    This is false. Quarterbacks usually receive a 10-15% premium on their draft slot because the position is so important.
     
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  29. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I hate to agree with Armando, but I do agree with most of this article. I didn't have a problem with the Polite cut, but I did see all the stuff in the secondary and with Edds as dysfunctional.
     
  30. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That big mass of stuff you're claiming are somehow directly attached to Brown vs. Grove aren't really opportunity costs.

    Also, I'm not quite sure why you are calling Jason Brown still in the league and playing a positive for the Rams. He's playing poorly, the Rams seem to feel they are obligated to start him regardless, and he's costing a lot against the salary cap. Jake Grove was an overall positive when he played, and outside of that he's been not the slightest bit detrimental to the team. His salary cap cost was negligible, and we avoided bad play.

    I don't know why you think moving Brown to Right Guard would somehow be a given or even logical conclusion. It doesn't really mitigate his problems as a player, and this team has been very consistent in releasing players that did not live up to contracts, and would have had the same opportunity to release Brown with limited consequences as they did Grove. Nor are you really addressing Left Guard, or the need for another Left Guard, or that John Jerry was originally envisioned as a Left Guard. Nor are you addressing that Carey's move to RG appears to be as much a result of Carey declining as it does a "need".

    You're making a tremendous amount of illogical assumptions, both from the standpoint of what a "rational actor" would do if you wanna get all economical or if you're suggesting it's what our front office would do. That's not to mention the scope of the discussion really should be Jason Brown vs. Jake Grove.


    Ok, I'm not quite sure where you're getting that from in practice.
     
  31. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    omg did anyone see all the empty seats at the begining of the game? Must be the 1 oclock starts.... lol
     
  32. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    the poor house
    Who here would rather have Wann-Spiel than this mess??? qouted by fintastic I damn sure would rather have wanny at least his guys played hard and smart . sparano just flat ous sucks and I would rather have Keith Byars or Don Strock as head coach hell i am so pissed off I would be happier then Lamar Thomas as a head coach then these clowns that are impersinating as head coaches.
     
  33. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Absolutely no one should. This coaching staff should be fired, but it's not even remotely close.
     

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