Armando Reporting We're Trading Up for Joe Burrow

"texanphinatic wrote:

Going public gives leverage to Burrow, keeping it under wraps does not.

It doesn't have to be about leverage if both sides agree to a solution.

Life doesnt have to be about getting an advantage on everyone you deal with.

If Burrow outright says he isn't going to go to the Bengals, does that add character questions to Burrow for some teams?

"Wilkimania wrote:

If Burrow outright says he isn't going to go to the Bengals, does that add character questions to Burrow for some teams?

No, because it's a terrible organization with a cheap owner.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

It doesn't have to be about leverage if both sides agree to a solution.

Life doesnt have to be about getting an advantage on everyone you deal with.

This isn't "life" - it's a highly specific and specialized situation. The only leverage a player has in this case is to refuse to play. The Bengals hold the majority of the cards here, not Burrow. His only real option is to go nuclear - we saw it with Elway and with Eli, they were both very clear about what they wanted. There is really no incentive for Burrow to keep it quiet to benefit a team he has no intention of playing for. If he is sure that he will not play for Cinci, then make it public so the onus is on them to make the trade. Otherwise he runs the risk of the Bengals putting on a show without really doing anything to make it happen.

Ultimately, I believe this idea that Burrow doesn't want to play for Cinci is just a fantasy pro-Burrow fans have and isn't based in reality.

"texanphinatic wrote:

No, because it's a terrible organization with a cheap owner.

This isn't "life" - it's a highly specific and specialized situation. The only leverage a player has in this case is to refuse to play. The Bengals hold the majority of the cards here, not Burrow. His only real option is to go nuclear - we saw it with Elway and with Eli, they were both very clear about what they wanted. There is really no incentive for Burrow to keep it quiet to benefit a team he has no intention of playing for. If he is sure that he will not play for Cinci, then make it public so the onus is on them to make the trade. Otherwise he runs the risk of the Bengals putting on a show without really doing anything to make it happen.

Ultimately, I believe this idea that Burrow doesn't want to play for Cinci is just a fantasy pro-Burrow fans have and isn't based in reality.

You have no idea how many times the situation I have described may or may not have played out. The thing about keeping things private is that they dont leak and you never know.

Eli had to because SD was going to draft him anyway. Had they met and decided a trade was mutually beneficial it wouldnt have been necessary.

FWIW I'm not saying Burrow doesn't want to be a Bengal. I'm saying his lack of public crying doesnt mean that he is okay with it.

Good. The people running the team would be irresponsible not to simply attempt that.

Smokescreen. If you build and coach a world class o-line then most any QB in this year's draft will outplay Burrow on the Bengals.

"Hooligan wrote:

Smokescreen. If you build and coach a world class o-line then most any QB in this year's draft will outplay Burrow on the Bengals.

But what is the probability of assembling a world-class offensive line, keeping it healthy, and keeping it intact at its level of play amidst free agency, retirement, and the expected decline in players' performance? We're talking about a unit of five players here, the largest unit on the field.

Building a world-class offensive line isn't anything any team should expect to do and plan its personnel moves around. Every team should plan its personnel moves around having only an average offensive line, since an average offensive line is what every team in the league is most likely to have.

One reason why I'd put a little more stock into this report is because of how active the FO is being in free agency. Which, to me could indicate they are planning to part with some draft capital. Hope I'm wrong about that, but it's just my gut.

If it were me I'd stay put at #5 and take the BPA with an emphasis on the QB position. If Tua falls, I'd grab him. If not, weigh Herbert (assuming he's still available) against an edge guy or a lineman. Be judicious with all those high round draft picks. Don't just give 'em away!

I don't want to root for a team that sets it's sights on "average" and then prays for lucky bounces.

"Hooligan wrote:

I don't want to root for a team that sets it's sights on "average" and then prays for lucky bounces.

That's not what's happening when you simply make the assessment of the kind of quarterback play you need as a function of expected offensive line play.

Burrow to me is a guy who either will become a superstar or will be out of the league in a few short years. I dont think there’s an inbetween for him. His potential is very high, and he’s got the stuff to make him special. But failure to be anything short of great will hit him hard. Same goes for Baker Mayfield if he dont get his shit together. They have strong characters, and if this level doesnt work out for them, they wont have the right attitude to be a backup quarterback.

herbert has all the tools, im not sure if he has that killer inside him but i do know he has all the tools like Tannehill does, to have a long career in the NFL.

Trevor Lawrence next season will be labeled a once in a generation prospect. He’s got the total package and is almost as cant miss as it gets. The fact that he has to play one more season of college football is ridiculous to me, he is man amongst children at this point.

Our picks are the only way to unlock our future. Trading them all for one of these guys will ultimately set us back. Draft at 5. Keep our picks. Maybe even trade back. There is no "sure thing" in the top 5...

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

You have no idea how many times the situation I have described may or may not have played out. The thing about keeping things private is that they dont leak and you never know.

Eli had to because SD was going to draft him anyway. Had they met and decided a trade was mutually beneficial it wouldnt have been necessary.

FWIW I'm not saying Burrow doesn't want to be a Bengal. I'm saying his lack of public crying doesnt mean that he is okay with it.

You are essentially asking me to prove a negative based on nothing but pure speculation.

I'll stick with my points. I think this is wish fulfillment by people who love Burrow without much bearing in reality. Maybe I am wrong, maybe not.

"texanphinatic wrote:

You are essentially asking me to prove a negative based on nothing but pure speculation.

I'll stick with my points. I think this is wish fulfillment by people who love Burrow without much bearing in reality. Maybe I am wrong, maybe not.

I'm not asking you to prove a negative point, if it came across that way, unintended.

My point was that I cant prove a negative point, but it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

I find it much more beneficial for both sides to keep it under wraps if possible, where the force play happens when the team wants to exert pressure and take you regardless.

I have no idea how he feels about playing there. I'm not him.

Could this be a diversion tactic to make the Skins sweat?

"Vertical Limit wrote:

Burrow to me is a guy who either will become a superstar or will be out of the league in a few short years. I dont think there’s an inbetween for him. His potential is very high, and he’s got the stuff to make him special. But failure to be anything short of great will hit him hard. Same goes for Baker Mayfield if he dont get his **** together. They have strong characters, and if this level doesnt work out for them, they wont have the right attitude to be a backup quarterback.

herbert has all the tools, im not sure if he has that killer inside him but i do know he has all the tools like Tannehill does, to have a long career in the NFL.

Trevor Lawrence next season will be labeled a once in a generation prospect. He’s got the total package and is almost as cant miss as it gets. The fact that he has to play one more season of college football is ridiculous to me, he is man amongst children at this point.

honestly, that’s what I’d prefer. I don’t want a tweaner QB who we’re married to for 4-5 years and we have to build an all world team around just to be able to compete at the highest level.

If it takes one of the picks from Tunsil, Minkah and our #5 to get an elite QB, it’s worth it.

I hate seeing crap like this to be truthful.

If we were trying to actually trade up or had plans to... All this does is drive up the asking price.

"Etrius24 wrote:

I hate seeing crap like this to be truthful.

If we were trying to actually trade up or had plans to... All this does is drive up the asking price.

My fear is the asking price for us will be higher because we have the extra picks. With other teams, they can't ask for something they don't have. Hopefully, Grier won't take the bait.

Other teams have the means to complete a trade.

It might mean a really high pick in next year's draft... But every team has something to trade away. The asking price in my opinion is not lower for other teams because they do not have extra picks in the first round this season.

If the asking price for Burrow was two first round picks... ( For easy math ) Another team could give up a first this year... A first next year... and an additional pick... to make sure their offer is equal to that of the Dolphins offering two first round picks this year.

"Etrius24 wrote:

I hate seeing crap like this to be truthful.

If we were trying to actually trade up or had plans to... All this does is drive up the asking price.

Armando is hardly a dolphins fan. His career basically says so. He’s just a guy that writes for a paper in south florida so him sending out made up information isnt beneath him, especially if he thinks he has the power to hurt the dolphins

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

My fear is the asking price for us will be higher because we have the extra picks. With other teams, they can't ask for something they don't have. Hopefully, Grier won't take the bait.

That's a really great point. No one has the draft capital the 'Phins do, so the asking price for Greir & Company is gonna be higher.

"Etrius24 wrote:

Other teams have the means to complete a trade.

It might mean a really high pick in next year's draft... But every team has something to trade away. The asking price in my opinion is not lower for other teams because they do not have extra picks in the first round this season.

If the asking price for Burrow was two first round picks... ( For easy math ) Another team could give up a first this year... A first next year... and an additional pick... to make sure their offer is equal to that of the Dolphins offering two first round picks this year.

True. Something else, I should have considered is that GM's want to keep a good working relationship with other GMs. There will be discussion, and things are thrown out there, but probably no crazy stuff. They don't want to burn any bridges because you never know when in the future you might need a trading partner. :-)

"The G Man wrote:

That's a really great point. No one has the draft capital the 'Phins do, so the asking price for Greir & Company is gonna be higher.

I know I said that, but I am not sure if I am correct on this or not. You would think that they would ask for all 3 1sts, but that may be insulting to Grier. I don't know how things like this work.

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

I know I said that, but I am not sure if I am correct on this or not. You would think that they would ask for all 3 1sts, but that may be insulting to Grier. I don't know how things like this work.

It's all about supply and demand. It's also about good negotiating skills. From the holder's position you can never go back up (once you set your price), but you can always go down. So, why wouldn't they start out asking for the most they think they can get?

In other words, how bad do you want it?

Nowhere side wants to give a price. The first person to set the price is at the disadvantage, because you might have settled for less than you could usage gotten.