I think the officiating excuse is and always has been extremely, extremely weak where it concerns the Patriots, with the exception of the infamous tuck rule. It's pure confirmation bias. In every game, every team gets away with things that go unflagged. And in most games you're going to see a blown judgment call such as the one that led to the official believing that a Saints offensive lineman jumped before a Patriots player had technically entered the neutral zone. My guess is the ref's eye was drawn to the Patriots blitzer who stopped just shy of the neutral zone, and that took the official's attention away from the defensive lineman who actually did breach the neutral zone...inexcusable, but understandable as a failure of judgment not some stupid conspiracy. But all of this is pure confirmation bias. Sort of like "the refs are always against Miami". It's pure BS. I have zero respect for the argument or its validity. I hear smart people make the argument all the time, and I think a little less of them every time. I almost never say anything because that's just not how I roll, but it's just the god's honest truth.
I`m usually not one to blame the refs on a loss or harp on questionable calls because in the end it gets you no where and it changes nothing. BUT, its blatantly obvious the Patriots have received favorable calls for several years now.
What about the delay of game on the saints that wasn't called and the missed Time out that wasn't noticed that lead to the Brees int. both on the same play.
When I say I don't even respect an argument, I mean I don't even take it seriously. Sort of like the following poll of Louisiana primary voters conducted by Public Policy Polling and released on August 21, 2013: That's what I mean by, I can't even take this seriously. Not that I want to open any political can of worms, I'm open to complete irrationality on either side there it just happened to be the first completely mind blowingly off base and irrational accusation I could think of. If I were to take the accusation seriously that the Patriots have been the beneficiaries of an officiating conspiracy over the years, I might care to point out that over the five full seasons prior to 2013 the Patriots have been penalized more and for more yardage than the Miami Dolphins.
Oh really? So it is normal for a team to go long stretches of a season without a holding penalty like they do on a regular basis? The constant finger on the scale when it comes to that team? Nah..it is real, and it doesn't hold up to video. Here are their penalties this year. See if you can pick up a theme. Then RE-WATCH their games, especially the secondary and Offensive Line. The Confirmation Bias is with the Refs. They are intimidated and allow for the benefit of the doubt. Dolphins enjoyed this "advantage" with Shula in the Competition committee. Here ya go..see if you can pick up a "theme". (Not counting Saints game) Most penalized players, listed by total flags and with total yardage lost: CB Kyle Arrington: two penalties (defensive pass interference, defensive holding), 25 yards OL Logan Mankins: two penalties (two offensive holding), 20 yards OL Dan Connolly: two penalties (two false starts), 10 yards OL Marcus Cannon: two penalties (two false starts), 6 yards CB Aqib Talib: one penalty (defensive pass interference), 38 yards CB Alfonzo Dennard: one penalty (unnecessary roughness), 15 yards LB Dont’a Hightower: one penalty (facemask), 15 yards LB Jerod Mayo: one penalty (unnecessary roughness), 15 yards DL Chandler Jones: two penalties (roughing the passer, neutral zone infraction), 20 yards S Duron Harmon: one penalty (offensive holding–special teams), 10 yards TE Michael Hoomanawanui (false start), 5 yards CB Marquice Cole: one penalty (12 men on the field), 5 yards OL Nate Solder: one penalty (false start), 5 yards WR Julian Edelman: one penalty (illegal shift), 5 yards QB Tom Brady: one penalty (delay of game), 5 yards Team: one penalty (illegal shift), 5 yards S Kanorris Davis: one penalty (illegal formation), 5 yards Most penalized by position Cornerback: 83 yards Offensive line: 41 yards Defensive line: 20 yards Linebacker: 30 yards Safety: 15 yards Tight end: 5 yards Team: 5 yards Wide receiver: 5 yards Quarterback: 5 yards Most frequently called penalties False start: Six Offensive holding: Three Unnecessary roughness: Two Defensive pass interference: Two Illegal shift: Two Roughing the passer: One Neutral zone infraction: One Twelve men on the field: One Illegal formation: One Facemask: One Defensive holding: One Delay of game: One
I'm glad fmr CFLer Garret McIntyre is showing up for the Jest As for the patsies getting calls, ***** please, anyone with 2 eyes can see it. Cam Wake can get tackled by Vollmer and it is as if it never happened
It is not a conspiracy. it is just the way it is. Kinda like how KG can set so many illegal screens and never get called...Jordan traveling...Dwyane Wade's spin move that is a travel...Lebron's crab dribble...New England's penchant for defensive and offensive holding.
What exactly do you believe this proves other than the ability to break patternless, contextless details down and post them on a message board?
If it's not a conspiracy, then there's no explanation for your accusation, in addition to your lack of evidence. And your constant comparisons to basketball are in my opinion misguided. That's comparing apples to pigeons.
it proves that they have a pretty clean sheet of consequential penalties as compared to other teams. Abnormally so. I find it funny that you think Referees are unbiased emotionless robots.
It's not a conspiracy when you give somebody the benefit of the doubt. Unless you think that Deion Sanders and Nolan Carroll are officiated exactly the same. and Basketball is a game played by Humans..Officiated by Humans...For this discussion it is exactly the same thing.
I find it funny that you think Referees have any more reason to be biased toward the New England Patriots than they do the Tennessee Titans. What exactly defines a "consequential" penalty and can you prove in any way, shape or form that the New England Patriots have had so few of them called on them over the years as to be proof of conspiracy?
Well you could have fooled me. What does that particular political nonsense have to do with the debate on hand? If you didnt agree with my comment you really didnt have to bring that type of reference to prove your point on things you dont take seriously. Also, I`ve watched my share of Patriots games in the past with my brother,(a die hard pats fan), and several others who have said numerous times during a game "wow, we really lucked out there" on debatable calls in the Pats favor. And when I said the Pats get favorable calls I meant actual calls that could be game changers, I wasnt referring to the amount of calls they get just that they seem to get a critical call in their favor at critical moments. This isnt really a topic worth arguing about, I`m just stating what I`ve seen in the past.
Didn't realize Deion Sanders played for the New England Patriots. I thought it was Aqib Talib, Devin McCourty and Kyle Arrington, none of which could be even remotely compared to Deion Sanders as far as any kind of "benefit of the doubt" that their reputation alone would earn from officials. You're comparing the officiating of a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME to the officiating of football. That's borderline laughable. It's a completely different game with completely different rules, completely different objectives, completely different movements, completely different fields of play, completely different methods of breaking the rules, completely different pacing and completely different officiating structure.
Exactly. And it seems there are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT set of rules for Belicheck and the Patriots then there are for other teams. Mind boggling you never noticed it.
Forgive me for disregarding fanboy-ish accusations of officiating conspiracies in favor of a hated rival in the absence of evidence, any convincing evidence whatsoever, that this is actually happening. There are 8 teams that have been flagged for less penalty yardage than the Patriots from 2008 to 2012. One of them is the Dolphins. Yet most of the same people who accuse the refs of blatantly favoring the Patriots also accuse them of blatantly being biased against the Dolphins. I'm going to say...not a coincidence.
As an aside, the Miami Dolphins are the second least penalized team in the NFL behind the Colts so far this year, not the Patriots. We've played one less game, sure, but even when you extrapolate it, we have less penalties than the Patriots do.
I don't know how you can. It is the fruit of having a winning team. You win long enough you get officiated a bit differently. It is why Don Shula's teams can go a decade being the least penalized team in the League. it happens in every sport, and Refs are Human. You score games for efficiency, much like you count cards in blackjack. It is +1 and -1 for each "negative" play. Consequential penalties are holding penalties on offense that force 1st and 20 or 2nd and 20. if they wipe out a first down on 3rd down, and you then do not convert, the "dead" possession becomes a -1 in the total "score" for the game. Offensive Pass Interference when it wipes out a completion qualifies as well. On Defense, Pass Interference beyond 15 yards and Defensive Holding that results in a first down on any down past 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and 7 yards. All Personal Foul penalties are consequential. it has been my experience over the years that the New England Patriots and the Pittsburgh Steelers benefit the most. The Dallas Cowboys, and New York Jets get hurt the most based on this scoring system. it is not a matter of opinion. it is science.
Thank you, I was just going to bring that up. As a Dolphins fan I KNOW that Shula got favorable calls because of intimidation of the refs. I have no problem admitting that at all because its true. Did I mind at the time? Of course not it helped my team win which is all I cared about . Much like the Pats fans of today. It is what it is.
and yes...for this discussion Basketball and Football are exactly the same. Professional Leagues with Professional Human Officials, played by professional Human Players. There are judgement calls. Same ****, different laxative.
That's an insult to science. You've presented NO evidence of this. Whatsoever. I'm not a PhD in science. I leave that honor to my wife. I certainly haven't heard her make scientific claims that have no evidence. As for your THEORY that the least penalized teams are the teams that win more, let me help you out with the whole EVIDENCE part. Here are the five least penalized teams over the five years from 2008 to 2012, by penalty yardage, along with their regular season records over that time: 1. Atlanta Falcons: 56-24 2. Buffalo Bills: 29-51 3. Jacksonville Jaguars: 27-53 4. Miami Dolphins: 38-42 5. San Diego Chargers: 45-35 Total Record: 195-205 (.488)
I agree with your metaphor of sh-t, as far as the comparison of football and basketball officiating goes.
Serious question CK, you honestly dont believe the Pats get calls in their favor simply because they are the NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS COACHED BY BILL BELICHICK ? You dont believe this ever happened?
According to CK, Referees are possibly the greatest human beings on earth with no biases, or prejudices whatsoever. Just mere judges and arbiters of our most incorruptible and integrity filled sport.
Not in any material way, no. Honest answer. And by material I mean, for sure there could have been an official here or there that made a bad call that had more to do with the team or the player than it did what happened on the field. But no more likely than the same ending up happening to the Kansas City Chiefs, Jacksonville Jaguars, Tennesee Titans or Green Bay Packers, for example. Every now and then you're going to get an official that maybe calls a roughing the quarterback penalty on opponent who roughed up Peyton Manning and maybe they wouldn't have made that call if the quarterback was Cam Newton or Michael Vick, guys who have a reputation for being able to handle the rush a little better. That could happen. But not to any material degree as to warrant the accusation of a systematic advantage. Nor is there evidence for one.
Oh..and you guys knew that Don Shula had some super powers akin to mind control that he used for his teams that would prevent them from committing penalties. It was brilliant. Part of Shula's genius.
You've fundamentally misunderstood the argument. I have never argued that officials are incapable of bias. I've only argued that your theory as to why they should be biased is complete bull sh-t. The Patriots haven't won a Super Bowl in a damn decade. There are plenty of other good teams out there. There are plenty of other good players out there. You've not demonstrated to even the SLIGHTEST degree that there should be any systematic favoritism toward the Patriots other than keeping on saying "because, ya know, they're the PATRIOTS...of course it's true".
Switching the acceptable evidence to something completely immeasurable and prone to convenient interpretation. Reason #347 why I not only disagree with this line of argument, I don't even respect it. Which is saying a lot because I respect all kinds of lines of argument that I disagree with.
Most people actually consider that being a well coached team. You know, actually drilling them on fundamentals.
