Are the Dolphins a Playoff Team?

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

Not at all. That's really the exact opposite of what I'm saying.

My desire is to see the team do the basics well first. What should be the simple things.

- Run the ball, with the running backs, at a near-average level.
- Run basic passing plays that pick up moderate yardage (not focused on YAC) at an average level.
- Defend the opposing run game at an average level.

Then, once you can walk, you can then try and run, and do things like try and also create big plays on offense, run trick plays that involve WRs running the ball on occasion, blitz regularly, and try and create turnovers. And ultimately, once they get to that point, worry about things like the two minute offense and big comebacks, ect.

I need to see them do the 101 level things before I'm going to be too concerned with the more advanced stuff.

That's all very "1995." Running the ball and defending the run are nowhere near as important as passing the ball and defending the pass. This team has gotten better so fast because it's done both of those things fairly well this year. Passing the ball and defending the pass are in fact foundational in today's game. Running the ball and defending the run are no more than ancillary tasks.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

Not at all. That's really the exact opposite of what I'm saying.

My desire is to see the team do the basics well first. What should be the simple things.

- Run the ball, with the running backs, at a near-average level.
- Run basic passing plays that pick up moderate yardage (not focused on YAC) at an average level.
- Defend the opposing run game at an average level.

Then, once you can walk, you can then try and run, and do things like try and also create big plays on offense, run trick plays that involve WRs running the ball on occasion, blitz regularly, and try and create turnovers. And ultimately, once they get to that point, worry about things like the two minute offense and big comebacks, ect.

I need to see them do the 101 level things before I'm going to be too concerned with the more advanced stuff.

You lack perspective imo.

Youngest team in football.

Rookie qb

20 games in to a complete. rebuild.

Give them a freakin chance to become something, to find their identity, to find the right players they want, it can’t be done this fast, but guess what, they are ahead of schedule, be grateful you gotta young head coach that stands for something, a rookie qb who has great character and a great skillset..be grateful we have a team to root for.

"djphinfan wrote:

You lack perspective imo.

Youngest team in football.

Rookie qb

20 games in to a complete. rebuild.

Give them a freakin chance to become something, to find their identity, to find the right players they want, it can’t be done this fast, but guess what, they are ahead of schedule, be grateful you gotta young head coach that stands for something, a rookie qb who has great character and a great skillset..be grateful we have a team to root for.

I'm giving them time. I'm not calling for anyone to be fired or benched or cut. I'm just not ready to be excited about what I'm seeing so far. That's all. They need to grow, and get better, and then hopefully we'll see them be able to execute the basics. I'm just saying that we seem to be a long way from that point, still.

"The Guy wrote:

That's all very "1995." Running the ball and defending the run are nowhere near as important as passing the ball and defending the pass. This team has gotten better so fast because it's done both of those things fairly well this year. Passing the ball and defending the pass are in fact foundational in today's game. Running the ball and defending the run are no more than ancillary tasks.

Look no further than the Titans the other night. Henry had a ton of yards, but the passing game wasn't too high powered, and they lost.

Playoff team? Depends. I think we can make the playoffs but looking at this team right now it’s not built to go anywhere or far. We have talent but it’s a paper thin roster as far as depth. The NFL is hard to cross the finish line and a lot of the success relies on good health, not in every case but most cases.
With that said, this is the NFL and it’s slogan any given Sunday could always come into play but I’m not overly confident we could go places this year. But I love our direction right now

"resnor wrote:

Look no further than the Titans the other night. Henry had a ton of yards, but the passing game wasn't too high powered, and they lost.

Just look at the average EPA per run play versus the average EPA per passing play, league-wide, and then consider that on average, teams pass the ball a good bit more than they run it. There are a whole lot of points being generated by the passing game in the NFL.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

I'm giving them time. I'm not calling for anyone to be fired or benched or cut. I'm just not ready to be excited about what I'm seeing so far. That's all. They need to grow, and get better, and then hopefully we'll see them be able to execute the basics. I'm just saying that we seem to be a long way from that point, still.

execute the basics??

Ok man, forget it

"djphinfan wrote:

execute the basics??

Ok man, forget it

Yeah, I don't think that you and I are really capable of understanding one another. Its been a problem for a long time. *shrug* I think I'm being as clear as I can. Does anyone else understand the point that I'm trying to make here?

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

Yeah, I don't think that you and I are really capable of understanding one another. Its been a problem for a long time. *shrug* I think I'm being as clear as I can. Does anyone else understand the point that I'm trying to make here?

You're easy to understand once one realizes your priority is NOT winning. Instead you just want the football team to play a certain way because it makes you feel more comfortable.

Maybe in your mind that "style" of play is associated with eventually increasing win%, but when put to the test it's clear that even IF evidence shows your style is not well suited for the current era and it might actually hurt win% you're still more interested in playing a certain way than winning.

Once that's understood it's easy to understand your point of view. I've just never met an NFL fan with a similar mindset. Only thing I would suggest is that you explicitly add that disclaimer when saying the Dolphins should do X, Y or Z because otherwise people are going to assume you're suggesting the best way to increase win%, fostering this misunderstanding.

"cbrad wrote:

You're easy to understand once one realizes your priority is NOT winning. Instead you just want the football team to play a certain way because it makes you feel more comfortable.

Maybe in your mind that "style" of play is associated with eventually increasing win%, but when put to the test it's clear that even IF evidence shows your style is not well suited for the current era and it might actually hurt win% you're still more interested in playing a certain way than winning.

Once that's understood it's easy to understand your point of view. I've just never met an NFL fan with a similar mindset. Only thing I would suggest is that you explicitly add that disclaimer when saying the Dolphins should do X, Y or Z because otherwise people are going to assume you're suggesting the best way to increase win%, fostering this misunderstanding.

I believe that there are many, many ways to win in football, and my preference is one if them.

Its difficult for me to grasp that so many others so strongly disagree.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

Yeah, I don't think that you and I are really capable of understanding one another. Its been a problem for a long time. *shrug* I think I'm being as clear as I can. Does anyone else understand the point that I'm trying to make here?

m

This team is executing the basics.. their fundamentals are good..

Maybe use different terms to express how you feel..

Saying you need the youngest team in football who’s 5-3 on a four game winning streak to grow and get better before you get excited lacks many many thing besides perspective.

I know you we weren’t a Tua fan, I don’t think you were a Flores Fan either, correct me if I’m wrong, if you weren’t then I understand where your coming from..

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

I believe that there are many, many ways to win in football, and my preference is one if them.

Its difficult for me to grasp that so many others so strongly disagree.

I guess if you were a Ravens fan you would of quit the team after they drafted Lamar Jackson.

Pat Mahomes And the chiefs offense hell know, he’s too flashy.

I know Russ Wilson runs to much for your Liking..So you couldn’t be a seahawk fan.

I pride myself on understanding different opinions as long as they have perspective but if you didn’t like the Qb nor the coach then it makes sense

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

I believe that there are many, many ways to win in football, and my preference is one if them.

Its difficult for me to grasp that so many others so strongly disagree.

I think I understand what you're saying, but the point is that the philosophy you're espousing is actually not a way of winning in the present-day NFL. If the Dolphins were to strive toward that philosophy, they would be less likely to win.

Consider just very basic information on that front: the correlation between points scored and EPA per rush, team-by-team, in the NFL in 2020 is 0.31. On the other hand, the correlation between points scored and EPA per pass dropback in 2020 is a whopping 0.86.

A mere 9.6% of the variance in points scored is associated with teams' rushing efficiency, whereas that figure vaults to 74% for passing efficiency.

So the style of football you're wanting is simply not associated with winning in today's game.

On another note, where in WV did you grow up? I used to live there as well.

"The Guy wrote:

On another note, where in WV did you grow up? I used to live there as well.

I grew up in Wheeling, which is about 45 miles South of Pittsburgh. And then I lived in and around Morgantown for seven years before moving to Virginia.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

I grew up in Wheeling, which is about 45 miles South of Pittsburgh. And then I lived in and around Morgantown for seven years before moving to Virginia.

I lived in Sissonville, a suburb of Charleston, for about five years in the 1980s. Pocatalico if you want to get real specific. ;)

"The Guy wrote:

I lived in Sissonville, a suburb of Charleston, for about five years in the 1980s. Pocatalico if you want to get real specific. ;)

Even though I spent 24 of my first 26 years in WV, I've only been to the Southern parts a handful of times, and most of that was driving though on the interstate. I'm pretty sure that the last time I was actually in Charleston was my freshman year of high school in 1991 for the state championship football game. My school got jobbed by the officials and they have the title to Capitol.

Stripping it all down and giving this coach a chance in his 2nd year, if you aren’t happy with the progress of this football team then you ain’t happy.

Regarding playoff scenarios, check out how similar in difficulty the remaining opponents are for Miami vs. Buffalo:

One really strong team (KC vs. Pitt), one WC contender (Raiders vs. Cards) and the rest relatively weak teams. Buffalo has a bye while we don't, but we play the Jets so that's like a wash lol. If Buffalo loses to the Cards today (Vegas favors the Cards with a -2.5 spread) there's a decent chance the division winner will be crowned in our last game against Buffalo.

The other game to watch today is Eagles (3-4-1) vs. Giants (2-7). If the Giants win, there's a really good chance the winner of the NFC East this year will have only 6 wins, which would be a first in NFL history (for 16 game seasons).

EDIT: Actually, tiebreakers make this complicated. After head-to-head it's division games won, and Buffalo is 4-0 there right now while we're 1-2 so to win the division the Dolphins will likely need an outright better record than Buffalo. So it's a bit more difficult but doable!

What a throw and catch. OMG. Bills were stunned. I don’t know if I was happier for the Fins win or the Bills loss almost at the same moment.

it’s great to be relevant again.

"Finatik wrote:

What a throw and catch. OMG. Bills were stunned. I don’t know if I was happier for the Fins win or the Bills loss almost at the same moment.

it’s great to be relevant again.

I don't like that this instantly got bumped into another thread because it's HIGHLY RELEVANT for Dolphins news- it's one of the biggest developments this weekend since we're legit in a battle for the division. That was an incredible, Herculean win by Arizona at the last second!

"Finatik wrote:

What a throw and catch. OMG. Bills were stunned. I don’t know if I was happier for the Fins win or the Bills loss almost at the same moment.

it’s great to be relevant again.

I've just seen it! !!!!!!!!!!

Stunner!!!!!!

"KeyFin wrote:

I don't like that this instantly got bumped into another thread because it's HIGHLY RELEVANT for Dolphins news- it's one of the biggest developments this weekend since we're legit in a battle for the division. That was an incredible, Herculean win by Arizona at the last second!

Understood. But rather than set a precedent for posting game threads for any non-Phins games that might have relevance, and to avoid diverting a long-standing conversation from one thread to another, I thought it was better to merge.

The thread-owner can update the title of the thread if they want to, to include the headline.

"cbrad wrote:

Regarding playoff scenarios, check out how similar in difficulty the remaining opponents are for Miami vs. Buffalo:

One really strong team (KC vs. Pitt), one WC contender (Raiders vs. Cards) and the rest relatively weak teams. Buffalo has a bye while we don't, but we play the Jets so that's like a wash lol. If Buffalo loses to the Cards today (Vegas favors the Cards with a -2.5 spread) there's a decent chance the division winner will be crowned in our last game against Buffalo.

The other game to watch today is Eagles (3-4-1) vs. Giants (2-7). If the Giants win, there's a really good chance the winner of the NFC East this year will have only 6 wins, which would be a first in NFL history (for 16 game seasons).

EDIT: Actually, tiebreakers make this complicated. After head-to-head it's division games won, and Buffalo is 4-0 there right now while we're 1-2 so to win the division the Dolphins will likely need an outright better record than Buffalo. So it's a bit more difficult but doable!

I still think Buffalo will lose to the Steelers and us- making them 11-5. For us to flat-out have the better record, that means we have to beat everyone but the Chiefs. Either that or the Bills have to drop a few games they'll be favored in.

With Buffalo beating Seattle last week, I don't love our chances of taking the division anymore (LOL, I told you I'd need a few weeks to be interested in your WildCard scenarios!). We are a serous contender this year, but it seems unfathomable that we'll win 12 of 13 to close out the season. It seems like the better I think this team is, the more I get nervous about them living up to their potential.

In any case though, I'm still not thinking about WildCard because I think we'll have that locked up with 10 or 11 wins....maybe as high as the #4 seed. But if Buffalo has a bad week, I still think we're taking the darn division!

Kyler Murray be like...

"Galant wrote:

Understood. But rather than set a precedent for posting game threads for any non-Phins games that might have relevance, and to avoid diverting a long-standing conversation from one thread to another, I thought it was better to merge.

The thread-owner can update the title of the thread if they want to, to include the headline.

If you would have watched it live like the rest of us did, I have a feeling that you'd have a different opinion, LOL. Arizona completely had the wind knocked out of them in the last minute and Dolphins fans everywhere were cussing at their televisions...and then everything changed in an instant!

That may have been the play of the year in the NFL- just incredible!