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AFCE Champions, one and done?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Big E, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    Maybe not, but there's a hell of alot more evidence out there to suggest he'll be his normal self in 2009. Your thought process is grounded entirely in your own speculation.

    Also, let me get this straight, throughout the progression of this thread you've gone from "the Dolphins are more stable at the QB position" to "the ACL is a serious injury"?

    And there you go comparing Tom Brady to Daunte Culpepper again... wow.
     
  2. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    When you consider the fact that they won 11 games with guys like Jabar Gaffney (who by the way, if he makes a catch that hit him directly in the hands in Indianapolis, they win the division) and Deltha O'Neal playing in spots that will now be manned by Galloway and Bodden, it's a definite upgrade.
     
  3. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Only time will tell for sure. FA seems to never work for any team like it does with NE.
     
  4. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    Deltha O'Neal was so bad for them last year that, at the very least, it was addition by subtraction.
     
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  5. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    Over Yonder
    If you seriously believe that the Pats will lose 6 games, then you are delusional. They only lost 5 with Cassel. After their draft, they are going to be mother effing loaded. This division is going to be a dogfight. That is, if New England hasn't locked it up by week 12.
     
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  6. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    The Pats look great on paper. We know that always works out. Not that Brady was a huge scrambler before but he will now probably be Drew Bledsoe like when moving in the pocket. I'm not ready to proclaim them back to 2007 form just yet.
     
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  7. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    HMMMMMMM, seems everyone has come around to my way of thinking. I remember starting a thread in which I got KILLED because I dared to suggest it may take 3 or 4 drafts to finally get this team ready for a SB push. HugoGuzman especially ripped me, and many fell right in line with him, some even calling me a Miami hater.

    Interesting how the tide turns :pity:
     
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  8. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    He may very well be the old Tom Brady, however, the history of QBs with his injury dictate some reserve. In recent memory the only one to come back with a vengeance from a torn ACL was Palmer and even he said he was not 100% until mid-way thru the season...while all the reports are that he'll be back to 100%, it's unrealistic to think that will occur until after the first few games. He still has to build up that confidence that an ACL injury seems to tear down from most who get the injury...

    That said, there has been no contrary info about his recovery except that he won't take a hit until sometime in Sept....then we'll all know...
     
  9. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    i remember that thread...can't seem to find it right now, but you're right...the rich keep getting richer I think was the general theme...
     
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  10. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think htey have improved over the 11-5 team they were last year. Shawn Springs is old, but he had a nice year last year. Leigh Bodden and Shawn Springs are upgrades and with the type of aggressive zone coverages NE runs, I think they'll be able to be playmakers.

    Mike Vrabel wasn't their best pass rusher, nor has he been other than 2007 when he had a spike of 12.5 sacks from the usual 4.5. That title belongs to Richard Seymour, maybe Adalius Thomas.

    Believe it or not, they aren't that much "longer in the tooth" than we are at the Front 7. Vince Wilfork 27, Richard Seymour 29, Ty Warren 28, Jarvis Green 30, Jerod Mayo 23, Tedy Bruschi 35, Adalius Thomas 31, and they'll probably get a young OLB to fill in for Vrabel. Other than Bruschi there isn't much there to make me believe that age will have a factor in poor play--those guys are in their prime.

    Unstable right side of the line?? Uh, the same two starters from the past 3 years will be there again--Stephen Neal and Nick Kaczur.

    I think their running game is good, they just don't use it enough and that's the way they run their offense. With Fred Taylor there, I believe it improves it.

    Then you bring Tom Brady back. I mean, we have to the play the games, but to say the NE Patriots are not an improved team as they head into the draft is just denying yourself from the actuality of it.

    I trust in our personnel department also that we've improved or managed to keep pace.
     
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  11. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    not everyone sees us as superbowl champs buddy......we arent as good as you homers think.

    no one is glorifying the pats signings....it gets them better....thats no doubt....and they won 11 games with cassell as quarterback and without maroney most the season.....take off your aqua glasses.....adding galloway to moss and welker with brady throwing is a positive addition. add springs and bodden to a depleted and glarring weakness of a secondary.....and thats a positive, it doesnt make them worse....thats for sure. (not to mention they have 37 picks in the first 3 rounds) :lol:

    talk about glorifying......you make it seem like we had some great free agency because we signed a safety with 1 career pick, a below average inside linebacker, a decent right tackle, and oft-injured center, and a safety who was not good enough to be on the raiders roster.....

    yea id say as of now we are representing the afc in miami in february :rolleyes:
     
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  12. PENNSYLVANIADOLPHAN

    PENNSYLVANIADOLPHAN Well-Known Member

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    Wow, way to show the Miami spirit guys. IDC if NE signed all those old *** FAs and If Tom brady comes back. He still has to trust his knee when playing, and we won't know If he will till the season starts.

    And sure, the Pats look great on paper, but so did the cowboys. Where the hell did they go? NO where! Look at the Giants, no name players, and they still get it done. That's us right there. A no name team that just gets it done.

    GO MIAMI!!!
     
  13. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    we are not a no name team anymore......you win 11 games....you will be circled on the schedule
     
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  14. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    Exactly, we have a target on our backs for sure. I guarantee that Bellicheat will have his boys on fire when we play them.....he still isn't over us beating him like a dead fish in front of his home crowd last year.
     
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  15. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Jets defense will worry me a little. Rex Ryan is building the same defense he did with the Ravens and he knows how to beat us. Their offense will be a major work in progress but i'm cautious of their defense right now until we play them. We'll see what they'll do at QB this offseason though.
     
  16. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    Its a lot harder to do it the way we are doing it, but it also will make a much better foundation and the quick fix can only be used sparingly and with extreme caution. It was the mantra of Wannstache, The Great Satan and Cam-moron. I still stand by my premise in that thread, that it will take longer than many here on this board will want to believe to become the strong every year Super Bowl contender.
     
  17. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει


    How anyone can predict a record at this point is beyond me. But if you are taking into account the current rosters with the additional free agent pickups and then factor in the first place schedule that Miami is facing next year, I would tend to think that 11-5 is quite a high estimation. I wouldn't be surprised is Miami fell all the way to the ranks of the sub-.500 club, myself.
     
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  18. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    I would like to point out that we had the same record as the Patriots and the only reason we won the division because we beat the Chargers and lost to the Cardinals while the Patriots lost to the Chargers and beat the Cardinals.

    The Patriots outscored their opponents by 101 points and we outscored ours by 28 points. The Patriots did all of that with their backup quarterback.

    I hate the Patriots as much as the next guy but the Patriots were a better team than us last year and they should be the favorites this year.
     
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  19. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    That first sentence is not objective. You focus on how we have a TON of young talent and then insult the Patriots young talent even though they did have the Rookie of the Year last year. That isn't being objective. All you're doing is focusing on the Dolphins' positives and the Patriots' negatives.
     
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  20. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I agree with this guy. The one they call, "Rhody."
     
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  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    IMO, I honestly have no idea how to assess how we will do next year.
    Half our season was against teams in the bottom 3rd against the run.
    Half our season was against lackluster offenses.
    We beat NE b/c they didnt have Brady and the wildcat caught them off guard.
    We beat SD b/c they were severely riddled with injuries.
    We were overmatched in key losses to the only quality teams we really faced: Zona, Balt, and NE with Cassell settled in.
    We had wins against 5 of the worst 10 teams (3 of worst 4) by a total of 20 points. A true 11-5 team should have beaten one of them by 20.
    We could have very easily gone 7-9.
    But we also had a young, unhealthy OLine.
    Factor in that next year our schedule is the complete opposite, I'm stumped on truly assessing us. Realistically, not pessimistically. LOL.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  22. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    With the depth/quality of talent in the 2nd round, NE is only going to be restocking. Ugggg. Their possibilities with 4 picks on day one are endless. Uggg again. This could be a long memorable chess game between us and the Pats for the next 10 years. LOL
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  23. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know precisely what you are saying but exactly one year ago I stated that we would go 5-11 for the 2008 season and laughed at those who said that we would go 11-5 and make the playoffs... :confused2:
     
  24. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    I hear ya, and its the reason I was skeptical that we would be ready for 3 more seasons. I got killed in that thread. Hopefully people are more rational now, and won't villify you as they did me a couple of months ago. :up:
     
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  25. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Our schedule is going to be brutal. And with all the additions on the AFCE rivals, it could be a long year.
     
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  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    <<<<<<<Still a Phins fan, so hopefully I don't get vilified from my own kind just for stating a few facts. LOL. You can still be a realist and an optimist simultaneously, right? :D
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
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  27. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    Over Yonder
    Comparing us to the Giants is an unfair comparison. They are a fully built team full of monsters.

    Nobody is saying the Pats will be unstoppable just because they signed Fred Taylor, Joey Galloway, Shawn Springs, and Leigh Bodden. But seeing as they were unstoppable without those players before Brady got hurt. And they were nearly unstoppable without those players while Brady was hurt. Why is it such a ridiculous idea that the Pats will walk away with the division now that Brady is back, they added all those vets, and they have an insane set of draft picks.

    Pretending the Pats aren't a Super Bowl contender is denial. Pretending they aren't heavy favorites to win the division is CRAZY.

    a ton of young talent ready to explode? are you serious? where? how many players on our roster do think are going to have breakout all pro season this year? Donald Thomas? Merling, Langford? Thats 3 guys. Any team in the NFL can make that claim about their young draft picks.

    The fact of the matter is, the Pats beat us with Cassel. We couldnt stop them. That was with an offense that didnt have Tom Brady, Lawrence Maroney, Fred Taylor, or Joey Galloway. Im sure the Pats will draft at least one offensive starter too. Anyone with eyes can see that its pure homerism to say that the Pats aren't going to be insanely difficult to beat. But you call it being objective? Where is the objectivity? Its all opinion. And IMO, your opinion is skewed against the Pats.

    Im not saying the division is lost or anything like that. But in order to win our division, we're probably talking about winning the Super Bowl in the same sentence. What are the odds of that? We just aren't at that level yet.
     
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  28. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Nice how the weak schedule is the reason Miami won 11 games but the Pats get a free pass with it. I guess they would have won 11 games no matter who they played. Because they are the mighty Patriots. Screw that. They're not wrapping up anything by week 12, Brady or no Brady. If you want to have ESPN syndrome and stand in awe of the Pats because they picked up a few over the hill vets be my guest. I don't buy it.
     
  29. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    thats not what im saying. I'm saying that they were probably already the best team in the division before they added those players. live in denial all your want. The Pats won 11 games with Matt Cassel. Weak schedule or not, that is amazing. If they had Tom Brady last year, they probably go 16-0 again.

    all of the homers in the room need to take a reality check. Our team is not elite by any means. The Patriots are, and have been for 10 years. Its not ESPN syndrome, its reality.

    Let me ask you this. If we didnt hang on and beat the Seahawks and Raiders at the very last moment, would this even be a discussion? the Pats would have won the division, and likely made a serious dent in the playoffs. The Dolphins played the clostest thing there is to mistake free football, and used every misdirection play they could get their hands on to win the division. We earned it fair and square. But lets get real, it's not like we beat anyone good in the process. We only beat one team that made the playoffs, and got crushed by the #6 seed at home. We have a long way to go. The Pats were 11-5 in an off year, we were 11-5 at our best. Anyone who can't distinguish between the two needs to consider entering rehab. (Only jokes, but the point remains.)
     
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  30. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Probably the best team? Probably not. If they were the best team in the division they would have won it. You have to beat the right teams sometimes. A win over San Diego is much more impressive than beating the Cardinals who had clinched their division three or four weeks ago and had nothing to play for. They had a fair shot to win and they didn't. So no, they were not the best team in the division.

    All your arguments are based on your perception that the Pats are still the 07 team that nearly achieved perfection and that the Dolphins are scrubs who got lucky. The Dolphins were a batted down pass or QB draw away from winning 12 games. How convenient not to look at it that way. They were a batted down pass and a Ginn TD reception away from 13 wins. See where I'm going here, I can do this all day long. I have no use for could have, would have, and should haves. The bottom line is that Miami won the East and THEY DESERVED TO WIN THE EAST. They destroyed the Pats once along the way too. We've seen that good teams could stop the Wildcat. So why couldn't the mighty Patriots? They were dumbfounded. But they weren't only outsmarted, they were also outplayed. In the second game we basically continued to score on the mighty Pats at will and were only undone by a poor pass rush and late game loss of focus. And the Patsies did their best to make it look as lopsided as their loss was but in reality we all know it wasn't.

    Until I see a little y next to the standings besides a different team, the East belongs to Miami. End of story. They absolutely can repeat. Unbelievable the pessimism after seeing what was already achieved in just one season. I bet you would have recommended rehab if you heard 11-5 and AFC East champs this time last year. But now suddenly the mention of repeating is homerism? OK.
     
  31. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    No offense.... but what about Long, Carpenter, and Bess? Add 3 more starters in Thomas, Merling, and Langford...with Dotson in rotation. Sorry, but there isn't a team in the NFL even close to getting that much from last year's draft picks. Teams are lucky to get 3 contributors from the draft. 4 is good. 5 is amazing. But we're at 6-7. :wink2: No one can match that. Period.

    I completely agree with your other premise, but this one is a little far fetched. LOL
     
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  32. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Nice arguments on both accounts.

    I agree with both of you. It's our division to lose (damn that's as awesome to type as it is to say) but we had to earn it with a circus offense. Then again, doesn't spreading it out of the shotgun even on 1st downs and putting it up about 50 freagin times a game(Belichick) seem like circus ball as well?

    I'm an I formation, up the gut, smash ball type myself (only friend considered boring when it comes to a Madden tourney) but I don't care how we win football games or which teams we beat. If we got the job done, what else matters?

    And since when do the Patsies ever scare us? We're use to this. We haven't gone anywhere. We've been in then same division through their entire reign and if memory serves we have spanked them on more than a few occasions when we had no business doing so.

    We have something special in Miami. The coaches are brilliant and the players are responding. Even that Baltimore game where we were just gawd awful, we began to score at will and were right back in it until Ginn fumbled a reverse (which btw was WIIIIIIDE open with nothing but space and opportunity) for about 80 something yards.

    Teams have to come see us now. We are no longer an after thought. We are a frightening football team. We will dink and dunk you until your soggy. We will confuse you until Ronnie Brown is 12 yards behind your defense on ever other play. And hopefully after this offseason, we will blitz you until your defensive coordinator bleeds.

    We aren't the Pats just yet but I don't want to be. The Pats aren't the AFC East champs.
     
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  33. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    Of course we deserved to win the East. We played nearly perfect football for an entire season. You seem hell bent on defending that fact, but I couldnt agree more with it. The point we disagree on is how good the Pats really are. We overachieved, and you know it. No one in the world thought our team was capable of winning 11 games. Everyone thought the same thing about the Pats after Brady got hurt. Right? Over the course of the season Miami and New England proved to be identical in term of how good they were. Miami only edged them out with a conference record tie breaker. Now, seeing as the Pats we just as good as we were without Tom Brady; how can you not see that they are a clear favorite when Brady returns? They just upgraded from a HS quarterback to a Hall of Fame quarterback. How many hall of famers did Miami add this year? Oh, and they picked up a high 2nd as compensation for having to be without Brady for a year.


    Long, Carpenter, and Bess have already made names for themselves in the NFL. Merl and Langford are respected, but still have another tier of talent they can reach. Same with Donald Thomas, but with a larger hill to climb. Aqua said we have tons of young talent waiting to explode. IMO, that excludes Long, Bess, and Carptenter because they are already dominating at their positions. You can't really have a breakout season 2 years in a row. We could add Ginn to the argument, and dersevingly so too. So it's Thomas, Merling, Langford, Ginn, and...? Please don't say Beck or Henne. Neither is projected to have any impact on the coming season. Maybe Jason Allen. Maybe Brandon London. Maybe Paul Solia. But I think its beyond realistic to think that any of them could be all pros this year. My list stands at 4 players.
     
  34. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    I'm sorry, you just completely lost me right there. We scored 9 points!
     
  35. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    agreed. nice take on things. i'm also hoping for an improved aggressive defense.
     
  36. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    maybe, move the ball at will would have been a better choice of words. but we did have a lot of success in the 4th quarter. if ginn gets that ball in his hands, its a one score game, and our defense would get a chance to get us the ball back to win the game. Our defense was keeping them in check, and i believe we would have stopped them. but ginn didnt get the ball, and my dreams were smashed into little pieces. :sad:

    i hope our running game improves enough this year to allow Pennington to cruise into an MVP award.
     
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  37. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Sure you can.... depending on how you define "break out". IMO "break out" isn't just going from "nothing to decent or good".... It's also going from "good to great".... or "great" to "dominant". You can have multiple break outs if there is a big enough improvement between each one, or when a player takes his game to another level ;)

    By your standards, then yes- other teams will have as many young draft guys impact next year b/c most other teams didn't have their rookies impact last year like we did. LOL.

    As far as young talent, I only count last year's guys, because we've only drafted one year of guys under BP and Co. So out of those guys, whether they broke out last year or not, they are they most impacting group out of all 32 teams. Success is success no matter how you slice it. If we keep drafting young talent that is better than the rest of the league, we will be better than the rest of the league. As other rookies from other teams have their break out years, our young guys will continue to get even better as well.

    Arguably, Long is still learning and I hope last year wasn't the best we'll see from him, so he could still truly have a break out year.... by break out I mean unanimous All Pro. We'll get a full year from Bess. Camarillo can still have his true "full" break out year. Cassell had a break out year b/c Brady went down. If anything happens to Penny, it's only fair to say the same can happen to Henne. London is very primed to have a break out year....considering he's our only real tall/redzone threat. LOL.
     
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  38. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    This is a great thread...:wink2:
     
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  39. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Just to kind of touch on the draft arguement. Last yrs draft was by far one of the most successful draft classes we have had in years. But it didnt hurt that our first four picks were in the top 100. This yrs draft will be more challenging, IMO.
     
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  40. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    I think I ment moving the ball at will. Unfortunately, I was very much in the bag during that game but I specifically remember us getting on a roll and moving the ball late only to shoot ourselves in the foot. As I said, my memory is not too keen but I remember feeling we were getting right back in it until Ginn fumbled and then there was a penalty or vice-versa that was the dagger in the heart.

    Point is that we played a franchise that any team playing mistake free football in the NFL gets manhandled by (even if you beat them they beat on you), a team that in IMO defeated the so called undefeated regular season PATS, and I never once felt as hopeless as I felt last year.
     
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