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AFCE Champions, one and done?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Big E, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    This offseason has been a huge FA market for the AFCE division. Even we have made some moves but have we done enough to defend the division? You be the judge:

    Buffalo:
    Drayton Florence, CB. Had a dissapointing season but is good depth to a solid secondary.
    Terrell Owens, WR. Is an enigma in himself. Possibly one of the best ever, yet, also one of the worst wrapped into one. Will use this yr as a yr to show he still has something left, plus he has never been cut, so he will be extra motivated to do well.

    My Take: Buffalo out of all the teams in our division's new players worries me the least. Edwards is still Edwards. He shows signs of talent and being a solid QB but with a shaky Oline and lack of consistency, dont look for these FA's to make that big an impact.

    NY Jets:
    Marques Douglas DE, solid linemen, a career backup, but adds great depth.

    Bart Scott LB, Bart had 82 tackles last yr on a defense that included Ray Lewis,and Terril Suggs, the guy is possibly the best signing the Jets had hands down this off season. Calvin Pace, Bart Scott, David Harris....ouch.
    Larry Izzo, solid SP pick up.
    Jim Leonhard S, when McCallister was lost for the yr Leonhard came in and made people basically forget Chris even existed. Rhodes, and Leonhard will create multiple turnovers by being all over the field.
    Lito Sheppard CB, this is the only one that may bite the Jets in the rear, while he may turn out to be a good pick up injuries and coverage issues are a concern. He only had one pick last yr.

    My take: On paper these moves are huge for the Jets, but with no true #1 QB and possible RB contract disputes the D could be playing to win games, not get the offense the chance to. Plus I wonder how Coles being gone will turn out for the passing game.

    New England Patriots:
    Al Johnson, C, at 6-5 305 this guy is a monster at center.
    Joey Galloway, WR, Galloway just by himself would be a terrible FA pickup, but when you add him to a team that has Moss, Welker, Faulk, and Gaffney, he is huge. No team is going to be able to contain any trio of these players without leaving someone outmatched.
    Leigh Bodden, CB, Bodden only had one pick last yr, but as a corner he had 73 tackles. Solid pick.
    Greg Lewis, Wr, another solid depth player.
    Shawn Springs, CB, a solid shutdown corner, that at this point in his career will probably be used as a safety.
    My take: With the possibility that Jason Taylor and or Julius Peppers will also in up in this FA class, the rich have just got richer.

    Miami Dolphins:
    Eric Green, CB, Green has been brought in to replace Goodman and may fall short. Decent depth corner, but not on a team that lacks solid starters.
    Jake Grove C, at 6-4 300lbs Jake is the big center Sparano wanted for his line. Sparano knows Oline.
    Gibril Wilson, S, along with Bell will be a solid safety tandem, but without enough support from corners may prove inneffective.
    My take: BP has never been a huge FA guy, so this isnt that big of a shock that the players are minute in impact compared to others.
     
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  2. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I'll reserve my final judgement till after the draft.

    But it's definitely obvious that every team in our division improved this offseason. That, combined with our beast of a schedule, is going to make it very difficult for us to repeat IMO.

    Not saying we can't do it, but we're definitely going to need a lot of guys to step up. That and a killer draft.
     
  3. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    To be honest, I would say that the only position that we have a clear cut advantage at is OL.
     
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  4. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Yeh even the D line worries me some. With the Olines we go up against in the AFCE the lack of solid depth at the position hurts us. Look what happened last yr when Fergie went down.
     
  5. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I have a lot of confidence in Merling and Langford (esp.).

    But Jason Ferguson getting injured really destroys not only our DL, but our D as a whole. That's probably my biggest concern in general.
     
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  6. 124

    124 Banned

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    :lol:

    Jets 6-10?

    Are you kidding me?

    The team the Jets will be fielding in 2009 will be better than the 2008 squad (Clemens or Ratliff can do what Favre did) and we're going to be 3 games worse?

    Oh boy Travis, you never fail to bring out that Jet hatred. :lol:

    New England is going to win this division with at the least, 13 games won. They won't be any worse than 13-3.

    Jets & Dolphins will battle it out for 2nd and a Wild Card spot.

    Buffalo once again an after thought.
     
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  7. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Winning the division is only one aspect of what is going on in Miami. To me, the real question is are we building a champion that will compete year in and year out? I think the answer is yes we are. We are in the toughest division in the NFL, so there's a chance we may not win the East, but I'll also say we'll be good enough either way to compete for the Super Bowl. The Dolphins are building something that will last.
     
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  8. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    I think you're overreacting to what NE has done.

    1.Al Johnson - brought into Miami in the middle of the season after injuries hurt our OL. I originally thought he would be around to challenge Satele, but...we just let him walk. He was a AZ castoff and now he's a Miami castoff. How much of a "monster" could he be?
    2. Galloway is a huge question mark. He's going to be 38 this year and he's coming off a serious foot injury.
    3. Springs used to be really good, but he's mediocre at this point.
    4. Bodden may or may not be good.
    5. Lewis is, as you said, solid depth, but probably no better than Gafney.
    How much better these signings have made them remains to be seen. Nevertheless, the big names they signed; Galloway and Springs are over the hill and not nearly the players they used to be.
     
  9. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    lol What would make you think that Clemens or Ratliff can do what Farve did? Without Coles btw.

    The entire division got a lot better so he's probably taking that into account when giving a prediction.


    Yea, your D got a lot better, but your offense is taking a dive.

    Can you honestly answer yes to any of these questions:

    Is Clemens or Ratliff better than Farve?

    Is Thomas Jones going to have a repeat of last season?

    Do you have another WR to take Coles' spot that was as talented?

    Have you done anything to improve on offense at all?
     
  10. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    You should never again call any of us homers when you make a statement like this.
    If this is true why did Mangini even bother with Favre to being with?
     
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  11. phinfanuk

    phinfanuk Season Ticket Holder

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    I don't think we'll make the playoffs next season, the AFC east is just too strong. We still need another playmaker on offense and I think statistically we'll take a step back next season. That isn't to say I'll be disappointed though, I think we need to look to the season after next for a superbowl push.
     
  12. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    You don't really believe that, do you?

    All that needs to be said is that group matched our win total from a year ago without the best football player in the league, among other high profile injuries.

    All indications are that Brady will be set to go come September. If that is indeed the case, they're a better football team on paper.
     
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  13. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The jets will be lucky to go 6-10 for two reasons:

    1. QB: Favre may have sucked in December, but he won games from Sept-November. Kellen Clemens and Ratliff can do what Favre did? Maybe they can replicate his December, but not his September-November.

    2. RB: Thomas Jones will start to show the wear and tear of being 30+ years old with roughly 300 carries in the past 4 years. Leon Washington is a nice 3rd down back, but he's too small to carry the ball on a regular basis. If Jones goes down, y'all are screwed.

    jetsuck!
     
  14. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I agree. Statistically speaking, Pennington has never had back-to-back successful seasons. Whether it's injuries or missteps in his game, it just hasn't happened.

    I can't look at his track record and say we have an advantage at QB in this division.
     
  15. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    No one with even a remotely objective view could make that claim.

    If if's and but's were candy and nuts we'd... you know the rest.
     
  16. Tiki

    Tiki New Member

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    Don't worry about it. We weren't supposed to win the AFC East last year, was shocking we did. If we don't repeat this season, it won't be a tragedy. Miami is on a long term growth plan, not a stupid lets try and do it all at once. That is what the Jets attempted to do last year, what the Redskins have been trying for many years now. It doesn't work.

    If we want the Phins to be the next Pats, we need to be patient, continue on the path that garnered so much so quickly last year. Continue to build through the draft, make smart, while not flashy, FA moves for guys that are solid players who are about 4-6 years into their careers.

    There is still much to be done to make us true and on going SB contenders. We have WR issues, we have secondary issues, we have questions along the defensive front.

    Slow and steady will win the race numerous times over and over again. It will not only give us the opportunity to win one Super Bowl, but be in the hunt for many more over the span of the next decade. That is what I want.
     
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  17. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    lol True that. I'd rather be the next NE Patriots than the next Cleveland Steamers.
     
  18. Tiki

    Tiki New Member

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    Absolutely agree

    We are in the process of building a solid foundation upon which we will be able to plug in new players as needed and remain highly competitive for years to come.

    I don't want to win just one SB, I want to win MANY of them, all clumped together in a short period of time. I want us to be the next Patriots! Even if everyone else in the league will hate us and get tired of hearing about our greatness. What would really be special is to be the next team to go perfect again!! :up:

    I am with you...:knucks:
     
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  19. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    To be honest, I can't believe you're even attempting to debate a Brady - Pennington or Patriots QB's - Dolphins QB's discussion. Its no contest. There's absolutely nothing out there to suggest that Brady won't be his normal self in 2009 (aside from a bogus Tom Curran article).

    Is there anyone here who wouldn't take Brady over Pennington, even at 90%?

    Applying this logic, I could say the Colts won't be contenders next year IF Manning goes down. That's not objective analysis, its wishful thinking.
     
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  20. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    Exactly. Funny thing is that there is going to be plenty of hype between now and the start of the season concerning Brady. We're going to see lots of video showing how well he's throwing the football and how he's apparently showing no ill effects ....blah, blah, blah.
    But none of that is going to mean a thing until game time and he's getting pressured. That's when we'll find out whether or not he's all the way back.
     
  21. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    Do you have some type of evidence to support otherwise? Every article I've read states that he'll be ready to go come September. Brady himself echoed similar thoughts and clearly, the Patriots organization feels comfortable with the situation, as evidenced by the Cassel deal. Please, if there's something out there I've missed, by all means, show me.

    With a healthy Brady, he would have been the 4th or 5th best QB.

    As I said, until I'm provided with some type of evidence to support the idea that he won't be himself heading into next season, this is wishful thinking.
     
  22. Duss

    Duss Season Ticket Holder

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    It's going to be real funny to look at Owens and the bills implode when Trent Edwards starts throwing ducks.

    As long as the jets dont improve their QB play, I am not worried


    The pats, now they will win the division, I think we can make the wildcard barely
     
  23. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    oh man.......

    explain to me how new england ADDS joey galloway, shawn springs, and leah bodden oh and tom brady..........and has a ton of early picks.....and they get WORSE?!?! Mayo has a year under his belt....merriwheather another year under his belt....fred taylor taking time off maroney and morris......you cant be serious right?

    i mean i know we hate them and all....but jesus lets be realistic.....and the bills at 8-8 is hilarious.......

    and for the record....no way we win 11.....
     
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  24. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    stop comparing culpepper and brady.......

    pep couldnt hold bradys jock.....and pep is a mobile quaterback who shredded his knee......every ligament.....brady tore his acl......2 entirley different injuries
     
  25. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    :hi5: 100% right, brother.
    I submit that Brady is going to be gun shy. People can call that wishful thinking if they want to....don't really care.
    But I've seen how bothered Brady gets when he's not allowed to get comfortable. The last time we saw the guy he was crumbling under pass rush pressure. Now in addition he's lost his QB coach of the past several years.
    So I think he will struggle more than some believe.
     
  26. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Going into the draft, I think the Patriots should be considered the favorites--hurts to say that.

    Tom Brady's health is certainly a question mark. Although our QB position is stable, we can't forget that Chad Pennington has yet to play two straight fully healthy seasons.

    I think the addition of Jake Grove is a big one. Not only does it really strengthen the interior of our OLine......but it really stregthens the interior of our OLine, haha. We now have another swing interior OLineman in Grove and Satele. We have a lot of talent and potential on the OLine, but other than the tackles, our OLine was really atrocious in the interior (Smiley was having a solid season, but we still ran the ball poorly up the middle in normal formations). We don't know what we really have at the interior--between a new starter in Grove, a 2nd year player (rookie really) in Thomas and Smiley, has he ever played a full year? there are some question marks.

    If we're going to put question marks on the best player in our division and say our position is more stable than NE's because of it, you can't discount our injury concerns on the OL and not use the same reasoning.

    If NE gets a healthy Brady along with Julius Peppers and/or Jason Taylor, they are clear-cut favorite in our Division.

    Our division is tough and I honestly don't expect much to change from last year even with Brady. What I mean by that is I believe all 4 teams will be right there with a chance coming into the last 6 games of the year.

    As bad as Trent Edwards has looked, Terrell Owens will make him better. TO does it every time his first year. That passing offense will be improved, but that OLine needs some re-tooling if they want to go anywhere--they were awful (Jason Peters Pro Bowler--absolute mockery)
     
  27. The Aqua Crush

    The Aqua Crush New Member

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    Nice recap so far. Good takes as well.

    I really have a hard time finding a sports team let alone an nfl team who acquires FA talent at a huge price and then get drastically better.

    The only team that has a record of bringing in big name free agents and getting production from them is the pats. Their about the only one in the AFC east who spent big in FA that worries me, Billicheck seems to always know what pieces will fit.

    The bills seemingly upgraded slightly, but doubt it will have a big impact. The jets well this is big FA spending for two years in a row and last year it didn't seem to help them much at all.

    It could help these teams, but doubt it will. I'm not convinced the NY Yankee / Redskins way of managing resources is a good way to equal more wins.

    Although i am in the middle of reading Moneyball, which is like the bill parcells way of adding value at much better price, because he i think understands what he needs to add with extreme precision, and the most cost effective way to acquire those needs.

    Time will tell but should be intersting speculation up until the first week of the season.
     
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  28. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    New England is full of holes? No...DETROIT, is full of holes. If Brady plays and is 100% they field an even MORE stacked team then when they almost went undefeated. And yeh O'Connell is not a threat, but at the beginning of the year last year was Cassell? The FA's NE signed are significant due to the fact that they add depth in areas they were scarce. You are correct they aren't significant separate, but together they make this team deep, and dangerous. As for the New York argument, except for 124 cough*homer*cough, I think we all agree without a stable QB they are not going to compete THIS yr, This yr being the key.
     
  29. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    New England is dangerous. Only a fool would dispute that. I wouldn't underestimate what the focus, confidence and determination of this Dolphins team can accomplish either, though. We got a few lucky breaks this past season / we had a few go against us. But we went 11-5 with a bunch of nobodies. Let another year of maturation for the 08 draft and see what we can add. I wouldn't be surprised if we can pull off 11-5 again, and if we can do that, with the schedule we have, we'll be in pretty good shape.
     
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  30. TheAnswer385

    TheAnswer385 Stay Low Run Free

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    Gaffney isn't there anymore he went to Denver
     
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  31. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    regarding some of the squabbling, i think we need to realize there is a wide range of possibilities.

    in buffalo, the team that started out as the beast of the east for the first 6 games COULD be a force to reckon with again. trent edwards is not bad at all. if healthy, he could be a solid player. and easily better than anyone on the Jets at qb.

    the Jets really dont scare me. i think ryan will be a bigger bust than gholston, and i think the city cries for Pace's useless blood after this season. they'll lay eggs on given weeks, and would shock me if they were any better than in 08. lotta bark, regular losing.

    NE is getting old and acquiring old FAs. you get that sense that they are making a "push", but this push would be better suited in 2006. Brady is a wildcard and could have a terrible year. some weeks, they'll look old a pedestrian, and others they'll put up 50. despite the spending, i dont think they'll be a juggernaut...just good as usual.

    it wouldnt shock me if miami lost a step and went 10-6 or even 9-7. but we're laying the best foundation in this division and will be a big force in in 2010. we're adding quality guys and real footballers. we need another solid draft, and merling/langford to continue to grow.

    it'd shock me if anyone won over 12 games in this division.

    my order for the best team outlook(minus Miami)
    1.Bills
    2.Pats
    3.Jets
     
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  32. 124

    124 Banned

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    Woody Johnson bothered with Brett Favre for PSL's for the new stadium, it is no secret if you're a Jets fan or living in the NJ/NY area and the Jets are competing with (at the time) the world champion New York Giants.

    You're telling me Clemens or Ratliff can't throw as many TD's as INT's?

    You're telling me Clemens or Ratliff can't game manage? Because whenever Favre as asked to do more than that, he ****ed it up.
     
  33. PENNSYLVANIADOLPHAN

    PENNSYLVANIADOLPHAN Well-Known Member

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    No, they can't. Why? Because they've never done it before. When they do, talk to us.

    Miami, to me, is the favorite in the division. We won it in 08, so they have to take it away from us. Yes, that is the homerish side of me.
     
  34. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    I am not sure why everyone is so worried about the Pat's so-called great off season. Pretty much every guy they've picked up is over 30 and guys that were discarded elsewhere. If the Pats pick up Peppers they have to spend a ton of money meeting his contract demands and have to give up two first rounders (if he is franchised). Not sure how that makes them better?, especially with Brady coming off of knee surgery.
     
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  35. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    Actually the pats no longer have Jabar Gaffney
     
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  36. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    We're worried because they won 11 games without the best player in the league. I don't care if they had the exact same roster as last year (which they don't, its clear they've improved with the additions of Bodden, Springs and Galloway) and their young guys don't progress, that in itself makes them the favorites.

    This idea that he'll be "gun shy" is speculation at its finest. Fact is, Ronnie Brown went to the Pro-Bowl a year following a similar injury at a position that demands so much more from the knee.
     
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  37. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Yeh I tend to think on any other team, these pickups would be laughable, but not on NE.
     
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  38. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Too much is and will be made of us winning the AFCE. We squeaked by in winning the East due to our weak schedule. As a team, we improved over the last few years, if for nothing more than in organization and leadership. We all know the rebuild that was started last year isn't anywhere near done yet. There will be setbacks and, as has been pointed out succinctly above, things certainly haven't remained stagnant with our AFCE com padres....This team has as many holes to fill as they did last offseason. Can we fill them all...lets wait to analyze better after the draft and UDFA's sign...same with the rest of the AFCE teams...don't forget that NE has about 40 draft picks with 27 of them in the top 3 rounds...the jests are unknowns because of 2 things...one is a new regime that seems to be much more capable than the last few...( that's for you 124) and two is who is going to be their QB...and then there's Barfalo...while things have remained the same, they've changed quite a bit...TO could give them the explosion their missing on O and they are tough on D...there's just too many variables right now to say "one and done for us unequivocally" and yet there are compelling reasons to say "one and done"...
     
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  39. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    :lol:...No wonder Aqua was a landslide winner in the "Biggest homer" category!

    Realistically the Pats are about 13-3 the Phins 10-6 The Jets 8-8 and the Jills 7-9.
     
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  40. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What makes you think they can game manage. If it were that easy, playing QB in the NFL would be a breeze.
     

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