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About GINN! Lets get this out of the way

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Sep 12, 2009.

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  1. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Im refering to Ted Ginn. Now before I go any further this is not a HATE thread its not. However I do have no doubts in my mind that TED GINN will never become a true #1 Stud wideout.

    I do think he will be serviceable and a good #2 in the NFL. So before we get the season underway how many games with 6-65 yards or 8-70 yard games does it take before we can officially say he isn't going to be that guy?

    I know the season hasn't started and Im not going to bash him for a few games, but this is Season #3 Im not willing to wait and hear everyone say hes young let him learn. THREE years when rookies last year and the year before lighted up the scoreboard on multiple occasions.

    I think he will be better this year but I dont see him as a 1,000 yard receiver this year at all. I think the writing is on the wall and hes not going to get an extension unless he steps up, I just haven't seem that in him at least not in the preseason.

    So the question is when are you ready to call it like it is? Wishing is all good and well but sometimes we need to face it..

    I sure hope Im wrong, and I would love to wrong but I see chris chambers all over him. Potential that just never transforms.
     
  2. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    I don't think this offense would produce many 1,000 yard WR's, no matter who you have out there. Until you have a QB that can take advantage of the skill set that Ginn has, he isn't going to reach his full potential. He's shown very good progress, I hope he continues that this year, but I think it's too early to call him a bust. Take a look at a guy like Steve Smith, he didn't burn up the league until his 3rd year, give the kid a break.
     
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  3. pennphinfan

    pennphinfan Stelin Canez Arcade Scorz

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    You claim it's not a bashing thread, but it's all negativity and you're trying to set an over/under before we can 'officially' call him bust? why not just call him a bust now if you're already believing that?

    I don't mean to sound snippy but I really dislike seeing negative opinions on players for a season that hasn't begun yet. It's the day before our opener, why not be optimistic a bit? Sure, if Ted has a bad year then it's something to discuss, but as L2G said with the way our offense is set up it's going to be hard to have Ginn put up numbers like some of the elite receivers in this league. What we need to focus on is: is he getting better at route running? is he making smart decisions?

    in his first 2 seasons, he's shown that when he gets the ball he can do damage, so I'm not concerned with yardage issues. he has a high YPC and YAC average, but the questions surround him are if he can consistently shed the cornerbacks and get open. I think we have seen too over time last season and this preseason that pennington is becoming more comfortable with him, so soon we ginn supporters won't be able to use the "well chad just doesn't want to throw to him" excuse for him not getting balls. He does need to show improvement in his short game.

    I don't think Ginn is a WR god... (yet..). But he's young and has potential, and that's what we need right now. Our team has so much young talent, and one bad part about going from 1-15 to 11-5 is that it has pumped our expectations. Half the fun of football is watching your team grow and get better. I for one am incredibly excited about watching our youth, notably the rookies, get some real experience against tough, tough competition this year.
     
  4. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I couldn't disagree with this post any more. Of course I respect your opinion though.

    What exactly do you expect out of a receiver in his first and second years in the league? Sure there are so freaks that perform right away, however most do not. Ginn has issues, but his issues are not the killer issues. He doesn't have problems catching balls over the middle, he doesnt have problems using his hands, he doesn't have problems catching along the sideline, and he doesn't have concentration problems.

    His problem? His frame, and route running. Both have gotten better each year, and I absolutely loved what I saw from him this preseason. He has been getting open with consistancy, running good routes and he just looks like a much better player. I don't see why people don't give him any time.
     
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  5. TheAnswer385

    TheAnswer385 Stay Low Run Free

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    boooo
     
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  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    About Gin...I prefer a touch of tonic water and lime with mine.

    As for Teddy Ginn...apparently he has won the kick returner job, to me that is a big deal, he can now challenge Leon Washington for the total yardage crown in the AFC East.

    I'd be thrilled with 1,000 yds receiving and 1,200 yds in return yardage.
     
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  7. pennphinfan

    pennphinfan Stelin Canez Arcade Scorz

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    indeed. I had myself some beefy with some tonic and lime not too long ago :up:
     
  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Nice....:hi5:

    As for Ginn, cripes why can't people just be happy with what he does for us?

    In our offense, 900 yds is about the ceiling for a Wr, we spread the ball around so much unless a player is just a rocket with the ball.

    Which means if Ginn is doubled, Greg C will be targeted, that is how our offense works, now if it is true that Teddy G is back on kickoffs, he has a chance to shine outside of the spread it around philosophy of the Offense.

    Now that said, the man cannot block...period...take that out of the playbook.
     
  9. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Listen Im opptomstic it's just Ive been around too long for the rose colored glasses like some people.

    Do I hoep for the best yes, do I have my doubts yes.. But the fact of the matter is he was the #9 pick in the NFL draft. Hes being paid like the man though he isn't.

    I know he didn't draft himself but the fact of the matter is this team is Counting on him to be THE MAN not a good receiver but the MAIN MAN. Hes been in the league three years and in that time plenty of other receivers have been picked and have done very well.

    We all have our own opinions and yes the season hasn't started but Im not sure we can go the whole year counting on him to be the man. I really think hes not the man.

    and if im wrong I will make it right and eat my crow.. I do have very positive feelings about this season however I do believe Teddy will not be one of those positive things..

    Been there done that seen that.. Id trade him for Desaun Jackson in a heartbeat oh he was a rookie as well and excelled quite nicely no? How about Eddie Royal from Denver? There are plenty more of rookies with great first years..

    And the whole we need a QB to throw to him isn't going to cut it. Pennington had the best year EVER for him and for us since Marino Left so if the BEST QB couldn't get him to play better what will??
     
  10. vabchbirdlover

    vabchbirdlover New Member

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    Roddy White was in the same boat, ist 2 yrs, nada - 2nd 2 yrs, Pro bowl caliber. Might be a bit premature to label him a bust - Just my 2cents...
     
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  11. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    oh good...... a new topic.......


    :deadhorse:
     
  12. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Here is an exercise for you, that might help you be a little more optimistic.

    List your top 15 receivers in the league. Look at their first and second year stats. Compare to Ginn.
     
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  13. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    most WRs are in that same position.....i was a ginn hater.....but no more

    he has had 2 diff head coaches, and multiple QBs in 2 years....

    he has been in this system now for going on year 2, with the same qb.....i like his chances to have a very good year :up:
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The thing of it is, we really do not have a "#1 Wr" Dorfdad, the offense just does not work like that, in fact last season Ginn had the great Buffalo game, then Greg C had a great game at Denver, both topped 100 yds, the other was not really targeted in the opposite game.
     
  15. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    just like fasano was all-world tight end for 2 weeks.....then a ghost for 3 weeks.....this offense is built with multiple weapons that keeps the defense guessing each and every single week
     
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  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And that is how our offense works, Fasano basically went 4 weeks without a TD in the middle of the season, Ginn went off for 180 yds, then Greg C burned Denver for 130.

    That is a part of the reason why I'm thrilled that Ginn may be doing kickoff returns, he has the talent to be really great at that as he made the pbowl as an alternate in 07 as a returner.

    And to me, it means that Ginn is much more of an all around weapon than he was in 07, not that he was garbage in 08, recall that two key plays last season, a 4th down conversion against Oakland and the TD catch against the Jets in the last game, it is not as if Ginn goes ghost when the lights come on.
     
  17. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I hear you and I can accept that but besides the one buffalo game I really cant see where he has shinned.

    I hope he makes me shut up honestly. I hope he makes a big difference in the Kick Return area as well I think he will be good there.

    If he could give us 5 100 yard games and give us 5 50 yard games and a few 75 yard games I would be happy. But one game isnt enough.

    But hell come Sunday 1PM I will be rooting for him 100% hes a DOLPHIN and IM a fan, so I will give him a chance to show up but if we get to week 5 and hes been doing 5-50 yard games Im going to baste him...
     
  18. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    All Ted Ginn needs to do to not be a bust IMHO is to keep improving. Improvement this year would be 1 of two things. 1000 yards receiving, or maybe slightly less but more TDs. I don't see any reason why Ginn can't do that this year. Let's see what happens. No reason for this negativity on Kickoff eve.
     
  19. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ginn will improve to me if when we watch a game, everytime he touches the ball we think he can take it to the house, I'd love to see Ginn be that explosive for us.

    I could see Ginn scoring on a reception, a return, a end around and via Ginn throwing a pass off of the end around, now THAT would be explosive offense from a player.
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    iam sure you could add some hall of famers to that list as well.
     
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lol...you calling dorfdad dorfdad is funny....sorry for the interuption

    You gotta work on your name abbreviation skills PD...lol
     
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  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Everytime I hear "dorf":

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt8t08lD43w"]YouTube - Dorf On Golf 3 of 3[/ame]

    Sorry of the OT, "Dorf on..." was one of my favorite comedy routines as a wee dolphin pup.
     
  23. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    Oh man, I wish I knew how to make videos. I make a "PLEASE LEAVE TED GINN ALONE!!!" video.
    Seriously, though...
    These are my thoughts. People who make their living evaluating talent for the NFL seem to all agree that skilled position players entering the NFL will quite often require up to 3 years to develop. It's not me saying it. Its HC's, GM's, scouts, etc. They're the ones who say this. The fact that some will develop sooner does not diminish the FACT that many do need up to 3 years.
    This is Ginn's THIRD season. He's not been in the league 3 years yet.
    Another thing to consider, is coming out of college Ginn was considered an "unpolished route runner"; as many are who have been able to rely on their speed to carry them through. Then they enter the NFL and lo and behold they find they have learn to run sharp routes. What I've read is that Ginn has been working hard to become a great route runner.
    I don't understand what you mean by you "aren't willing to wait..."
    Your opinion is your opinion and it's not going to change Ginn's performance. You can call him a bust right now if you want. You can disregard anything and everything said to the contrary.
    Myself, I think it's fair to give him that 3 year window before passing judgment.
     
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  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol...ahhhh tim conway, good stuff..
     
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  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Interesting factoid, OJ McDuffie was far less productive a player in his first two seasons as Ted Ginn was, in fact OJ had 1 1,000 yd season:

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McDuO.00.htm

    To be honest, Ginn and McDuffie's careers mirror each other, if Ginn returns to 07 form returning kicks they will be virtually identical.

    Interesting stuff, OJ in his first two season had a whopping 688 yards...with Dan Marino slinging the rock, but man could OJ return some kicks!
     
  26. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Ginn's playing on carpet tomorrow...'nuff said.
     
  27. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    so are all the DBs and Safetys.......its a even playing field....
     
  28. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'm not a big Ginn fan, I think he is good, not a legit #1

    But Ginn can shut up all the naysayers by having a super year, its in his court.

    Hopefully it starts tomorrow.
     
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  29. bbqpitlover

    bbqpitlover Well-Known Member

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    That is not totally true as Pennington has throw to Wayne Chrebet for over a 1000 yards in a season. Maybe it's true this offense is not set up for one receiver to have 1,000 plus yards. In a way this is a knock on Pennington he doesn't deserve as he has more than enough potential to feed a wr who can get open for 1000 plus yards in a season. That being said the facts are Ginn is the number one receiver on this team, I do not like Ginn but I will stand behind the coaches decision and root him on. Ginn is a dolphin and I hope he tears it up and score over 10 times we all be in heaven if he did. GO PHINS!!!!!!!
     
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  30. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    This is the year Ted Ginn will showcase the talent and become the wide receiver envisioned by Cameron when they drafted him. He will become the wide receiver Dolphins fans hoped Chris Chambers would become. It's undeniable that he has finally learned the proper way to run his routes, setting up his moves to get open. Also he's better at getting off the press. He played with confidence for the first time since he came into the league this past preseason. He is ready to go and will be a challenge for the CBs set to defend against him.

    Unfortunately he will have to wait one more year before his stats catch up to what he's capable of doing. Pennington's dink and dunk approach doesnt play to Ginn's strengths which are stretching the field. It plays to Bess's strengths but not Ginn's. He will need Henne to step in before his statistics catch up with his skills
     
  31. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    This is a good point. I agree with l2g's point to a certain extent because this is an offense that is not going to feature any specific player. I expect it to be a lot like last year where the WRs and even RBs are going to take turns being the go to guy. When defenses key in on that player it will be somebody else's turn.

    I don't think it will have anything to do with Chad's arm strength as plenty of WRs have thrived with Pennington slinging them the rock. Chrebet who you already mentioned, Santana Moss, and Laverneous Coles just to name a few.
     
  32. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB

    In short: Exactly.
     
  33. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Oh, Oh, Oh Fitzmagic Club Member

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    please, thread makes no sense. :pity: if he averages 8-70/game that adds up to 128 catches for 1140 yards. I call that a pro-bowl wide reciever. Even 6-65 is 96 catches for ~1000 yards, again highly successful season.
     
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  34. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Just sayin' it plays to his strength, but again, like every other poster in here is trying to say, if they want to take Ginn out of the game... we'll let them. If they don't, he's gonna make them pay. How many oppurtunities he gets really is'nt up to him.
     
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  35. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly, and that is "why" Ginn returning kicks is such a plus, the Defense can double him while he is on offense, if he breaks a couple of returns there is little they can do to stop him.
     
  36. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We agree very much on this brother.

    I will say, tomorrow is a perfect day to showcase the new improved Teddy Ginn.

    The turf is right, and that Atlanta defensive backfield is NOT good.

    We will see.
     
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  37. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Only thing I've seen in this thread worth reading. Glad I'm not the first person to give this thread the number of stars it deserves: 1.
     
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  38. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    If he got 8 rec and 70 yards every week he would have 128 rec and 1120 yards.

    Sorry if you missed out on the countless Ginn debates, but you are wrong. Trust me.
     
  39. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Actually he isn't being paid out of proportion to his production. He was the 46th highest paid WR in the league last year and he was 41st in yards, 46th in receptions and 26th in avg (over 30 receptions).

    As for what I expect this year, I think he will be right around 1000 yards. That will be despite the fact that CP, as good as he is, doesn't throw deep often. Anybody who has paid attention has seen Ginn get open deep and not be thrown to. I guarantee you that other teams have seen it.

    Ginn is a very important part of our offense even if he doesn't get thrown to deep b/c he is the only element we have that stretches the field vertically. He is a huge part of what helps CP have enough space to complete all those short to medium passes and he helps provide space for our running game. I recognize that most fans can't see his contribution but coaches do. It is no coincidence that all through TC Ginn's job was the only WR job that was set.
     
  40. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    I'm with you.:up::up::up: The next thing we'll read is why didn't we take Quinn after the Cleveland game today.:pity: and :deadhorse::deadhorse:
     

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