Oh they definitely knew, come on in today's day of consistent vetting, they probably knew who he was hanging out with..... The Pats rolled the dice plan and simple and it worked wonders for a few years....
Uh, how about him to texting pictures of him with a firearm when he was in college. The fact that the Patriots weren't able to figure that out isn't something that absolves them of blame. They need to do their due diligence. Not to mention that Hernandez was a first round talent that dropped to the fourth round, because of his character concerns. Sent from my HTC One GE using Tapatalk 4 Beta
So your saying you wouldn't of signed that young stud to an extension because of a picture he took in college?
The picture is just one example. There is plenty more evidence, which is why he lasted until the fourth round. There's no reason the Patriots shouldn't have known he was still associating with gang members after he was drafted. Matt Light pretty much confirmed that everyone knew what he was up to. Sent from my HTC One GE using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Some people are more perceptive than others. When you are running a billion dollar enterprise, you need to be the perceptive one. Information on Hernandez's lifestyle is something that could have been uncovered with enough investigation.
I'm not sure why this is argument anymore. Red flags are warnings. Those warning were not heeded. Even the Pats agree, to the point they are going to change their approach from now on: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--even-after-aaron-hernandez-fiasco--nfl-teams-remain-in-danger-of-getting--duped--060925854.html You don't change things like that, if you didn't think there were mistakes made.
So by this logic, Miami should be following Pouncey like a hawk since he was involved in a shooting that left a man permanently injured in college, right? No one is arguing the red flags from college, but some of the evidence you guys are pointing too came out AFTER the fact. Tat picture of him holding the gun, for example, came out during this investigation. It wasnt on TMZ last year or even April of this year. I came out during a time when EVERYONE was digging up dirt on Aaron. It's unreasonable to suggest that The Patriots would know aot it, or care even since the picture is literally a few years old. Again, this is people applying knowledge they know today to a time period where this isn't known to anyone. Clearly Aaron wasn't a model citizen as a pro. But considering that his name never came up in that other murder investigation until after all of this stuff went down, you can't expect anyone with the Pats to know anything about it. The only red flags that were available to them were from college, which caused him to fall to the fourth round and lose a ton of money and prestige. Since then, he gave the Pats no indication that he was up to no good. And with hundreds of employees on Kraft's watch, as well as a dying wife, I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that hiring a P.I. For one employee who has given you zero cause of problems, would be a waste of resources. Honestly, at the time of the extension, it would have made more sense to watch Gronk than Hernandez. I don't blame the Patriots at all in this. They have handled everything correctly, in my estimation. From cutting Hernandez once arrested (before charges were announced) to the jersey swap, to Kraft's statement about him. Absolutely perfect. as for the babysitter question, Fin D, it is an awful comparison and analogy, but I would totally put cameras up, especially if she was hot.
I still don't think you grasp what we're saying. The fact that he had the red flags he did in college and the rumblings we've heard about while in on the Pats, absolutely called for the Pats to monitor his behavior more than they did. that was their mistake. It doesn't matter if you personally can't see how his past behavior can lead to what is going or not. You guys keeping taking one red flag and saying that doesn't equal murder, when no one is saying that. What we are saying is ALL of his red flags combined in college and the pros, equal up to more monitoring of the player than there was. Even the Pats agree. Its not that awful of analogy, considering my point is that you'd be proactive in the monitoring instead of reactive, which is what you're arguing for in the case of AH.
Pats IMO were smart about drafting Hernandez. Yeah they knew about character issues but a 4th round pick is worth the risk. It paid off too. Then when it came to renegotiating his contract, they saw how he changed his ways. They got duped. Plain and simple. It looked like he was a changed man. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They're the NFL not the NSA. What were the red flags, that would be reasonably discovered by an NFL team, that the Pats missed? Jt nailed it right above this post.
"I never talk about other guys, but I will say I have never embraced — never believed in — anything Aaron Hernandez stood for" You don't say that about a good teammate. You say "Aaron never seemed like the type, if this is true I'm very surprised". Honestly I'm shocked if none of the players knew he was in with a bad crowd. You make friends with SOME of your teammates. They at some point must meet some of the people you hang with and form opinions. Or even from just hanging out with people you can get some idea of what type of person they are. Then rumors must spread to some degree as well to where everyone knows something is up. <- Not saying always or even in this case. Just saying I'd be shocked if no-one knew he wasn't a model citizen. Also no-one is saying the Pats should have known he'd shoot someone. They are saying maybe if you're going to spend big/good money on a player you should use their character in that evaluation and do your homework. And as a side note...let's leave pot out of this. A failed drug test for pot isn't a red flag. Lots of people smoke every single day and they don't go out and shoot people or even have serious character flaws.
Say what you will, but Kraft is a hell of an owner, guy is so on top of the game.....ugh and I hate saying that.....
ohhhhh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttt dawgggggggggggg....... Goodell going to suspend his ***.....git em ROGER GIT. HIM. He got that look that says "Belichick going to beat my *** in"
Riddle me this...... Lets say the trial starts (or lets say before it starts either way) and Ortiz (career criminal) testifies that Wallace (career criminal) said to him that he saw AH pull the trigger. There is no gun and no proof that he did other than undesirables hearsay. AH (no priors and a celebrity athlete) takes the stand and says "That is funny that Wallace said that because he is wrong, HE pulled the trigger" What happens? Remember you have to have clear and convincing evidence that AH indeed did it to convict on a Murder 1 wrap. If ONE of those jurors says innocent he gets off....
They do have video of Hernandez walking into his home with a .45. That's circumstantial, but still very incriminating. We also know that Hernandez orchestrated the entire event via text message. Sent from my HTC One GE using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Right but as you know that doesn't constitute Murder 1, what if Wallace handed him off the gun right before he got into the house? They also have evidence I believe of him walking out with it in the beginning of the night too. Murder 1 involves intent, which I agree they have via text and the relationship to his GF's sister and you have to have the action; as of right now they don't have it other than a career criminal saying "he did it"....
Most murders are convicted with evidence that is equivilant. Most muderers don't just murder someone and then jump up and down screaming, "I killed him! I killed him!"
Only takes one juror to have reasonable doubt... Still, even if he is guilty of conspiracy, it's fairly similar punishment, or at least down here it is. What's the law up there, Yank?
That doesn't fly up here Dupree, they need to prove he pulled that trigger, a good criminal defense atty and Fee is one of the best in Boston is easily going to cast reasonable doubt if all they have is a video of him in his house with a gun, and a thug rat saying he did it.... Some dynamic is going to have to change, or the gun is going to have to show up.... Conspiracy to Commit Murder carries a sentencing guideline anywhere from 1-20 years...however Tip he isn't charge with that yet.... Similar in that it is a long time in jail....but Murder 1 is life w/o parole.....whereas he would get out on conspiracy... If he got 20 on conspiracy with good time and programs he would do about 12 AND I bet he gets released to a home confinement after about 4-6 years of those.....Money talks boys.... Stupid *** should have done it here....Max on conspiracy in RI is 10....
Exact same sort of thing happened here in Colorado some years back. A couple of kids were shot and killed by some older kids. When the trials started, both defenses pulled the "I was there, but the other guy did the shooting" defense. It worked. Both got convicted of being accessories to the murder and neither convicted of the murder itself. So to sum up, two kids dead, two older kids that were accessory to the murder, but no murderers. Just the way things go sometimes in our legal system...
With that comes some major ramifications though for AH, namely he may get off but he has to worry about being a rat, and retribution now. Also if he is really gang affiliated that weighs on his decision making as well I would think....
Luckily I have not yet met one human being who has reasonable doubt Hernandez was the trigger man. Not to say some don't or evidence couldn't sway that opinion....but it seems the consensus now is that he did it.
Imagine if Kraft put a hit out on the poor guy and gave Hernandez the gun.....no more Patriots. In all seriousness I see it as slightly unlikely others were tied to his murdering activities but possible for sure. Some real head cases.
I can say one of those 3 guys did but to say AH 100% pulled the trigger I can't. It could have been anybody them. All we know is AH if it were to play out as a cold case and nobody ever got caught, had the most to gain by Lloyd being dead. However this still doesn't mean he did it.
From everything we hear, Hernandez didn't hang out with any other football players. Sent from my HTC One GE using Tapatalk 4 Beta
It's a bad analogy because in that analogy, she was a child abusing thief...in charge of a child...in my house. Clearly that correlates directly. Aaron Hernandez smoking weed in college, does not. A pro athlete who admitted to doing drugs in college and has passed years of drug tests, both voluntarily and mandatory, since then...wouldn't constitute me putting extra eyes on him after awhile. If he keeps his nose clean, literally and figuratively, given the reasonable tests and checks/balances he has gone through, then yeah, he earns a certain amount of trust. Just like anyone would. And there were ZERO red flags of him on the Patriots. NONE. You are either lying, or sitting on information that no one else knows of. Everything that has come out, has come out after the fact. Everyone, and all indications pointed to Hernandez being a responsible pro athlete...hence the contract extension. On a somewhat related note to both of the scenarios above, my daughter was gifted a stuffed animal alligator. I named him Aaron Hernades and drew on him with ink to simulate tattoos. My daughter's mother was...less than thrilled by this. Buzzkill.
Yeah, you're still hung up on this and not understanding what is being said. No one is saying weed leads to murder. No one is saying that the Pats should have known AH was going to commit murder because he smoked weed. What we are saying is that: #1. There was more than weed smoking as red flags. #2. Based on those red flags during college and the pros, they should have investigated him a little better before giving him his new contract. #3. Had they investigated him a little better, they may have found out he was still running with the wrong element and put some more protections for themselves into the contract. As for your daughter, maybe see if you can smooth things over by getting her a Furby, give it a gun, name it George Zimmerman and teach it to yell, 'Not in my neighborhood!"
Idk if posted but the Pouncy bros were wearing "free Hernandez" hats at their birthday party. Keepin it classy Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I will never support Pouncey again. Football is secondary to life, which in my book he has now failed at.
I get exactly what you are saying. What I am countering with is that there were no known red flags of him as a pro. The red flags in college (weed, bar fights, etc.) were reflected in the draft placement of Hernandez, as well as the substantial financial hit he took by dropping from the first round down to the fourth. THOSE red flags, cost him millions. His time as a pro, earned him that contract from the Patriots. In large part because he was productive on the field, while seemingly a model citizen off of it. Again, there were NO red flags about him as a pro. Which leads us back to the original question that sparked all of this from DJ. This is why they gave him that contract. Young stud TE that hasn't had made issues for us off the field. Our other young stud TE (Gronk) HAS made minor waves for us. Perhaps we should lock the former up now, as opposed to later when his demands might be out of our financial threshold to keep him. That is my theory on why they signed him, anyways. The contract itself isn't a bad one for a game changing, all around talented, tight end. It's a terrible contract for a murdering thug, of course. But again, that is strictly hindsight...the land that some of you in here are living in. We changed the name of the alligator to Lyle "The Killer Crocodile," Hernandez. Not sure why an alligator has crocodile as a nickname...but it seems to work.
Matt Light said he's never embraced nor believed in anything Hernandez stood for. Something warranted that belief from Hernandez's fellow teammate, and I can't imagine Light is the only one to feel that way.
Matt Light also said this AFTER Hernandez was arrested for murder. He never mentioned anything prior to it. So with all due respect for Matt Light, he is full of ****. Besides joining the hindsight parade, Matt also didn't specify what he meant by that. He kept it cryptic and vague on purpose to make himself look like Nostradamus. Until someone can show me something that was a red flag WHILE Hernandez was a pro football player, I can't say that New England needed to anything more than normal vetting of their own player.
His self picture showing off the Glock wasn't recent. That alone should've served as a warning to keep an eye on the criminal. Then follow that up with AH spending all of his away-from-Foxboro time with his hometown Bristol homies/thugs which his teammates were aware of. There's even a player quoted as saying, "No one hung out with him. No one." I seriously doubt a gun totin' punk who gets in fights at clubs, has killed up to 3 people, and allegedly shot another acquaintance in the face was able to keep his entire thug existence perfectly hidden from his team and organization like he's David f***ing Copperfield. Hernandez didn't just wake up the morning of the Odin murder and say today's a great day to be a gangster.
There were no reported red flags and that's not the same thing as no red flags. I'm not sure why the stories that are coming out now, like the Matt Light thing or the conversation between Brady & Tebow, somehow don't count. Is Matt Light lying? There were red flags as a pro. He may have passed his drug tests, but smoking weed was the least worrisome of the red flags and he continued with bad ones the whole time he was there. Again, why does Robert Kraft even admit that they need to make significant changes in their off field evaluation process?
What exactly do you believe to be a normal vetting process for a billion dollar organization making a $30M deal??? Sent from my HTC One GE using Tapatalk 4 Beta
