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A word of warning for next season....

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by inFINSible, Dec 2, 2019 at 3:14 PM.

  1. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    Just a thought I've been working over lately....
    This has been my favorite team in many years. These guys bonded through adversity. They've been fun to watch because nobody expected anything from them and they've just been able to go out and play loose fun football, let the chips fall where they may. A lot of teams come to play this team without their guard fully up and a few have been surprised.
    I hope that this will continue to hold true next season when expectations are higher but I don't think it can.
    It's something we've all seen before. A young team starts to gel towards the end of a season and then starts getting talk about being a sleeper in the offseason. The next season starts and the teams they play are more motivated and don't come in expecting and easy win. The beginning of the season doesn't go well because now teams are giving you their best shot and this team is still young and it's all new to them to be favorites and have expectations placed upon them. They lose, a lot, to start the season, grumbling and finger pointing may come along with failed expectations and the whole thing could fall apart real quickly.
    Or, the adversity brings out the best again and they get back to the Us against the world mentality after an early season swoon and really start to come together as a team again towards the end of the year. Maybe they make the playoffs but get eliminated quickly. They've shown some good stuff and some resiliency. But this time, no one is buying into it. The pundits aren't falling for it and the rest of the league isn't respecting it either. Expectations aren't as high anymore.
    So, the following year there is no longer playoff talk in August. No, media is blowing smoke up the asses daily. They are true sleepers now. This is when they can come out and dominate almost everyone they play because now they've got low expectations and high talent. A deadly combo that doesn't sneak through too often. By the time anyone realizes it, we've already transformed into a talented and confident team with young players who know what it takes to win and once THAT ball gets rolling, ANYTHING can happen. That's when we can actually start hoping for what we had dared not even contemplate all these years. That's when we could end up as champions.
    The best part of this scenario is, it's doable even if Brady doesn't retire.
     
  2. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    After reading it again, it occurs to me that I might even be a season to early with the following year.....I doubt we're going to get a lot of accolades this offseason. Even though we all see what's going on, the national media and the rest of,the league will still be blind to it.
    Hell, I might even be a season too late! Maybe they CAN make a sneak run next season.....I may have refantasize my entire fantasy.
     
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  3. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    There will be people here who think Miami will be a Super Bowl contender next year.
     
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  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The draft is critical to determine what we have next year....will a new QB be under center? Will the line be a genuine upgrade? Can we find someone to run the ball? Heck, can Howard and that secondary stay healthy? There are tons of questions that still need to be answered.

    This season is fun because nothing matters...we gamble way more than any other team and it is a lot of fun to watch. That punter TD, for example, is something that will stay with us for decades. But next season the expectations will change and fans will be looking for more than a few feel-good moments. Maybe it's acceptable to miss the playoffs next year but by 2021, I think the fan base will be out for blood if we're not a playoff team.

    Another thing to consider is how many of our current roster will still be around and buying in 100%? The "culture" is determined by the voices in the room and the amount of effort they give on the field. It may be excellent today but there's no guarantee that will continue down the line in this rebuild. We all hope it does but there's just no way to tell for sure.

    Basically, it's just too soon to tell what this franchise's future has in store...Grier could be the city's hero or the biggest loser in the history of sports. We just won't know until next December at a minimum if he's a visionary or a complete idiot.
     
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  5. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Certainly not you. They could win the Superbowl and I'm sure you would still be bummed.
     
  6. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    This is true. I'm assuming that this coaching staff is the real deal and can get similar results with different players. That's a big assumption.
     
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  7. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    There are people here every year who think Miami is going to the super bowl. And of course there's people that think they can't do anything right. They're all outliers.
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, if the Fins with the Super Bowl next season we'll all have to pitch in and get Exalted a strip-o-gram sent to his house...but we'll have to request a fat, ugly gal so he has something to complain about.
     
  9. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Solid thread.
     
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  10. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Haha! :up:
     
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  11. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I see it as the coaches job to make sure expectations are properly set and to hold players accountable.

    Look at Cleveland, the darlings of the offseason. It's brutally obvious that Kitchens is horrible and was a badly mistaken hire. He is the reason that team is going back toward "dumpster fire" status, and I don't really think lowered expectations will fix that.

    Turn around and look at - and I hate to say it, but ... - Buffalo. They are building what seems to be a sustainable team under a solid coaching staff. I am not convinced that Allen is the guy who can deliver regular playoff wins and a Super Bowl, but the team is solid.
     
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  12. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    Absolutely correct, but those fluctuations can happen with good coaching too. It's always on the coaches to know which buttons to push when different scenarios unfold. Do we have coaches that stay ahead of those scenarios or react to them? Staying ahead of them is optimal but reacting to them properly is probably what will remain most consistent since the former requires psychic abilities to a certain extent.
    I was going to throw Cleveland out as a warning in my original post but, I think our coaching staff is better than that and I think they fell into a few "superstar" traps. I hope after this tear down we don't go all in with huge money super star contracts, especially at diva positions, and we stick to the team concept like we have been.
    I think we're better than them coaching wise.
    I think Buffalo did it right too....but damn its hard as a fan to want to throw them out as an example of what we're trying to do.
     
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  13. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    If we are trying to kind of be New Englandish, then I doubt we spend a ton of money on diva positions, but more likely on OL/DL beef, secondary and depth. The Browns just got a bit too full of themselves and hired a guy who fed that belief instead of nipped it. However, it's important to realize their ownership is also a dumpster fire lead by a literal criminal fraudster, so I guess it's no surprise.

    I think we are too talent bereft to really have this happen this offseason though.
     
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  14. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I guarantee this team will never be a serious contender with Flores at the helm.

    Hes a man of incredibly low intelligence and he is going to have circles coached around him in important games.

    Not only that but all of our wins are just teams sleeping on us or as bad as we are.
     
  15. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    You can seriously guarantee that. ? Wow, impressive.
     
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  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Why are you so set against Flores? I've seen you say he disgusts you as a human being, and now you're knocking his intelligence. What proof or evidence do you have to give you these beliefs?
     
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  17. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good grief. Flores has many times more SB rings than Philbin and Gase combined. I can't imagine NE keeping someone around for so many years who was not producing, much less, letting them call defensive plays in a Superbowl game.
    He's a rookie HC and learning on the job. The team is playing better, games are fun to watch, Parker is developing when many of our genius fans were ready to cut him two years ago and, You're ready to fire the coach after 12 games?
     
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  18. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^^^
    This!!

    Get ready for two steps forward, one step back.

    I feel strongly that we will start out as a disappointment and heat up toward the middle of next season.

    You gotta think that next season will be virtually an entirely new team. Based purely on the amount of draft picks we have, I would fully expect us to have if not the youngest team in the NFL, one of the youngest teams. Just think about the amount of draft picks we have. Those guys are gonna get roster priority. This WILL have a ripple effect. There will be guys starting that are not ready to start and there will be guys starting solely based on draft position. It is going to take some time for these guys to settle in, AND it's gonna take some time for the coaches to figure out the strengths, weaknesses, and schemes these players shine in, AND there is going to be shuffling of the depth chart as 5th round picks will outshine 3rd round picks etc.

    We are also going to be bringing in a lot of free agents. In all likelihood, there will be scheme/role changes for some of these guys. This will take some settling in as well.

    Remember, this ISN'T Madden. You can't just take a guy that is 85 overall and put him on a new team, and he will be just as good. These guys need to gel. Some of these guys won't gel.

    You were right when you said there will be people on this board expecting Super Bowl contentions. There were people on this board thinking that THIS team was gonna win 10 games. You would think a team with decades of lackluster performances would have more skeptical fans....
     
  19. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Be careful. People here are going to tell you that you're not a real fan if you don't say your favorite team is going to win the Super Bowl every year.

    You would think after decades of getting kicked in the balls by this franchise, fans would be just a tad more tempered about their expectations.
     
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No people get sick of seeing people whine about wins because it affects draft status. Fans so invested in losing that wins bother them. I personally am not following the Dolphins because of who they might draft.
     
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  21. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Paragraphs are your friend. If you're going to take the time to write all that out, please make it easy to read.

    As for expectations, we'll have a rookie QB most likely, part of a HUGE rookie group that will need some time to get used to the NFL. An 8-8 record would be a successful season, but clear progress is the most important thing to see.
     
  22. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wow, fire him now and stick this keyboard genius in charge
     
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  23. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Hahahaha. OMG, there are times on this board that makes me just want to pull my hair out. Adam Gase's final days in Miami was the single most obvious example of Dolphins' fans. I cannot think of a guy more in over his head who has totally lost the locker room and was so stubborn. But, people on this board rose to his defense are were more or less willing to give him unlimited chances because "he is a genius." Gase, for reasons I cannot fathom, got a second HC job with the Jets which he had more cap space, better free agents, and overall more talent than the Dolphins have had in the last five seasons. Currently, he has one more win that a team on a full scale rebuild.

    I really think that to this very day, people on this board think that he was on the verge of something special in Miami.

    If they couldn't see it with Gase, I don't know how to help these people.
     
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  24. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Humor me. How have you come to the conclusion that he has "incredibly low intelligence?"
     
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  25. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    By listening to him talk obviously.

    Like I've said before he hasn't done anything to deserve praise yet. We all literally predicted 3-5 wins if Fitzpatrick started which is what has happened, so I dont see why meeting expectations based on the roster merit praise. The only reason it does is because we were initially so god awful, but that shouldnt have changed our expectations for the entire year.

    Anyway I've seen him look lost enough on the sideline and heard him speak enough to know he isnt going to have long term success as a coach unless we somehow nab a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning caliber QB to bail him out.
     
  26. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not sure how you have come to the conclusion that it is 'obvious' when you hear him talk - enlighten us with your wisdom please, we can't wait to hear your observations
     
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  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    That is not true. Most people I saw here predicted 0 to 2 wins.
     
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  28. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    This is a bunch of bull poop and what you said about nabbing a great QB pretty much applies to any NFL HC.
     
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  29. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Nah.

    I feel like people predicted that when it was assumed Rosen wins the job and the "tank" was on.

    I think most people here didn't want Fitzpatrick to start because he's just good enough to win 3-5 games, even with a gutted roster, and ruin any shot at a top 3 pick.
     
  30. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I'm not here to convince you. The results will speak for themselves. I'll still be here in 5 years when hes fired for toiling in mediocrity and being outcoached in X's and O's on the field by every half decent coach in the NFL.

    I advocated his hiring so I have no agenda. He is bad enough that he reversed my opinion on him which was originally glowing and post history will show it.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I’m sure the greatest coach of all time keeps dumb people around him for 15 years..

    What a load of nonsense.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2019 at 1:53 AM
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  32. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Many of his coaches have failed so maybe? Puppets and motivators are easier to control than brains so it wouldnt surprise me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2019 at 1:54 AM
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  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    There was an entire thread on 0-16. It was quite popular

    Most is different than all
     
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  34. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Whatever most fans predicted, Vegas predicted 4.5 wins for us this season:
    https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nfl-win/?y=2019&sa=nfl&t=win&o=t

    And historically the standard deviation between predicted wins by Vegas and actual wins is 2, meaning 2/3 of all results fall within +-2 of the predicted wins. So in our case you'd expect actual wins to be between 2.5 to 6.5 (so 3-6 wins) 67% of the time given the Vegas line. Only if we win out would Flores exceed that range, and that's probably not happening. So Flores is totally in line with Vegas expectations.

    So I definitely agree Flores hasn't exceeded any realistic expectations here. As to whether Flores will turn out to be a winner or not, I have no idea and am totally content to wait another 2 years to find out.
     
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  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Were those predictions prior to the second purge of starters before the season started?
     
  36. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Those are closing odds so right before the season began.
     
  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Whatever the prediction, I didn't expect the team to look as bad as it did through those first 4 games. After the first two, I for sure thought we'd be 0fer. So, in that respect, I'm actually very impressed with Flores, and am pretty surprised that he never lost the locker room.
     
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  38. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Dude, you really need to think about what you are saying.

    How are you going to judge a guy's coaching ability by his speaking ability? We didn't hire Flores to give a TED talk. We hired him to coach our team. If you get a chance, watch Bill Bellichick speak. The guy mumbles when he talks, says generic "coach speak," and really never answers questions. Watch Nick Saban speak. The guy looks miserable 24/7.

    I think that the average person really does not understand what a successful head coach does. Think of a head coach like a CEO. They find and work with their top executives to create a vision of their team and delegate down the food chain. Flores cannot be in every meeting. He has to have the right people (coaches) running the right meetings and properly implementing his vision. I would expect Flo to be more involved in defensive meetings than in offensive meetings. Part of delegating is knowing what you are not an expert in. I cannot stress enough how good of a job O'Shea has done. You really have to credit Flores for finding the right guy for the job. None of this has much of anything to do with public speaking.

    We had a guy who tried to do it all - Adam Gase. The guy was in over his head trying to do too much. He wanted to run the offense. He neglected the defense, and he found the wrong person for the job. Chad O'Shea and Matt Burke coached different sides of the ball, but that was not the biggest difference. O'Shea has been willing to adjust, change, and develop players. Burke was the walking definition of insanity. He kept trying the same things, but the results were always the same. Now, the average person might look and say, we are talking about finding the coordinators. But we are really talking about the head coach - the CEO. He has found the right guys for the job. Flores has been able to clearly articulate his vision to these people. Who really cares what his response is to an Omar Kelly question?

    I find it interesting that you think he looks lost on the sidelines. Again, I implore you think about Adam Gase. I have never seen a coach so lost in my life at any level. Remember when he would sit on the bench by himself journaling in the middle of the game? That speaks volumes. Who was Gase conveying information to? Nobody. The information was staying with him. Think CEOs. You have to convey information down the food chain. I have watched Flores get fired up on the sideline. Be quick and decisive about critical calls in the game (going for it on 4th down, going for 2, etc.)

    In all honesty, I really think you need to re-evaluate your assessment on Flores.
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nice post :)
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just try to understand the magnitude of the job Flores is doing.
     
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