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A Wake-up Call At LB?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by MaddMatt, Jan 16, 2010.

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  1. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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    http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_...pe=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=0&numgames=1

    I was looking up Cam Wake on PFF, and could not find him. I often had the same problem looking for him on the field when he should have been there.

    I finally did find him listed as the #4 (4-3) DE in the NFL. Although he only had 167 snaps, Cam had 7 sacks, 6 QB hits, 20 QB pressures, and 4 tackles. He did have an impressive first year with our team.

    Now, we are looking to seriously upgrade one of the worst group of LB's in the league. Where does Wake fit in? Will he improve vs the run and in coverage? Will he be able to take over for JP on the weak side? Will he be just a VG pass rush specialist?

    Should we consider moving him to the strong side, and JT over to the side he is better at? I know he can nail a TE from coming off the line but, can he cover one? Would he be as effective on the other side?

    Many questions. I do know that when he plays, he makes plays and a difference. We do need him on the field much more.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I like the odds of betting on his athleticism to learn how to drop and cover, but..

    I think the question remains with him...Is he strictly an attacker type of a football {a pass rush specialist player}, or can he diagnose, and attack.

    we dont have much to go on from a true backer perspective to see if he has overall game.
     
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  3. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Agreed. :up:
     
  4. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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    Many had thought that Wake would not be able to adapt to the NFL game coming from the CFL. He proved them wrong.

    I'm betting he does the same at LB. Seeing his pic, I am not about to disagree with him. LOL
     
  5. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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    We need to get him on the field more. Wake had 7 sacks in 167 snaps when the OL was looking for the pass rush. The sack leaders had 4-5 times as many snaps.

    What is Wake capable of if he plays a normal amount of plays?

    I watch every game at least twice. I can count on one hand the number of times the OL actually stopped him.
     
  6. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    The problem is that he is supposed to be a linebacker but I've never seen him drop back into coverage.

    Until then he is a 4-3, nickel or dime formation pass rushing DE.
     
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  7. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Well, before we can "get him on the field more" he has to prove that he can do more than rush the passer. If he can do that I'm all for it:tongue2:
     
  8. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    not to worry:
    Wake it the RealDeal,a keeper, he is the future
    the best all round athlete on the team.
    he is a Beast & a SackMaster wherever he is placed.
    our problem is not @ OLB, the weaknewss is @ ILB
    :theman: Cameron Wake
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think his freakish athleticism allowed that pass rushing ability to transition well, but once again, rushing the the qb is not necessarily associated with having an ability to diagnose...can he play on the perimeter, take on a blocker, hold his ground, shed it using his hands, with his eyes up, and make the tackle.

    Iam in love with half a player at this point...which is fine, I still want him on my team...His ability to play in a 3 man line when facing an offense that like's to spread you out will become more and more valuable.
     
  10. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    You may remember that Tony Sparano, after watching Wake seal the game against the Patriots, remarked that they needed to find ways to get Wake on the field more. Oddly enough, even after that pronouncement Wake only got on the field around 12 times a game, and as has been noted, most of these were as a DE rusher in our nickel and dime packages.

    Part of me wonders if our inability to get him on the field more often was an indictment on Paul Pasqueloni, and possibly contributed to his being let go. (That's just speculation on my part) Regardless, we need to find ways to get him on the field more ... and more importantly, be creative in how we use him to get to the quarterback.

    Wake's development is, I believe, one of the reasons we are looking for experienced LB coaches like James Butler, who took a similar player in James Harrison and molded him into the Defensive Player of the Year. Whomever we hire for DC will need to be able to make use of the talent we have there, and Wake is a big part of that.
     
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  11. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    The coaching staff must have seen something in his pass coverage skills (or lack therof) or his inabilty to play aginst the run.
    Otherwise he needed to be on the field more.
     
  12. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    This.

    He is a top notch QB hunter, but needs to work on rounding out his game. With the Speed and Agility he has, there should be no reason why his skills can't translate well in closing off the run and playing in some coverage. But unlike P.P., this is what a GOOD DC can do, put together some zone packages for an inexperienced guy like Wake to get active in the passing game, and strengthen his reads for the run game.
     
  13. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    I think you can mask Wake's deficiencies in pass-coverage and setting the edge against the run if you make him the WOLB replacement for Joey Porter. Remember Merrill Hodge comparing him to the Steelers' James Harrison? I think playing WOLB is in the not-so-distant future, especially if you can bring JT back to play strongside for another year and draft JT's eventual replacement.
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Love me some Cam Wake, he is a stone Kold passrushing DE and not a fully capable OLB with forwards and reverse gears, not even close actually.

    But Wake will have a chance to compete for a OLB slot this Cycle, imho he is not ready to win a starting role as of yet, but Wake has been written off before.
     
  15. Ross Ohlendorf

    Ross Ohlendorf Banned

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    he's the man at what? sitting on the bench 90% of the defensive snaps
    he's been out of college 5 years and still hasn't figured the rest out..
    he probably is never going to.
    he's a nice role player & deserving of a roster spot
    but that's it. nothing more.
    still need to find real olb's and move on from the 2 over the hill bums and the neverwillbe
     
  16. TheAnswer385

    TheAnswer385 Stay Low Run Free

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    Im a Pirates fan and all but why pick that as a user name?
     
  17. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Because I'm sure he received NFL caliber coaching in the CFL....he had like 39sacks in two years or something crazy like that, why on Earth would his coaches care about his linebacker skills? Answer...they wouldnt.

    You cant learn to play NFL football in the CFL. Period.
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    JT mentioned that Wake learned how to passrush in the CFL.

    Won't pullout the "James Harrison" kennard, I will say in one season Wake showed a heck of alot and as a NFL Rook he would have been in the top 10% of rookies in sacks behind Matthews and Orakpo.

    Not bad for a CFLer.
     
  19. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Wake will most likely always be a miss match covering a tight end or a running back. But I think if the right supporting cast (future upgrades at ILB, SOLB, FS, and maybe SS) plus a good defensive scheme from the new defensive coordinator the impact of his flaws in pass coverage can be diminished, Wake can start and succeed. Look at how New England, a Superbowl caliber defense, was able to play with Willie McGinest. But I can also understand him only playing part-time last year, with the severe absense of adequate coverage skills accross the board.
     
  20. eric

    eric New Member

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    Ill be shocked and disapointed if atleast one of these two scenarios does not play out this off season.

    1. he becomes porter's replacement and porter is traded.
    maybe they let wake ride the pine so porter could get enough snaps to rack up impressive enough numbers to raise his trade value.

    2. wake gets traded to another team for draft picks or maybe one or more players our coaches wanted.

    he is a 4-3 end. we run a 3-4. if he cant make it at LB we need to trade him to somebody who can use him, as long as we get something we immediately need in return.

    i dont mind him staying around and rushing on packages as long as his production is worth it. but we already have a lot of part time players. small role guys. we need people smart enough and talented enough to play and produce full time. if our roster is full of small role players then theres a problem with the people making our roster decisions.

    rosters are limited. you can only be half right on so many players. we need more players that can carry more load and more responsiblity.
     
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  21. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    He would be a starter as a weakside DE for a number of 4-3 teams. If he does not improve as a OLB and we are not happy with him playing in dime and nickels(why not?) then maybe we do end up trading him for a good pick or player.
     
  22. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Wake is what he is right now. He's a college DE making the transition to OLB in the 3-4 scheme. It's not hopeless that he will develop more, but how long do we wait for that ?? We have pressing needs at ILB, FS and NT (not in any order), unless we dump either JT or Peezy. If we dump either one, given Porter's cap number, age and lack of production this past season, (he most likely will be the odd man out) then you have to add OLB to the need list at the top. A lot will be known about the direction that Ireland is going when it comes time for FA. Wake made great strides this season. If he can continue that, he'll be quite a find, but only time will tell us that. While JT and JP had poor seasons overall, the middle of the field was the real issue with this D. Those guys were pressed to make plays that the ILBers should have made and that affected how aggressive they were in pass rushing situations... Wake did just fine for us and moving on from him now isn't productive. I am concerned with the interior of the D moreso than the edge players, at this time though...
     
  23. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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    Agreed on the ILB, they were as bad as it gets in the NFL. Then Ferg went down, and it got worse.

    Although I agree on Porter, I cannot on JT. I thought he played very well, all things considered. I expect Porter gone, and hope we keep JT for another year. I believe he would be a big help to Wake.

    I see us addressing NT in FA, there are five UFA's who are solutions. We may take at shot at Dansby at ILB, and maybe at Banta-Cain at OLB.

    That would take a lot of pressure off the draft.
     
  24. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    I pulled out the James Harrison reference because of how Merrill Hodge described the two players prior to the season. Both are very quick off the edge at the snap of the ball; both have low centers of gravity and run the arc in a similar fashion.

    IMO, I think our courting of Keith Butler may have been based partly, or even mostly, on the development of Wake. I recall one of Sparano's pressers saying that if they had to start Wake for a game, it would've been at WOLB in place of Porter and Anderson (assuming they'd both been hurt or some such). Playing WOLB in our defense doesn't require the amount of forward and reverse play, dropping in coverage, disengaging from double-teams, etc. that the strongside requires.

    We know Wake can get to the passer, that's a fact. I maintain they could've tried to get the most out of Wake on the weakside where he's matched up 1-on-1 with a LT or with a back, and at the most, with a LT getting help from a back - I'd reckon with practice and repition over time, Wake could be a pretty good WOLB for us - not saying in 2010, but I wouldn't be surprised if he saw some action there. After all, it took James Harrison three separate stints with the Steelers mixed with one on the Ravens before he became one of the best pass-rushers in the league. Now, is Wake on that same learning curve? We don't know, but I think the front office was courting a guy like Butler to find out, and find out sooner rather than later.
     
  25. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    for 2010: OLB not a problem
    Wake is the RealDeal, the next JT
    on defense we need: ILB, NT & maybe a FS
    on offense we need: to find in the draft a WR w/PlayMaker potential & a possible TE
    not much need, most the holes are filled
     
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I've been saying that for months now LuG, a couple of teams need a ready to produce passrusher, the Texans, the Eagles come to mind, maybe the Giants or Bucs as well.


    Roninfin4 wrote:

    To me the difference between the two is Wake played 40 games in the CFL that does give him a head start over Harrison on the learning curve.

    Say what one will about the CFL but 40 games is 40 games and some skills like recognition of cut blocks and how to split double teams transfer to the NFL.

    That is a part of the reason why I'd like them to take a run at Wake's BC Lions teammate Ricky Foley, a Lb and special teams ace who was a decathelete in College.
     
  27. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    How is OLB not a problem for 2010? Even if Wake plays well against the run, we still don't have a strongside LB or one that could play in coverage. Although JT isn't terrible at that, if he comes back.
     
  28. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    got any more info on Ricky Foley @ LB & ST's ?
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ricky Foley

    6'2 243

    12 sacks in 09:

    http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/618

    Brendan Ayanbadeyo who made pro bowls as a Special Teamer, and was an ex Dolphin, got his start in the CFL.
     
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  30. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    40 games is 40 games, but Harrison also was with the Steelers practice squad three different times and on the Ravens for a brief time as well. I think that getting experience at the NFL level, even if only in practice for that amount of time gives him an edge.

    I think we need to be patient with Wake, IMO, 2011 should be the target year to figure out whether or not he's a starting WOLB or merely a nickel and dime pass-rusher. I think that if we had landed Butler, Butler may have been able to help expedite that process.
     
  31. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    Agreed on the above, With the majority of NFL teams turning to the 3-4 plus the natural scarcity of 3-4 OLB, I'd hope the Front Office can flip Wake for a 3rd thru 5th rounder.
     
  32. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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    The majority of teams, 20 or more I believe, are in a 4-3.

    In today's pass happy league, a VG pass rusher is wanted by all. I include myself and the Phins. In no way do I even consider that trade.
     
  33. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    My thoughts exactly. He is a great 4-3 end that we got for free. Use him to attack the QB or get some free groceries for him.
     
  34. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    He has shown he can bring money on the market if not used here. Hopefully we put him to good use.
     
  35. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    when wake was signed my initial reaction was that he would spell porter at the WOLB spot just to develop him at the nfl level
    im with you and a little confused why that never happened
    all of that was before the matt roth fiasco of course
    seems they just fell in love with wake as a situational pass rusher from a three point stance
    i sure hope we didnt stunt his growth making him a one dimensional player
    agree butler would have been huge for such a talent like cameron wake
     
  36. MrEd

    MrEd New Member

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    Dag, I've been waiting for someone with knowledge to correct the OPer. Cam Wake had 5.5 sacks, not 7. And he didn't play 4-3 DE, he played 3-4 SOLB. They just blitzed him whenever he was in. But yeah, I believe he is being groomed to be our next WOLB in the James Harrison mold. And we do need another SOLB to start opposite Wake (who I believe will replace Porter at WOLB).

    Quentin MOses will probably be a candidate to compete with whoever they bring in to start at SOLB and I also believe they will bring JT back as a backup. Oh, and Charlie Anderson is a keeper as a back up OLB/ILB/STs player.
     
  37. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    wake didnt pick up his hand this season so we really did use him like a 4-3 de or situational pass rusher
    he put his hand down and was told to beat the opposing RT and get to the QB he did a great job getting underneath the protection with his quickness
    wake was an obvious liability in coverage

    welcome to the site
     

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