A serious decussion about Pat White in the NFL

Before I actually think about this and post: Pat White does have a strong arm.

Continual Edit:

His completion percentage is not high for college.

Higher than Chad Henne's in each of their sophomore, junior, and senior years.

His yards per pass attempt is not high for college.

Higher than Chad Henne's in each of their freshman, sophomore, and junior years. Only 0.2 YPA lower in their senior years.

I think the question Will Pat White be a good Wildcat QB?
I fully believe now we wasted a 2nd rounder. He isn't quick or fast enough to be a impact player in the Wildcat. Its not like he has the body type of a Runningback he wont be able to take shots.

He could end up being a decent backup but to give up a second rounder :pity:

"2k5 wrote:

Before I actually think about this and post: Pat White does have a strong arm.

Compared to who? Chad Pennington?

Is that your opinion or do you have any proof?

And before you use one of his highlights, please remember the John Beck YouTube video that had Dolphin convinced that he had a strong arm because he threw a prayer after taking 4 running steps forward.

i won't bash PW yet ... he has a long way to go to be sure, and the staff is intent on working him in slowly ... unfortunately for him, i don't think we will really see anything until next year. by the end of next TC we will know if he was a mistake or not.

now, if you want to debate whether he was a mistake at 2a ... then that is a fair argument - and most would likely agree that he was. conversely, this FO does a good job in their evaluations of players and their potential.

i think PW is just overwhelmed at this point ... most especially since he has probably never played in a pro-style offense, and has much to learn for a guy that has basically played sandlot for his whole career. i think if you look at where he is now, and come back and compare where he is at the end of the season, there will be a marked improvement ... unfortunately, he isn't helping us win games right now.

"LikeUntoGod wrote:

Compared to who? Chad Pennington?

Is that your opinion or do you have any proof?

And before you use one of his highlights, please remember the John Beck YouTube video that had Dolphin convinced that he had a strong arm because he threw a prayer after taking 4 running steps forward.

Geez, go stroke his bicep, there's your proof.

This whole thread is you baiting people into a pointless argument. You want people to look up stats and post youtube videos to change your mind about a player, is that the point of the thread? Please save it for the other site.

"LikeUntoGod wrote:

Compared to who? Chad Pennington?

Is that your opinion or do you have any proof?

And before you use one of his highlights, please remember the John Beck YouTube video that had Dolphin convinced that he had a strong arm because he threw a prayer after taking 4 running steps forward.

He compared White to Chad Henne and said so in his post plus backed it up with the very stats you requested. Whats the problem? Why bring JB into it, he's history.:lol:

Want more proof our FO drafted him and call him a QB. That stat is good enough for me at this time.:up:

Arm looked pretty strong when he wayyyyyy overthrew Ginn. I think we will get good use out of him. Its just going to take some time for his brain to slow down.

Wasn't really in favor of the pick, drafting situational players that high is for teams that are already loaded with talent. It's a luxury pick, when we don't have the luxury......

Having said that......if you don't think this kid has talent then you didn't follow much of his career. He is electrifying in the open field. In space he's potentially the most dangerous player on this team.

It's up to the Miami Dolphins to make use of him......if I have any disappointment so far, it's that I see them wasting his talent by not trying to use him in an all purpose manner.

Those highlight reels you spoke of? Go watch some of them and tell me why he isn't out there returning kicks and punts when we have basically no one that can step forward in that role?

Watch him in the open field and tell me why he's out there handing the ball off instead of being sent out for a pass or used on a reverse?

If this pick fails, it won't be because of a lack of talent

He is to small to be an effective nfl QB.

"Uncle Rico wrote:

Geez, go stroke his bicep, there's your proof.

This whole thread is you baiting people into a pointless argument. You want people to look up stats and post youtube videos to change your mind about a player, is that the point of the thread? Please save it for the other site.

or atleast save it for the other thread you started that bashes pat white.seriously? we need five threads of you bashing white with no real arguments?

you dont like his college carreer? 4 yr starter,four yr bowl champion..thats pretty impressive to me even if only the fact that no other college qb has done that.

he only threw for 1800 yrds his senior season but every yr he got better.he only threw 800 yrs his freshman yr so he was much improved from start to finish and thats with recievers alot of us never even heard of in as you called it a spread option offense..he was also running for a good amount of yards(i'll take 200 yrds passing if he also runs for 100 per game).

save the he's too small talk for guys like zach thomas and wes welker.

doesnt have a strong arm? i watched him overthrow ted ginn without taking four steps so it's strong enough for me.

it's a good thing our coaching staff didn't pick him up to only be a passing qb.we picked him because he is a playmaker and that is something we lack enough of.

"pumpdogs wrote:

He is to small to be an effective nfl QB.

Pat White, 6 ft, 190 lbs

Drew Brees, 6 ft, 209 lbs

I guess Pat White is a couple cheeseburgers away...

"jetssuck wrote:

Wasn't really in favor of the pick, drafting situational players that high is for teams that are already loaded with talent. It's a luxury pick, when we don't have the luxury......

That's been my bitch all along. No way we should've used that pick on him. Way too high/early. We had/have other more glaring needs IMHO.

As to whether or not he's a bust, it's way too early to talking about that IMO. Only time will tell. But, if I had to predict, I'd say yeah...he probably won't make the transition to the NFL. Not as a conventional QB at any rate.

Glad we figured out he was a bust after 6 snaps in the NFL. I think people are way too quick to judge sometimes.

"The G Man wrote:

That's been my bitch all along. No way we should've used that pick on him. Way too high/early. We had/have other more glaring needs IMHO.

As to whether or not he's a bust, it's way too early to talking about that IMO. Only time will tell. But, if I had to predict, I'd say yeah...he probably won't make the transition to the NFL. Not as a conventional QB at any rate.

i agree. i wasn't fond of where he was picked either but can't label him a bust yet when he has only attempted one pass in a reg season game. thats one thing that confuses me about the playcalling of late.we drafted this guy due to his abilitly to pass the ball effectively in the spread/wildcat yet we are sending in plays that call for ted ginn to pass it? why pick him if all your gonna do is have him hand the ball off and have your reciever throwing.you dont pick a punter and have him line up as a mlb just because he's not good at mlb..you pick the punter and use him as a punter.

You don't overthrow Ginn by 10-15 yards unless you have a strong arm. Period. Also the throw was right on target....just a little too far :lol:

"LikeUntoGod wrote:

Compared to who? Chad Pennington?

Is that your opinion or do you have any proof?

And before you use one of his highlights, please remember the John Beck YouTube video that had Dolphin convinced that he had a strong arm because he threw a prayer after taking 4 running steps forward.

Was working on finding more stuff that you might consider proof, which I said in my post, but the site went down.

YouTube - Pat White Drafted by the Miami Dolphins

Mike Mayock quotes:

“He has as live an arm as anybody you wanna see”
“Has a big arm”
“Pat white’s got a bigger arm than people wanna give him credit for”
“Tremendous accuracy and strength”

He's also second in completion percentage in WVU history by completing 64.6% of his passes.

People forget that Pat White is a developmental prospect, but also a playmaker, which is why we're trying to get the ball in his hands. Just give him some time, I'm sure he'll make some plays for us this year if we keep trying.

The obvious guess is Pat White was brought in to run the spread offense ( that is a pretty generic term now, but think Florida with the Zone Read Option play).

If you watch the Colts game again, you can see the Dolphins run that play with Pat White in the shotgun with RB and RW next to him in the backfield, if my memory servers me right. Pat White reads the DE and hands the ball to RB and RB takes the ball up the gut ( notice you don't have to run up the middle to be a spread QB, like you suggest you have to in the wildcat ). That play got blown up because the Colts ran a LB blitz and the O line failed to pick it up. So the play was for little to no gain.

I can definitely see why some are against the pick.

Overall though, the Front Office has made great decisions so if they get this one wrong, every FO gets it wrong from time to time, I am okay with that. Because they get the majority of the picks correct, unlike the previous string of FO/GM failures we have had in the recent past. So I can relax and enjoy the ride because I trust who is driving the cart/shopping for the groceries so to speak. :lol:

How long did it take to figure out that Jason Allen was not going to make it?

IMO, Pat White would be better used as the QB in the "Fullhouse" formation which we ran very well last week and during the preseason.

Think of it as a reverse Wishbone using 3 running backs.

Normally there is not a QB running option but I can see it happening or on a Play Action roll out.

"LikeUntoGod wrote:

What do you call a bust? If you look where he was drafted at at the position he was drafted at he is going to be a bust. I have little doubt about it. I've never had any doubt about it. If you can show me a stat or any proof that he has a college game that can be brought into the NFL then please show me. (with facts my mind/thoughts can be changed)

I'm not in the least impressed with his college game.

He has never passed for over 2,000 yards in college.

His completion percentage is not high for college.

His yards per pass attempt is not high for college.

He does not have a strong arm.

He played in a spread option college system.

He is not only short but small for a QB and/or a NFL player at any position.

His chances of being a pure passing QB is small.

His chances of being a Wildcat "QB" is even smaller. A Wildcat "QB" has to be able to run the football between the tackles. Pat White will never be able to do that.

I use the ESPN stats. I look under "stats" then "passing" and also under "teams" and "stats".

http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/pla yer/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt/year/2 008

I see no reason at all that he can play in the NFL. Please back up any different argument you have with some facts and not just your feelings.

Thanks so much.

Totally agree. A waste of a 2nd rounder.

"LikeUntoGod wrote:

Compared to who? Chad Pennington?

Is that your opinion or do you have any proof?

And before you use one of his highlights, please remember the John Beck YouTube video that had Dolphin convinced that he had a strong arm because he threw a prayer after taking 4 running steps forward.

You say he does not have a strong arm. Is this your opinion or do you have any proof?

My Masters is in Political Science and I love debating and I really feel that if you prove to be that I am wrong, you can change my mind.

On another Dolphin Fan site I've been debating the merits of Pat White. After I mentioned that he could be a good QB running the Fullhouse formation, I was given this reply:

"That works. He can also be a passing quarterback out of a shotgun set like he's been throughout his college career. I also think he didn't look to bad taking snaps under center in the pre-season but some, like yourself, may disagree with me."

This gentleman was honest and told me that he had not been watching football for a long time (I really respected him saying that). He is a solid Dolphin fan and does not stoop to name calling but carefully lays out the points he is making. I like this guy and I'm not trying to razz him at all and he did make me think. Maybe I should check all the facts.

However he does feel strongly that I am wrong about Pat White and among other interesting arguments told me to check out four games of his.

2007: Louisville and Cincinnati.
2008: U of South Florida and North Carolina in the "Bank of America Bowl".

So as to the Pat White running the shotgun etc I had this reply:

If we did not have Chad Henne I would agree. But we do have Chad Henne who is not a rookie and has a stronger arm and is a better passing QB. And he did not look good taking snaps from center so this seems like the wrong time for him to be learning.

Oddly, no one has a problem with Pat White coming in for 4 plays and passing on one, but Chad Henne coming in on 3rd down to run one of a couple of preplanned shotgun plays is all wrong. A bad game for me being a Gator fan but I still have a copy of Chad Henne throwing for 373 yards on the Gators two years ago in a 41-35 win. Not the USF, but the U of Fla.

I will be honest, I never watched Pat White in college because I saw no reason for it. Chase Daniel and Dennis Dixon seemed like better run/pass spread option QBs but who cares since we would never draft one of them.

I could be very wrong about him, maybe he did have these great games I was told about. Just what teams does West Virginia play being in the Big East?

Just for the heck of it I decided to see how well Pat White did last year in their Bowl Game or his other good games. The way the ESPN.com site I use works is I went to "college football", "scores", "2008" and this being the 4th week the page that came up (sorting by top 25 teams) had in the top left hand corner, West Virginia vs Colorado. Which (and I did not know this) West Virginia lost, 14-17.

Pat White was 10-14 for 31 yards for a 3.1 yards per completion(yards per pass attempt would be even lower).

Now they did run the ball well but still lost.

West Virginia Rushing
CARYDSAVGTDLG
P. White191487.8244
N. Devine261335.1019
J. Sanders7304.3012
Team523116.0244

After this I had to go by "Big East" teams to find them for a while. I wondered what other national power houses did they play.

They best Villanova
They lose to East Carolina (Pat White, 11 for 18 for 72 yards)
They beat Marshall.
They beat Rutgers
They beat Syracuse
They beat Auburn
They beat Connecticut
They lost to Cincinnati (in OT)
They beat Louisville
They lost to Pittsburgh
They "sneak past" South Florida (so the story says) Pat White was 14 for 23 for 141 yards (is this the big game you mentioned)
And then Pat White finally throws for over 220 yards in a game(332) in a win over North Carolina 31-30 in the "Bank of America Bowl"..........

My eyes have been opened. I have to admit that I was totally wrong about Pat White and I've been giving him way too much credit.

2007:

West Virginia's game against Louisville was a 31-30 loss. Pat White was 16 out of 25 for 181 yards and two touchdowns. Brian Brohm was 27 out of 46 for 345 yards.

West Virginia's game against Cincinnati was a 28-23 win. Pat White was 13 out of 19 for 140 yards and one interception.

Maybe we just have a misunderstanding of what a "big game" is.

But now I really really do not understand this pick. If Pat White was 6'1" and 230 pounds and could run between the tackles he might be a "Wildcat QB". As is, he is a WR who can take a snap from center or go into motion and throw the ball off a reverse.

Bill Parchells has always had a smaller draft board then most GMs/Coaches. he does not care how well you did in college, he cares how well you will do in the NFL. He plays the odds. He almost never ever drafts a player under a certain size for certain positions.

No 6'1" OLBs or 6'2" defensive lineman. No small WRs or a offensive lineman under 6'4" 310 pounds. He looks carefully at height and weight and almost never drafts anyone under the sizes he thinks a player must be to play in the NFL.

He would have never drafted Zack Thomas. Or anyone that Cam Cameron did.

This is why I still strongly feel that Pat White was not his pick.
"A journey of a thousand miles starts with my boot being kicked up your fat azz if you do not start moving" Bill Parcell's version of Chairman Mao's famous quote

I will be honest, I never watched Pat White in college

So how can you have a rational opinion on his abilities as a player? IMO, you cannot and any hope for a meaningful debate begins and ends right there.

Oh, you have statistics, you say?

Like Mark Twain, among others, said, "There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

My Masters is in Political Science and I love debating and I really feel that if you prove to be that I am wrong, you can change my mind.

Dude, "prove to be that I am wrong"?...Master's huh...I'm not even sure "Bill Parchells" would have a shot...

Decussion, really? Now you're just baiting me out of spite...

BTW- Do you know where I can get one? I've got a feeling I'm gonna need one.:chuckle: