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A Revelation on Rosen?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jul 30, 2019.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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  2. Miamiforlife

    Miamiforlife Active Member

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    Looks like we wasted a valuable second pick on a backup quarterback?
    Could of been a good lineman.
    Worries me about our scouts?
    We’re they the only ones who didn’t know Rosen is not good?
    It seemed no other teams wanted him?
    And we gave up a second?
    My first bad feeling about the new regime?
     
  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Every pick is a gamble and a possible franchise QB is worth far more than a good lineman. With all the rebuilding that needed doing, it was worth a shot.

    We're only in week 1 of training camp. Time will tell if Rosen can grow in all the necessary areas. Even if he doesn't, Miami has been amassing picks. Another QB in 2020 or 2021 is still on the books.

    In this game you take have to take gambles. Nothing wrong with the pick and too soon to call it a bust.
     
  4. TheOne

    TheOne Active Member

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    If he turns out to be a good QB it's a genius move if he turns out to be a bust it's a bad move. Risk needed to be done
     
  5. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    I think if Rosen gets extended playing time in the Pre Season it's going to make those games a lot more interesting to watch!
     
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  6. Miamiforlife

    Miamiforlife Active Member

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    All good points. But he is inevitably getting smoked by a career backup qb.
    I will put my patient panties on and wait longer to judge. But he looks like chit so far for a second year qb. Do you think a potential stud qb gets beat out by fitz?
    And if he turns out to be real bad? Then I am disappointed my team (which seemed like the only team that even wanted him?) took him. With a second even? I was and am a big fan of Rosen’s.
    But I don’t sugar coat. I calls it as I sees it. He looks rough so far?
     
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  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It’s a journey, he’s 22 years old, I’m gonna give him some room to breathe and improve..

    Whatever he does wouldn't keep me from diving into the QB class next year, so it’s all good..
     
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  8. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    After Day 1 of training camp he looks horrible and is a bust. Too funny.
     
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  9. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Wake me when he's not late on his outs...
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree I drink your milkshake! Club Member

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    A career backup runner fooled two teams to give him starter money
     
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  11. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I’m OK with the revelation . It helps explains his difficulties last year, and gives pointers as to how coaching can fix it. Anyone who though we were getting a surefire HoFer for a late second round pick, well I have a list of bridges I wish to sell to you.
     
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  12. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I was iffy on picking him up... but its a chance they took, i liked him in UCLA, he had a gamer personality sort of like Baker.. that swagger he had in UCLA is gone, he doesnt have that confidence anymore.

    Still early to tell but if he doesnt win the job next year then i think thats when its safe to say hes a bust..


    Hes guaranteed to start at some point this upcoming season... Ryan Fitzpatrick is good for 4 games and then he becomes a turnover machine.. we have all seen Ryans career and this pattern is inevitible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
  13. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How many 'fans' were complaining when we didn't draft other QB's to challenge RT and now are complaining that he's a bust because he's learning something new - he's not the only QB that doesn't identify the LB, as other teams also use the center to do this. Agree with Galant that we are a week in and he's a good month or 2 behind a very intelligent QB with vastly more experience than him - he's 22, so lets put down the pitchforks before we run him out of town as a bust after 1 week of training camp. It was a low 2nd round pick that we picked up through clever trading down by the FO in preparation for 2020 (whilst picking up another pick), so very low risk & low cost - there's probably back-up QB's that earn way more than Rosen.
     
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  14. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    All that I've read regarding Rosen's practice at Miami mimics what we could all see in his games at Arizona, and why there was no hesitation to replace him.
     
  15. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Rosen is 22 years old. He has as much physical ability as almost any QB that I've seen in the last 20 years, and he's highly intelligent. And people are saying he's done because he hasn't been coached as well at UCLA and with the Cardinals as he should have been?

    People have an axe to grind.
     
  16. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    I am going to go with Travis on this one. He’s at camp and is watching Rosen first hand. If he is saying that Rosen has serious accuracy issues, among other things, I believe him. I want to give Rosen the benefit of the doubt, but he hasn’t really shown he deserves it. Right now he can’t even hold Fitzpatrick’s jock, so until he changes his ways and starts putting in the extra work I am off team Rosen.
     
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  17. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Time and patience.

    If this wasn't Rosen (a guy many people have found reasons to dislike over the last two years), but a random other 22 year old rookie QB, would people be freaking out that he doesn't look as good as a QB who's started 126 games in the NFL and is in the top 50 all time in passing yards?

    In the first week of training camp with a new coaching staff? And if I'm counting right, I think Rosen's 5th different offensive coordinator in the past four years? Relax and let him grow.
     
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  18. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    I am patient when it come to learning the system and playbook. However, I see warning signs when the guy can’t make accurate throws against air. With his so-called athleticism he should be able to make those fundamental uncontested throws with ease. He’s not and it’s a legit reason to be concerned. I also question his mental toughness. I don’t think he really wants it. I would demote him to 3rd string and see if he responds. Maybe it will light a fire under his backside and he will start playing like we all think he should.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
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  19. IdrA

    IdrA Rebuilding for Eternity.

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    Nobody gives picks away like the Miami Dolphins. It should be our motto.

    All the better tackles and guards were lifted before we would have even picked. But there was some solid Ends to be had, which we need. Jachai Polite 45 tckles 11 sacks 6 FF for UFL last year... and now he's a Jet. I don't sugar coat either. A wasted pick is a wasted shot at filling holes.
     
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  20. thetylernator

    thetylernator You're as cold as ice, Officer Friendly.

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  21. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's a lot he can learn from Fitz. I'm not worried unless he's totally incapable of learning anything new, which I don't believe is the case.
     
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  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Maannnn...come on. Every draft pick is a gamble. #1 overalls bust. 2nd rubbers don't always pan out. The time finally made a good move on a QB prospect. Even if Rosen doesn't end up working, it doesn't mean that the decision was a bad one. It just means it didn't work out. Making the right decision doesn't always mean that the effort will be successful.
     
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  23. Miamiforlife

    Miamiforlife Active Member

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    I bet if they put a 1 in front of the 3, Rosen would play better?
     
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  24. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    He'd look better! But that's sacred ground.
     
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  25. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Look at what Rosen has been asked to do. He just played his rookie season in which he didnt even start the season the first 3 games, and the coach got fired after only one season. He had an erratic playbook last season, their coordinator couldnt figure anything out. And now hes coming in here after the cards gave up on a rookie after one season, and learning a whole new playbook here in Miami.

    Its a lot to ask for in him, we have to treat him like a rookie. I am not sure there are many examples of a guy thats been through what hes gone through and had success afterwards..
     
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  26. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I've been making that same point for months. Plus, even in his second year, he's younger than a lot of guys were as rookies. (Wentz, Carr, Trubisky, and Mayfield are examples of guys who were 23 or 24 as rookies recently). We keep seeing people say that if he doesn't put up Pro Bowl quality numbers this season, then we have to move on from him. Its insane.
     
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  27. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Rosen needs to prove THIS season that he's our QB of the future because we have a rare opportunity in 2020 to draft a QB high given our significant draft capital and the likelihood we'll have a bad record with mediocre QB play. You can't look at 2019 as just another year for this franchise. This franchise may have a rare opportunity in 2020 and you have to look at Rosen in that context. If Rosen doesn't prove in 2019 that he's our solution at QB, then you can keep him as a backup but you definitely place your bets on a high draft pick in 2020.

    Also, adjusted passer ratings of starting QB's show that performance in year 2 tends to be close to that QB's average. Note that the plot below deals with "years starting" and not "years in the league". All ratings are adjusted to 2016 (I generated this 2 years ago) where league average was 89.3. Important point is that statistically speaking "it's still year 2" isn't a good excuse for starting QB's.
    [​IMG]
     
  28. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Nah, it's not insane at all if we are in position to take an elite QB in the draft.

    He was highly touted as a prospect and hes not a rookie. No. His situation wasn't great, but not all salvage projects work. If he doesnt show hes an elite QB this year then bye. We cannot get stuck in Tannehill 2.0 making excuse after excuse while the product remains middling to ****. Show up or show out.
     
  29. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    That's your choice. I'm not a bottom line person. For me, everything is subjective, and most things take time.
     
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  30. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Well he has the personality of a Tannehill, that already comes off as bad to me.. too passive, we dont need another game manager, we need a leader whos voice comes out strong.

    You see all the top quarterbacks in the NFL, and they all got that respect with their teams.. even new guys like Mahomes and Mayfield have already developed that leadership and theyre in season 2 and 3.., Mayfield has already tore up on his receivers this training camp for not running back to the huddle and other miscues..

    That personality is part of being a leader, and it can not be faked, it has to be authentic. The guys need to see youre a different kind of quarterback first, and then they rally behind you. Because when Tannehill and guys like Derek Carr have tried it, their guys have turned on them.. Derek Carr always tried to have an instagram moment last year, with some prewritten rah rah chants, and thhe guys would be like yea whatever, and they lose by 3 touchdowns..
     
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  31. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Of course it's subjective - and I don't necessarily need a Pro Bowl berth, but he needs to prove himself beyond doubt. For instance, if he has an iffy first half but lights it up in the second half? That's acceptable. But demanding anything less than a clear progression with obvious and undeniable success is just asking to get suckered in by fleeting promises.

    Already the same excuses for THill are being thrown up. Bad coaching, bad OLine, etc. No, he's got to figure it out or we need to take Tua/Jake or whomever.
     
  32. Miamiforlife

    Miamiforlife Active Member

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    It would be such a blessing if Rosen does become the man. Then we can draft other top talent with our first pick in 2020. If he starts playing good with all the draft picks next year. We could be real good by next year. But if he doesn’t pan out. Ugh. It’s back to the drawing board and bye bye first pick to another lotto ticket. It’s already been way to long that we have been hot garbage. So please Rosen. Beat the man and become the man.
     
  33. IdrA

    IdrA Rebuilding for Eternity.

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    Ok, keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Also remind yourself of that when Polite racks sacks on whomever our QB may be for years to come.

    I'm pretty sick of watching the Dolphins trade picks to rummage through other team's trash myself. Picks tend to work out 0% of the time when you don't have them.

    From Cards perspective... you don't just give up on a rookie top 10 pick QB after one season even if it was a poor season, unless you see a lot of things wrong there. We can keep pretending other organizations are failures at evaluating talent or look unto ourselves.

    I didn't ever think Rosen was a great prospect, neither did Zona or any other team, so why not fill one of our many other positional holes, and draft a QB next season? I guess that just makes too much sense? For all intents and purposes this is a throw away season anyway. Which is another problem with the Dolphins... always looking for a quick fix... Just keep building you fools! Fortunately, we've plugged a lot of holes, but we could have plugged even more while we wait for the QB we actually WANT to come around.
     
  34. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I guess the now we need to get rid of Fitz now. IT'S T HE 1ST WEEK OF TRAINING CAMP. GUYS ARE GOING TO BE RUSTY.

    From PFT:
    Throughout his time in the league, Dolphins quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick has performed well enough to raise expectations that he inevitably failed to sustain, reducing expectations to a point where he would unexpectedly exceed them. Over and over again.

    It’s already happening in Miami. As noted by Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald, Fitzpatrick has followed the proclamation by coach Brian Flores that the veteran has become the clear leader in the quarterback competition with a couple of very bad practices, on Wednesday and on Thursday. Per Salguero, Josh Rosen performed better than Fitzpatrick on each day.

    Fitzpatrick’s consistent inconsistency should definitely be a factor in the final assessment as to whether he or Rosen should win the starting job. And if Fitzpatrick wins the job, Rosen needs to be ready, because it will be just a matter of time before Fitzpatrick’s on-field effort gives Rosen a chance to play.
     
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  35. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It's way too early for there to be a "Team Rosen" honestly. Just remember that he was ultra-cheap and 100% expendable- it's not really a team loss if he doesn't develop since all we gave was a late 2nd round pick and a future 5th (we picked up both in trades/comp...making the true cost zero).

    If he develops then it was the steal of the century. If he's a bust then we lost nothing. This is really a no-lose situation and people need to get off this "bust talk". Rosen should be on the roster the next 2-3 years and he'll have plenty of time to show his worth.
     
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  36. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    LOL, Check beneath my avatar :up:

    I've been all in on Rosen for almost four years now. I couldn't be more excited.
     
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  37. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Active Member

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    Have I slipped into a coma and come out the other side with us weeks into the season or are we still in training camp? Everybody is saying what if he plays like this or can't do that? We're in training camp, everybody will have highs and lows. The coaching staff right this second don't give a hoot about what does his play mean for a draft that's a year away, they care about what his play means come September. If he's the best we currently have then he'll play, if not then he won't. I don't care who selected him in what round, the coaches focus has to be on who gives the Miami Dolphins the best chance to win each game.

    It feels like this is going to be a story that divides the fanbase, because it seems like some people have become more focused on being seen as right as soon as possible rather than let things unfold. So I hope we can get beyond the I Told You So as soon as possible by whichever side "wins" just so that can get back to supporting our team.
     
  38. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    Great point! I agree. This will be the approach I take in the future.

    Lol! A while ago, I saw your avatar and changed mine to team Rosen because I wanted to be supportive. I am now taking a more leveled approach and have since switched it to Team Flores. :-)
     
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  39. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I have no feelings towards Flores one way or the other yet. Games will tell.
     
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