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A Philosophy Shift

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bpk, Mar 13, 2013.

  1. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    CK said something that stuck with me a month ago: Good is the enemy of great. We were discussing drafting some high-ceiling guys for the D-line, but the problem was that we already had 'good' starters there. This meant it was harder to justify drafting a great player when you already had a good one at a position.

    It got me thinking. Jeff ireland did a good job filling the roster with high-floor players (players who were not atrocious). It was a good roster that lacked GREAT players, except for one or two like Wake.

    But this week heralds a shifting of gears by jeff Ireland. His willingness to let Dansby and Burnett go in order to upgrade them is huge. It tells us he will not feel married to a past decision if there is an opportunity to improve that position.

    First, I want to credit him for being willing to divest himself of past decisions without worrying that it makes him look bad for getting those players in the first place. That takes a big man.

    Second, and more importantly, this brings a whole panoply of new options into play for the Dolphins. Whereas a month ago, I couldn't see them being willing to get a GREAT rush end because Odrick was in the way, now it's entirely possible Jeff would trade a guy like Odrick (hopefully not cut him) and put a BETTER DE at that spot. That's just an example, so don;t get hung up on that scenario.

    The point is, we now have a CREATIVE GM, willing to truly use his chess pieces to build upward with the roster's talent. He is willing to sacrifice a pawn to take a queen.

    Welcome to the new era of Dolphins football.

    Great has arrived.
     
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  2. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    I hope this is indeed the case. It certainly seems to be with the moves at linebacker. We'll see what else he has in store in the coming days/months. That will be the ultimate test.

    OT: who else had to look up 'panoply'?
     
  3. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I did. It was very crestfallen of him to use it.
     
  4. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I think when he arrived here we had bad players here. I always thought he was trying to get as many "high floor" guys as he could. Maybe one or two of them would turn into great players. Getting as many "high floor" guys would keep the team competitive for a while then he could add the "high ceiling" or "great" guys.

    I think a lot of GM who try to add just "high ceiling" guys get axed too soon because all the guys may not make it. "high ceiling" guys are 50/50 and most have lower floors. It may take them too long to reach that ceiling and by the time they do (if they do), the GM is fired. I think the GMs still need to add "high floor" guys in the draft at maybe a 50/50 rate with "high ceiling" guys as long as your roster isn't devoid of any talent like ours was when Ireland got here.
     
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  5. Berezo

    Berezo Well-Known Member

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    I am still worried about CB and OL...we will see what El Jeffe does in the coming days/months. If we can secure a few solid CB's and address our OL issue at the momet, Jeff may have hit every spot we needed.
     
  6. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If all those bad free agent signings last year were a part of this years plan, and this years plan was an actual plan based on actual evaluation by coaching staff and front office, then Ireland has been doing his home work to get to this point. I don't want to give him too much credit, but he appears to have been making decisions to get to this free agency period. How all this works in the cap and down the road is my concern. I hope he has been thorough in his evaluation of the cap hit.
     
  7. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    This is certainly not intended to be an "I told you so" post, but:

    Everything the supposed Jeff Ireland critics complained about the past few years is proving to be right and recognized by Jeff Ireland and the FO themselves.

    I'm not sure if it was Sparano leaving and Philbin coming in and basically like, "Well, it's ok....but it's probably why it's been medicocre for the past 5 years." Who knows.

    But the resistance to such ideas like

    "We need more explosive receivers"
    "We need a pass-catching TE"
    "Dansby is ovverrated"
    "We failed to upgrade key positions in 2012 FA"

    I'm still scratching my head why these opinions were met with such resistance around here.

    Oh well. It's comforting to know that even Jeff Ireland recognized his past mistakes and is at the very least attempting to fix them and make this team better than just mediocre.
     
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  8. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I think one of the major signs of Ireland changing his MO is that he made the lb changes. I never once thought, while this was unfolding yesterday, that adding Ellerbe/Wheeling is a direct result of mistakes made by adding Dansby/Burnett 3 yrs ago...they were good moves when they were made...they fit the mold of the type of team that the braintrust (at that time) wanted....these moves show that he's adept at listening to his coaching staff and adjusting to their needs and strengths...

    In a less wordy way, I don't think that he made any mistakes with acquiring Dansby and Burnett 3 yrs ago...
     
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  9. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I don't either.
     
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We'll see, Adding Wallace was not unforseeable.

    And if we recall, in 09 we signed some ILB from the Giants who looked like a beast AGap blitzer and he laster a year.

    Tim Dobbins..ring any bells?

    *Edit* Make that Reggie Torbor
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    He was a trade from San Diego
     
  12. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan New Member

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    No, not really, considering 1) he was a draft day trade and 2) he was on San Diego and has never played for the Giants.
     
  13. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I'm not going to judge Jeff's success by filling every single hole with a calber starter by next year.

    I will judge it by whether the roster, and team, are better in 2013 than 2012.

    He make upgrade our talent at some spots, and switch out players who are better for this coaching staff's system, and thus improve us while still having a hole or two. Those holes eventually get addressed in 2015, etc.

    Yes, I am actually thinking about Ireland still being here long term. Crazy.
     
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  14. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Gotta bake the cake before you ice it. Need to get CB and OT taken care of though.
     
  15. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I credit a lot of this shift to Joe Philbin being able to work closely with Jeff and teach him, for the first time in his entrie career, how to evaluate players in a NON-Parcellian way.

    PLayers that Jeff was trained to think were 'great' or 'prefect fits' are now being revealed as players the staff does NOT want. I think Jeff's eyes are opening a bit and I give him all the credit in the world for being a leopard who is changing his spots.
     
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  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Huh?

    I mean seriously....huh?

    If anything, the things proven wrong are that Ireland is scared to spend money or is unable to land FAs.

    "We need more explosive receivers" <-----------No one really argued that, The argument was a misunderstanding about Philbin not wanting #1 WRs and some people thinking that meant he didn't want #1 talent.

    "We need a pass-catching TE" <-----------No one argued that. And nothing has happened on that front so far anyway.

    "Dansby is ovverrated" <-----------No one really argued that.

    "We failed to upgrade key positions in 2012 FA" <-----------This one I'm tired of. We upgraded many key positions last offseason, not the least of which was QB. We didn't upgrade them all, but there's only so much you can do in an offseason. And quite frankly, I don't think that Ireland knew exactly what Philbin was looking for this time last year.
     
  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Cute, Reggie Torbor is who I had in mind.

    Gibril Wilson as well.

    And the other reality is, FA is great, but you have to start rookies and young guys as well this is the Ravens key to success over the years.
     
  18. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't through the word "great" around until you actually see the final product on the field.
     
  19. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    You certainly took it as I did not intend you to take it.

    Are you going to deny that some people were claiming Fasano was good enough and it was QB holding TE and WR back?

    Are you going to deny that some on here claimed Legadu Naannee was just as good as Mario Manningham and other FA available WRs in 2012? That Jeff Ireland's approach to WR in 2012 was not flawed.

    I'm willing to bet that 2013 Jeff Ireland would never pass on an Earl Thomas in favor of Misi/Odrick. That situation is a microcosm of what BPKs post was about. Stocking a roster full of average guys with high floors in favor of players with the abilities to become elite. It seems Jeff Ireland is shifting in the opposite direction of where he was in the 2010 draft. And that's a GOOD THING.
     
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  21. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    And not to blow smoke up your ***, FIN D

    But you were probably the one poster who had this whole situation pegged since March 2012. You made the right call in that he was setting up for the 2013 offseason.

    Kudos to you.

    Don't take my post the wrong way. it wasn't intended to be directed towards you so much.
     
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  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I know people were saying QB was holding back our WRs, I didn't see people saying that about Fasano though.
    I also don't recall anyone other than Omar supporting Nananee.
    I don't think his approach to WRs was flawed, I think he underestimated contracts for WRs.

    I don't see a huge shift this off season from the last one. I see the shift from before last season to last season.

    I think this shift is what a lot us calling for rational thought on Ireland's tenure were talking about. There was a shift that started to happen year before last. He had no direction that year, but the players he took were not Parcells players. Then last year that shift became more pronounced because he had direction, even if he didn't completely understand it. So far this year, seems like he understands what our coaches want is aggressively going and getting those pieces.
     
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  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I appreciate it, but I'm not so sure I predicted this. I was just more saying that he'd need some time to get a feel for Philbin since its a 180 from what Parcells had him doing.
     
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  24. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Where's the big shift? In 2010 it was Marshall and Dansby in 2011 it's Wallace and Ellerbe. People keep talking like this is something monumentally different, but to me it's eerily similar. Not saying I'm unhappy with the moves but we've been here before.
     
  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hmm, bit surprised Keller has not been signed already

    Has Ireland tapped the brakes and is now in bargain shopping mode?

    Keep in mind folks, basically we landed Mike Wallace, we still have a lot of cap space left and Ireland does not seem keen on tossing it around atm.
     
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    What is the odds of Wallace winning 2013 survivor?
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    That's assuming all LBs are the same as all other LBs and all WRs are the same as other WRs.

    Take Wallace and Marshall. They are vastly different WRs. One is a giant possession receiver with average speed, a huge frame and gaudy catch numbers and yardage with low TDs and low yards per catch. The other is a smaller fast burner with gaudy TDs and yards per catch.

    Marshall is the prototype Parcells receiver. Wallace is not even close.
     
  28. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Results follow a shift in mentality.

    The mentality dial has been adjusted to 'Be great' rather than "Don't suck", imo. The decisions will reflect that. Those decisions will accrue into an improved team on the field.

    There is time lag, but if we stay consistent it will happen. Progress is not overnight, but I expect a better 2013 than 2012.
     
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  29. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Well, now it's better to wait, I think. The leverage shifts from the players to the clubs the longer a player is unsigned and unwanted.
     
  30. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Please God no.
     
  31. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Not good. I'm not sure a new player who hasn't played a snap in a Miami uniform has ever made it to the top 3 or even top 5. Could be wrong though.
     
  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    That is true. It will be interesting. He is the most exciting player other than Tannehill and Wake.
     
  33. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I agree there are differences. But not monumental shifts in philosophy. If Brandon Marshall was the best free agent WR, and his prior stint with Miami never happened, I'd wager he would have been Ireland's top target. I think Ireland was looking to sign the best WR available. I could be wrong.

    The one big difference I do like is how we handled Hartline as opposed to how Ginn was handled. When we signed Marshall, Ginn was jettisoned, even though I thought he should have been kept for return skills and to see what he could do with Marshall drawing away attention from the defense. As opposed to the Wallace signing and keeping Hartline. I think Hartline will only do better with a guy like Wallace on the other side.
     
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  34. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I'd say the only way Tannehill doesn't win is if people really start to take the Survivor curse seriously. But Cam Wake is also worthy of another title. Probably moreso than Tannehill based strictly on 2012.
     
  35. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I am back on the Wake train!
     
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  36. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    Dansby and Burnett were both good signings three years ago but they had reached their ceiling and were not impact players but just adequate. From what I read they attempted to resign Dansby to a cheaper contract but evidently he wouldn't do it. This is an indication they thought he could contribute but wasn't worth what he was being paid, an indication he was adequate but not an impact player. They appear to be trying to get faster and more athletic at LB.
    I know there has been quite a bit of discussion or suggestion about trading draft picks for certain players. Personally I am glad we have gotten to this point without giving up any draft picks. We are probably at the best place draft wise that we have been in, in a long, long time. If Ireland with Philbin's input can make this a successful draft it could go a long ways in making this into a winning Franchise.
     
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  37. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Disagree. Ireland was hot for Marshall based on Sparano valuing certain things in a WR. For example, PArcells always seemed to emphasize that WRs be big, and be very strong blockers, and very strong tackle breakers. So there was that.

    while ALL coaches like those things since they are positive traits, not all coaches PRIORITIZE them. That's why we kept getting guys like Ernest Wilford and Legadu Naanee. Supposedly big bodies to block and break tackles.

    Well, Joe Philbin comes from a different mold, imo. And this offseason he and Jeff sat down and reviewed every player on the roster, and all the free agents. Ireland got to hear what PHILBIN values in a wide reciever, in depth. And Philbin's opinions on different types and traits in receivers.

    And we sign Mike Wallace for big money.

    Mike Wallace doesn't happen under Sparano and Parcells. just like Brandon Marshall doesn't happen under Philbin... hell, Philbin may have been part of why Marshall was traded AWAY in the first place!
     
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  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I think you're stuck on the big time FA WR concept, because of that you see no difference.

    What you're doing is saying 2 movies star big name leading men, therefore there's no difference. I'm saying one movie stars Will Ferrel and the other stars Robert Deniro and that's what makes them different.

    Again, look at the difference between the WRs. That is your philosophy shift.

    *******EDIT: Disregard what I wrote and just read BPK's post above because that is spot on and said better than I could.
     
  39. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod Staff Member

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    It looks real to me.

    I'm voting for John Denney this year.
     
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  40. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    None of these changes should be surprising. Ireland is buying the groceries for a whole new set of folks.
     
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