A Perfect Complementary Piece Is Out There...Gulp

And naturally if you're the Denver Brocnos you're thinking, we spent a 1st round pick on this guy, we gave him signing bonuses, if another team can convert him to something that useful and interesting why can't we? Attitude and burnt bridges would tend not to be a problem with this young man. That's a good question but I would point to the fact that until a month ago they thought they would be trading Kyle Orton away and giving Tim Tebow a valid shot at the starting QB job. And so, they grabbed a Julius Thomas in the Draft, also a Virgil Green. They grabbed a Daniel Fells, and a Dante Rosario. The idea of moving Tebow to Tight End can't really appeal as much to them because that position is already crowded. That ship has sailed. All that's left is his Wildcat prowess and if you're John Fox and/or John Elway, suddenly the question must be asked whether you really value that at all. I know John Elway would say that in his day he would never want to come off the field for some Wildcat attack.

 

Not worth the distraction.

 

There's now an official rumor (oxymoron?) out there that Tim Tebow is on the trade block for the Broncos, and their asking price is a 4th or 5th round pick.

I'd be all over it. Ask them how they feel about Phil Merling. Toss in a 6th or 7th if that's what it takes.

I don't have much hope for the Dolphins' season but let's take that 7.5 over/under line for Vegas for an example. If I'd have been more inclined to bet 7 wins than 8 wins on that Vegas line pre-Tebow, I'd be more inclined to bet 8 wins than 7 wins post-Tebow.

Goal line and red zone efficiency can be very important.

 

How many 5th round picks have we tossed away anyway?

It seems to me to be a fair price, for a guy who adds a real value to your team, even if it's not at QB. But sure, if they'd take Merling, even better.

Next year if our QB stable is Matt Moore, 1st round pick (Jones, Tannehill, whoever) and Tebow, I'm excited about that.

 

Look, it doesn't matter if Tebow is a fit here or not, adding him would be the quintessential act of desperation by this group.

1) no time to work his skillset into our system. Partly due to the lockout, partly due to the fact that we are 10 days or so from the start of the real season.
2) the fact that Tebow wasn't good enough to beat out a mediocre Orton is enough for me to think that he's not right for us. It's not like he was sitting behind Brady, Drew or Peyton...he was given a chance to take the spot and Orton beat him out ??
3) Exactly what piece would he supply that we don't have ?? He's not a speedy receiver. He's not a pass catching TE. He's not a starting QB in this league at this point. What would he be ?? A backup QB that may not see the field ?? Ok, let's assume the worst that Henne falters this season... Tebow would be asked to come in and work a system that doesn't fit him and he'll be learning on the job anyway. We won't be any better off....
4) He has issues with accuracy, arm, pocket presence, reading D's and he's inexperienced to boot. Henne has problems with accuracy, reading D's, pocket presence and is relatively inexperienced...where's the big difference??

This regime or at least Ireland is not that desperate. I think even if we don't get the job done this season, Sparano may be gone, but will Ireland ?? I don't think so...now, depending on the replacement coach that could be different...but Ireland hasn't done as bad... It's rather funny that we are talking about Tebow as if he were an elite QB...he's just a youngster with some upside...just like Henne...

 

I dont think anybody is suggesting that Tebow would be our starting QB. He would absolutely be a nice goal line/red zone running weapon who would also be your wildcat triggerman. I have no doubt that he could elarn these basic plays very quickly. He would ne your 3rd QB who would develop and learn the system as the season progresses.

Then next year, maybe you have something. And if you don't, then at elast you might get Vrabel like TD production out of him, which is well worth Merling or a 5th round pick.

 

Personally, I hope the WC is dead... However while that's good point for Tebow, what we haven't seen is Thomas in the WC QB spot, something he did well in college. I would guess that's not going to be something they unveil in the preseason. I just don't see adding Tebow as significantly upgrading this team...I'd rather have a pass-catching #2 TE or an OLB situational rusher (even tho we have JT in that role, we just don't know how effective he'll really be) or a decent S or even a decent G or RT....

 

I think you are underselling Orton. They guy is a decent QB and has been in the league for 6 years. 71-49 TD-INT ratio. 12,000+ yards. I wouldn't expect a 2nd year Tebow to beat out a guy like that so soon, not that I expect him to ever be at that level as a QB.

 

The new QB rules will probably save Tebow,s job at Denver .As we all know he can be effective as a change of pace QB and getting into the endzone .

 

I disagree with this assessment.

For one thing, you may classify it as a move made out of desperation. That's fine. But not all of those are created equally. Signing Chad Pennington was a desperate move, a last minute gambit made because they were desperate for any amount of leadership at the QB position. The Dolphins were FORTUNATE that the desperation move even became available to them, just as they would be fortunate that this move becomes available to them.

You ask what Tim Tebow brings to this offense. I'll tell you.

1. The very first thing he brings to the offense is the ability to sub him in near the goal line and run single-wing plays that should absolutely help the Dolphins offense be more efficient in that area. He scored 11 touchdowns last year as a rookie. Do we have a running back on roster that is going to score 11 touchdowns as a Wildcat QB, running and passing? No. We do not. This was a specialty of his in college, it's the reason he had a bazillion touchdowns at Florida in the best conference in college football. Urban Meyer developed the single-wing (which was exactly what the Wildcat started as here in Miami) with Tebow as the focus. The mesh exchange between Tebow and Reggie Bush would look an awful lot like those mesh exchanges between Tebow and Percy Harvin. This is an IMPORTANT facet of the offense. Doesn't it scare you that 3rd round rookie Sione Fua and the vaunted 1-15 Carolina Panthers defensive line stuffed us from the 1 yard line on 1st, 2nd and 3rd down? What the hell will the Patriots or Jets do to us from the 2 or 3 yard line if that's what the Panthers could do to us from the 1 yard line?

2. All those things we talked about for Kyle Orton, about how he knows Josh McDaniels' offense and McDaniels' offense is a cousin of Brian Daboll's and therefore that puts Orton ahead of the game learning our offense? All that is true of Tim Tebow as well. McDaniels' offense was the first he learned last year as a rookie. This would help him in WHATEVER you ask him to do, be it pass catching, or even being a backup quarterback.

3. Third string quarterbacks don't get a whole lot of reps in practice. Remember when John Beck got relegated to third string, how he basically never saw the field even in practice? That leaves that guy a LOT of time to work on some other things, like...I dunno, say, H-Back? You wouldn't be asking him to solve high level mathematical theories at H-Back. You'd be asking the guy to learn a certain number of plays and routes and getting him to just catch the ball and use his natural RAC ability to make some plays. Short term, he's obviously not going to be as proficient in this as he will be long term. But since when is the short term the ONLY thing that matters in Miami? I hate this. I absolutely ****ing hate how everything is now, now, now, now, now. If it's not good for right now it's not good, period. Such short-sightedness is the reason this team is not very well thought of out there among the rest of the NFL. It's the reason we've had 4-12, 1-15, 7-9, 7-9 and 6-10 seasons in the last 7 seasons. It's the reason we haven't won a playoff game in like 10 years. Aren't you tired of that? I am.

 

I think adding Tebow would immediately solve any short-yardage game concerns. That alone is worth it. I also don't think it ever hurts to add another guy who improves your work ethic. You already have Thomas following Bush's example. I wonder how many more would up their effort if Bush and Tebow were raising the bar at practice. And IMO he's compelling enough as a QB prospect or at worst an athlete prospect to make it a no-brainer. The only negative I could think of is the distraction from the impatient who would be expecting Tebow to take over the starting position immediately. But frankly, that would be on Sparano to be smart enough to quash.

 

No way I want Henne going to the bench and Tebow coming in. That is The Henning, Lee philosophy that this offense wants to get away from.
Sure we will see some WC stuff but no reason to bring Tebow here. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

 

Maybe, but 32-30 is the main stat I looked at...(w/l record). I just don't see Orton as an answer, nor Tebow....

 

These are all points that could be very valid. My biggest concern with adding Tebow would be the fan/press reaction to anytime Henne might struggle or throw INT's. Your answer to that might very well be that if Henne's going to make it, he has to be tougher, however that isn't necessarily the case here. Henne has had the shadow of Pennington and Dan Marino the whole time he's been here. Justified or not, that's part of what's holding Henne back. I realize you already decided that Henne needs to be replaced, you have made no bones that. And I'm not arguing one way or the other on Henne, but bringing in Tebow and it being unlikely that he'll have a chance to replace Henne, if for nothing more than the timing and logistics of when he arrives likely won't endear him to doing his best either...so will he really be that guy in the red zone, I don't know...just speculation at this point.

Additionally, wouldn't it make more sense for Denver to utilize him in that capacity if that's his best input, since it costs them nothing but a salary to keep him ?? Well, other than the fact that they have apparently all but given up on him...

 

Henne is going to hear it from the fans/media if he struggles regardless of who his backups are.

If you're not going to potentially improve the bottom half of your roster because of what such an addition might do to Chad Henne then we have bigger problems than we ever imagined.

 

I don't think Dan Marino's shadow holds anyone back. Lack of talent holds players back. Pennington's presence MIGHT have had an effect. I speculated as much when I saw that Henne wasn't voted a team captain.

But at some point someone needs to just tell Chad Henne to grow a pair. He can't handle the "shadow" of a guy that hasn't played here in 11 years, he can't handle the presence on the roster of a guy that fully endorsed him as the starter and embraced his role as a backup, and now he can't handle the presence of a 1st round bust that gets traded from his team for a low draft choice?

If that's the case, there could be NO SURER SIGN that Chad Henne is not only not meant for this team, but not for the NFL period. He lacks the testicular fortitude.

 

Agreed CK.

I know people like to bag Crowder, but when he made his comments about Henne it wasn't about physical skills or even making the right reads. Crowder openly stated that he did not believe Henne had the intestinal fortitutde to be a starting QB in this league. That he did not want the ball in crunch time. That's about the worst thing you can say about a QB.

And it all goes together with Henne's crying about the benching last year, his own admission that it was tough to be a leader because of Penny (who was the 3rd QB for much of the year) and his reaction to the "we want Orton" stuff this TC.

When the going gets tough, I really wonder about this guy.

 

Henne has taken more scrutiny than a Dolphins QB has ever taken yet he now has his confidence back stronger than ever. To say the guy doesn't have the balls to take the heat is just pure hatred and not clear judgement. The more I read these type of posts the more I feel there is this underlying distaste for what the Dolphins didn't do in the draft.
Henne didn't get upset about the unfair benching last season but in his defense a few of the statements he did make were justified. Henning pinned the problems with his scheme on the young QB which was rule #1 no no. He handled it all wrong and now Daboll is fixing these sorts of things.
As for Tebow if we were going to go after him we should have just kept Pat White.

 

You dropped my jaw with this statement bro.........
And people say we have QB problems now.

 

There is a clear difference between Tebow and Pat White. I've seen Tebow get creamed by an SEC D-lineman and still put some zip on his pass while falling backward. Sometimes all you need is for your QB to stay healthy in this league. He doesn't shy away from the big moments. Hell, Sparano was even quoted as saying how he really saw the game slow down for him from practice to practice when he coached him in the all-star game.

BTW-not signing someone because you don't want to appear desperate is beyond silly to me...It's a desperate man's game.

 

I don't think Henne is that far superior to Moore. I guess he's better but it's not some grand canyon sized gap.

And yeah, you'd have caretaker veteran (whoever it is), first round pick who is your future, and a #3 with upside who can also play a different role for you in certain packages. Swap out Moore for Henne or veteran of your choice if you want. I only named Moore because he is under contract for next year and Henne is not.

 

Uh oh. I kinda... almost....sorta , agree with this.

 

Can someone explain to me how a failing QB who's never been that impressive throwing the ball, even in his college career, is the perfect complimentary piece to the Dolphins when we already have multiple failing QBs who have never been that impressive throwing the ball. I call that needless redundancy, not a perfect complimentary piece. At least Henne had a decent game against the Panthers.

 

Moore is Thigpen all over again. With that group of QB's you would then have a rookie( never taken a snap), a back-up and a 1st round bust.
It would be a complete disaster.

 

I don't see Tebow as a failing QB. I see Tebow as a project/developmental QB who has so much hype around him that many have forgotten he's a project/developmental QB. I see him as a worthwhile complementary piece b/c he has a great deal of talent that can be developed and provides some immediate impact as a short yardage and WC option.

 

And a team with an established QB and coach has the luxury of bringing in a Tim Tebow and taking on that project/development. The Dolphins have neither of those things. He's just not a good fit here at all.

 

Why? What is different about the cost-benefit situation for the Dolphins versus the Patriots? If anything the benefits are much greater for the Dolphins BECAUSE they don't have an established QB.

 

[video=youtube;8w9iRzcpm1Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w9iRzcpm1Y&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

I think the problem is that you are still looking at quite a bit of added development time. I think the main reason the Broncos are unhappy with him is that they spent a lot of time on his throwing mechanics and he learned but comes back this season and he was back to college form. You just cannot spend time on developing a guy that goes back to square one during an offseason. Honestly I don't see Tebow as an impact in this league. Definitely not with the Dolphins. We struggle to develop QB's anyhow. Why throw a big project in our laps.

 

The only passes I want Tebow throwing in Miami are from balls that have already been handed off or pitched to him.

The base offense will take longer to become proficient in the redzone if WC plays continue stealing excessive reps.
An occasional goal line or short yardage play I wouldn't have a problem with.

 

You could've said the same thing about Brady the year he won his first Superbowl. I remember all the fans hanging on the edge of their seat for every first down, just barely squeaking by on wins. I'm not a fan at all of trying to change a QB's throwing motion.

 

Note in that video the efficiency in the TIGHT RED ZONE (inside the opponent's 10 yard line).

Last year Tim Tebow had his number called 10 times in Goal-to-Go. He scored 7 touchdowns. That's INSANE efficiency. Yes, I've looked at QB stats in that area across the league. I can tell you that's the best efficiency I've seen. 'Normal' is to score a TD on about 35% of plays.

That's 70.0% touchdown efficiency in Goal-to-Go situations. The highest I tallied for a QB's career was Tony Romo's 42.4%.

 

No one had to teach Brady to play under the C.

 

Point is, there isn't a goal line specialist in the game today except MAYBE Brandon Jacobs, that is more fearful to a defense than Tim Tebow.

And people don't want the guy here? Come on!

You get the goal line specialty in addition to whatever he could do as a TE/H-Back convert, in addition to his being able to fill in as a more than capable emergency backup QB. I feel like Billy Mays should be pitching this.

 

I didn't even know that was a problem for Timmy. Oh well, I seriously doubt that he's on the trading block anyway...

 

How much is he due to make this year and who would we have to cut to make room?

 

The other thing I forgot to mention is that tocuhdowns are moneymakers.

So let's say Tim Tebow comes to the Dolphins and becomes a fixture on the offense. Really efficient goal line guy, part time TE/H-Back, emergency QB. How much do you really have to pay him? With such a limited role, it's hard to imagine having to pay him a lot of money.

On the other hand think of how much money he saves you. A quarterback that does all your throwing, and throws a lot of touchdowns, costs you mega-$$$. A running back that does the bulk of your running, and also scores you a lot of touchdowns, costs you mega-$$$. The more touchdowns you run into the end zone as opposed to passing, the fewer receiving touchdowns your receivers have to their names that they can use to demand mega-$$$.

Tim Tebow, with his mix of mostly running touchdowns but also some passing touchdowns, hawks into the moneymaker stats of all those guys...your quarterback, your running back, your receivers. If you're runnning a good program, and you're winning a lot of games...a lot of players will swallow that. But in the meanwhile, that's not necessarily going to help them come contract time.

 

For all the hubub over LJ, a guy who has scored all of 8 TDs the last 4 YEARS, yet is supposed to be our goaline savior, why not take the guy who scored 7 TDs last year alone?

 

His contract was for $9.75 million over 5 years, with an incentive that would pay him an extra $1.5 million if he plays 45% of the offense's snaps in any of the years of his contract. That was at the time considered to be a "log" incentive, as in achieving it should be as easy as falling off a log, however if he comes to Miami and converts to a TE/H-Back/Goal Line guy, that 45% of snaps figure is not guaranteed at any point in the life of his contract. I don't know what percentage of the contract has already been paid in signing bonus, but whatever has already been paid by the Broncos will have to be eaten by them when/if he's traded. There are also a ton of incentives stuck in the deal though, probably not very likely to achieve incentives, that potentially escalate the deal's worth to $33 million. But like I said, I'm not sure those incentives are feasible.

 

bingo