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A Look at the Dolphins Under Ross

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    I can't speak for the veracity of all this but this is a subject not a lot of people are talking about:

     
  2. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I can't bring myself to listen to this dude for 45 minutes. Are there Cliff Notes? :up:
     
  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    0:00 - Video Start 0:03 - Introduction 3:46 - Parable of Phins & Excalibur 6:35 - Ross Effect the Game of Thrones 15:26 - "There Can Only Be One!" 20:48 - One Ruler in the Phindom 25:00 - Flores Reels in Gailey 27:41 - Grier Gets Tua Haul 31:32 - Et Tu, Chris Grier? 37:39 - Gailey Get Ragnared 38:40 - Sherlock Solves Miami Mystery?
     
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    His accent?
     
  5. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Thats a minor aspect for sure, but its the investment in time more than anything, lol. I'd much rather get my info where I can read it at my own pace than sit through nearly anyone rambling on about things and have to sift through what they say.
     
  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yup, I've watched that guy a few times as well recently and while he knows his stuff, his average 15 minute video would be 10 times better at 5 or 6 minutes. I will almost never click on a 45 minute video, even if it's from someone I absolutely love.
     
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  7. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Real bottom line - his opinion/guess - is that Grier is a problem. Not only for his picks, but as a holdover of an old, cut-throat culture and we're now facing co-OCs because no one wants to come here to coach because of a reputation for back-stabbing. So Flores made so with what he had.

    He points out a number of different steps along the way and doesn't see a reason for Ross or Flores to push Tua in mid-season and blindside Gailey and Fitz. Grier is the one with something to gain in proving his picks right when under pressure.

    If right, until Grier is gone, Dolphins will struggle bringing in coaching talent.

    You could probably pick it up from 31:40 or even 38:41
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
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  8. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    The guy is spot on.

    Grier needs to be shown the door as soon as possible, he has been a cancer on the organization for decades now. I also blame Ross for putting this guy in charge. Ross obviously knows next to nothing about football and doesn't even know who to hire.
     
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  9. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    All of the capital from the Tunsil trade!! Gone! For squat! That alone should get him literally thrown out the door.
     
  10. DOLBET

    DOLBET Active Member

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    Watched whole video and he is correct. There are lot of puzzling events but when looked back at, it makes sense.

    Grier is ****ing up Miami Dolphins and he need to be out asap.
     
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  11. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    so Dan Marino who’s been giving advise to the club for years doesn’t see that Grier is getting bad talent? I’m sure he would have said something no??
     
  12. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Dan isn't really involved in that kind of stuff anymore. His official title is special advisor to Ross and Garfinkle, and I think that what he does on the football side is very surface.
     
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  13. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I mentioned in another thread that Grier actually has done a wonderful job in Tanenbaum's old role of making trades, moving around in the draft, and making sure that the team has the cap space necessary to be competitive.

    Its the other half of his job - the one he's held the longest, that he's struggled with, in personnel acquisition and development.

    Either way, the entire Front Office - not only Grier but his top assistants as well, all need to go. Several of them have been with the team since the Wanny days or earlier. The team has the same issues, coach after coach, and it really feels like having the same people involved in drafting and scouting has to be one of the root causes.
     
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  14. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I was under the impression Grier and Flores were lock step in decision making and player acquisition discussions. So I would say this lays at the feet of Flores as well if true. He should be fighting for the players and coaches he wants and if he isn’t than shame on him he’s not as good a coach as we think.
     
  15. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    That's the part that I wonder about too. If Grier is blindsiding Flores too then it can only be because Ross supports it - which wouldn't be unheard of based on his prior leadership structures. If that's the case though, Flores might want to bail too. If Ross isn't behind it then I'm not sure how Grier influences Flores' coaching choices, unless Flores was being soft and friendly, and might now want to start to change direction. In which case, there might be a split.

    On the other hand, if it's all coming down from Ross, and he's influencing pick choices for Grier and who to play for Flores, then we might be doomed until Ross moves on. Maybe he could learn, but repeated patterns of behaviour can be hard to shake, and if Flores does move on, it might be really hard to bring in someone else.

    Something is rotten here. The question is who - one, two, more?
     
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  16. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Increase the video speed to 1.25 and he talks at a normal pace. Interesting information and it really goes back to Ross betraying Sparano and hiring the wrong GM time and again.
     
  17. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Ross is the owner, can't change that until he hangs it up. I actually don't mind Ross at all. He wants to win, he wants great things. He's cool with letting people do their jobs. That's a good owner in my opinion. I do think Grier will be ultimately tied to how well Tua does. If he Tua busts, Grier will quickly go with him. As of right now, Grier is as good as gone. If Tua comes back, sets the league on fire and leads us to the playoffs then all will be forgiven. Simple as that. We need a franchise QB. Grier possibly whiffed on Herbert by taking Tua and that'll be all she wrote for him here in Miami....Unless Tua turns it around.
     
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  18. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    On this board, i said it when we became rich in draft picks after the Tunsil trade… lets back a brinks truck to Ozzie Newsome to make those decisions.. i said it then, the picks we make can make or set us back.. even if it was just a short stint, just to oversee our football operations, his knowledge would have gone a long way of the decision making we made with those draft picks and with free agency..

    we keep drafting the little guy or some reach.. jaylen waddle instead of staying put and taking Pitts or Chase.. tua instead of a 6’6 athletic quarterback with a cannon…

    i am a big believer of best player available. Not need.

    i had 60 players better than tua. And i had about 10 other players better than jaylen.

    maybe they prove me wrong but i have doubts..

    ive yet to see Jaylens speed.. looking a little slow out there
     
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  19. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Tua can't turn it around unless the OL somehow improves by quite a bit. Grier whiffed on building the OL though and Tua isn't enough of an athletic beast to compensate for a poor OL.
     
  20. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I am not a blind believer in best player available. It depends on how much better your BPA is than the next player on the board who fits a position of need. And how good of a player you already have on your team that plays the same position as the BPA.

    Also BPA is subjective. Who you think is the BPA might not actually be the BPA.
     
  21. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Same, I had a 2nd round grade on Tua. If we stayed at 3, I wanted Chase or trade back and take Parsons. I’ll never understand the trade up with the use of our pick to take a small receiver coming off an injury. In fact, why does he keep taking small players from Alabama coming off of an injury?

    It’s such a head scratcher because he hits home runs in 2nd round with Xavien and Kwon but is god awful with 1st round picks. I watched AJ Epenesa eat Jackson alive in a bowl game but yet he drafts him. The Tunsil trade is going to go down as a completely botched opportunity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I get why people say, "We had to trade Tunsil...that was fantastic value." It was great value and I agree, but you have to hit on those picks 100% with a player who replaces Tunsil. We also let James walk because we didn't want to pay him, so that's two solid tackles we developed in-house, only to let them walk when it was time for real money.

    That's the mistake here, the real dagger, you have to pay your quality linemen in order to build a solid, cohesive unit. It used to be you could have a stud tackle at $5M/year....now they're $15M+. Why? Because they really are that important to winning football games!

    I think Austin Jackson is going to be a really solid football player in the near future. On plays where he has the fundamentals in place, the guy is an absolute mauler. So I try to temper expectations by reminding myself he was a long-term project after his surgery. But the problem here is not whether or not he develops...it's about what we do in year 5 of his contract.

    If he's a stud, then pay the guy and stop this ridiculous rinse and repeat we've been doing. If he's not, then okay...draft someone else and pay that guy if he's the real deal. But you can't develop these guys to pro-bowl levels and then cash in, you just can't. They're far too important to the organization.

    Think about the talent we've let walk-

    • Tunsil
    • Minkah
    • Tannehill
    • Drake
    • Miller
    • Stills
    • Landry
    • James (RT)
    • Damien Williams
    With a couple more linemen and a WR1, that could be an all-pro offense! All these folks went on to have solid careers with other teams.
     
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  23. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Coaching and player development has been our biggest issue for many years, especially on the offensive side of the ball. The Fins have wasted the careers of so many guys because of that.
     
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  24. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    You bring up a lot of good points. The thing I’ve been thinking about lately, is whether it makes sense to pay your OL big money. In the 80’s/90’s when the best pass rusher lined up on the blind side, you had to have a very good LT and it made sense.

    Now blitzes come from everywhere and it’s about having 5 solid to good OL as a unit and some depth. So with the cap at $180mm, depending on it you’re having to pay a franchise QB or elite pass rusher, you have to figure out how to divvy that up. Let’s just say $25-35mm is going to OL, does it make sense to pay someone $18-20mm+ a year or are you better off having 3 guys who are in the $9-12mm range with some guys who are still on their first contract.

    To me that is part of the problem with the Dolphins, we’re constantly having to spend 1st round picks to solve this and up until maybe Hunt/Kindly/Dieter, missed with too many mid round picks which are cheaper contracts, giving you more money to pay guys going on their 2nd contract.

    I don’t really have a strong opinion on this and my numbers might be off but more food for thought.

    That’s also why I don’t understand why we let Flowers go or sign some moderate price FA(meaning not the tier 1 guys).
     
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  25. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this, it has been a multi faceted problem for years. We don't want to pay for guys who develop into good olinemen so we let them go. Then we spend draft capital on olinemen to compensate, but we usually whiff on the picks because we don't know how to evaluate Oline talent. We also have never been able to get a good Oline coach in here to develop young players quickly and build a cohesive unit.

    We just never seem to prioritize the Oline as much as we should either. I remember a few years ago under Gase and Tannenbaum they were talking about not needing guards that much in today's NFL, then we lost several games that year due to poor guard play. Overall it's been an abject failure and it should all fall on the front offices shoulders.
     
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  26. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Thats just crazy. If you look at the most common traits of contenders/super bowl winners, it’s franchise QB, OL and defense(specifically ability to get pressure on the QB). Franchise QB’s only come around so often and sometimes you’re not in a position to draft them. That’s where you need to be building those pieces on defense and the OL.
     
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  27. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Think about it this way. You're going on an expedition in the jungle and you can bring 5 guys to help/protect you- but you only have so much money to pay them. Do you-

    A) Bring five of your pals and just buy their food/beer for the trip? No reason to pay them!
    B) Hire two or three of the best money can buy, then a couple younger explorers who also know a thing or two?
    C) Hire five young, eager guys in great shape that say "we definitely got this!"

    Group A, you're going to die out there....you just are. Group C, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't....but there's going to be some really sketchy moments from time to time. But with group B, you have Bear Grylls and two other incredible survivalists teaching you and the others every single day. They learn from each other, grow with each other and walk away better for it....of course you hire group B.

    The offensive line is identical- Dallas started hiring "group B" 20 years ago and they haven't looked back. We keep hiring "group c" and regardless if they develop or not, they're out the door in five years so we can hire someone else. Pouncey, Cogs, Tunsil, James, etc....we've had some real studs that made great building blocks. But they were consistently hurt and the drop-off from them to the "next guy up" was pretty extreme.

    We genuinely need 8 studs in offensive line- two or three scrappy veterans, two or three younger studs and then a couple of rookies that are soaking up all that knowledge from players that are kicking ***. That's what we do in any profession, any career...we have some that are incredible and we nurture the young talent. But in Miami, we have last year's assistant coach with Jesse Davis and all rookies/2nd year players. OF COURSE it's not consistent. OF COURSE they're not setting the world on fire. They don't have the league experience and there's nobody teaching them firsthand.

    With that said, I think we have some great prospects. Eichenberg, Jackson, Hunt....they're all future leaders. But today, they're still learning their craft and figuring it all out. I mean, look at Tunsil. We kicked him to guard year 1 working with an aging veteran (did well), tackle year 2 (did pretty well), and then in year three we started to see he was actually special. It took Tunsil 2-3 years to fully develop with an amazing mentor in year one...but we expect Eichenberg to be on the same level in three total games learning from Jesse Davis?

    I don't think the sky is falling when it comes to offensive line and I do think we drafted fairly well- but you can't compare five rookies to another team's line of four veterans and a rookie. Of course that dude on the other team looks better, because he has four guys helping him out every single time the football is snapped, plus he has real coaching. So I think we're okay at line long-term, but it's going to be one heck of a bumpy ride getting there.

    Again though, my concern isn't next year when these guys begin to find some chemistry and our line looks decent. It's two or three years after that when we need to start handing out 2nd contracts. If these guys develop, we absolutely positively need to pay them and keep a foundation of great talent with real experience in place. Then you can grab a 5th round guard and work him into the lineup over a couple of years...that works!

    But what we're doing is almost impossible and it's why we start so slow, then eventually build some consistency.
     
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  28. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Curtis posted a follow up:

     
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  29. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    Disagree with him about Gailey, especially about him being good for Tua, but hope he’s right about Grier’s future (or lack thereof) in Miami.
     
  30. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    It's Groundhog Day until/unless Ross sells the team.
     
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  31. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    He's over 80 years old. Most of us will be able to wait it out.
     
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  32. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    Who's his successor?
     
  33. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Probably doesn't matter. Whichever of his relatives inherit it will no doubt sell it, given how much an NFL franchise is worth.
     
  34. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    87 wins in 12 years. Multiple coaches, GM's and drafts. Ross is part of the problem or maybe he is the problem.
     
  35. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Same old Dolphins, does it ever change? Did Marino curse us because of his #13? What has to happen that we get back to where we are respected at least and not being the Miami Brownslions?
     
  36. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Fire everyone and hire people who have proven that they can do it somewhere else. Easier said than done. But its the only way I'll have much hope.

    Six straight rookie head coaches. None have worked out yet. Grier and his top assistants have all been with the team for 20+ years. Clean them all out.
     
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  37. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    We tried that with Parcells… + Flores really injected some hope in a different way. I‘m just tired of the same old same old and the bad drafting…
     
  38. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    They (Flores and the offensive staff mostly) need to act like their jobs on the line, because they absolutely should be. Ross should just dismiss Grier today.

    Realistically, we will probably not do anything until Tua returns and we see if he can do anything.

    I'd start Sinnett next week though. Whoever calls the last few minutes of games (when we are essentially FORCED into actually challenging the defense) should be the one and only OC, the rest can be demoted or fired.
     
  39. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    images.jpeg
     
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  40. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Parcells wasn't invested in the Fins at all. He used Ross for the money and left as soon as he could. He's also an evil old bastard who I've always hated.

    Either way, that was 2008. Is 13 years enough time to try something else?
     
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