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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by finserg, Jan 9, 2008.
Anderson could very well be a product of his environment
They're comparable in the sense that we traded away a draft pick on a whim. Even if Derek Anderson has a better chance for success it's certainly not worth the #1 overall pick in my mind. They better throw in Moss as well, or something.
He was better than what his QB rating indicated. He had a good running game, a #1 WR and a very good TE but very little talent receiving talent behind that. Even if you could argue that Anderson had good 3rd and 4th receiving option, or even mediocre 3rd and 4th receiving options, scoring 25+ points a game on offense is very impressive.
It just seems that nobody is willing to give Anderson his props to what was a very good season.
Braylon Edwards puts up an additional 405 receiving yards and 10 touchdowns to his previous highs (in as many games), but Anderson gets no credit. Kellen Winslow puts up an additional 235 yards and 2 touchdowns to his previous highs, and Anderson gets no credit.
The 20 turnovers is a little concerning, but the 32 touchdowns, 7.2 ypa and the 25+ points a game more than make up for that. The fact that he also has great measurables/tools and isn't quite 25 years old also leads me to believe that his '07 season wasn't a fluke.
As I previously stated, I wouldn't give up a high first. But I think Anderson would be worth a late first rounder.
Nothing wrong with having two young QBs
So we'll agree to disagree.
So could a lot of QBs
I never implied he was worth the 1st overall pick, or even a middle of the 1st round pick. I don't think there's any team that would trade a 1st and 3rd him, but a high 2nd round pick is a fair trade IMO.
true, that's why I said could
the dude was claimed off of the Raven's PS, we need to do better at finding our own QB's and drafting some talent
if we don't draft a TE this year, my head will explode
He has a very nice WR/TE combo in Edwards and Winslow, but he doesn't have much receiving talent after that. Certainly not enough to say that just about any average QB could run that offense as effectively as Anderson did in '07.
you are right it is apples and oranges, but they still both smell like fruit
we need to build up an environment for a QB to succeed instead of just going crazy to find a QB
Sure he deserves credit and yes scoring 25+ points a game is impressive, but he hasn't done it long enough to justify trading a 1st and a 3rd, or even just a 2nd rounder for that matter.
he has a very good OL too, kind of important IMO
Nothing wrong with it at all, but QB really isn't the problem that this team has, it's stopping the run. And now we are going to be overhauling the D to fit the 3/4 scheme that Parcells and Co. are going to be installing, so draft picks are very important to this team.
Agree to disagree on this one
Well in this case, Feeley's an apple. The kind of apple that looks fine until you take a bite and notice there's a worm inside........
Anderson could be Feeley or he could be Hasselback, who knows
but with our talent, he won't be jack squat
I wonder what the franchise would look like now if we had Hasselback? how bad would he be if he had gone to Wanny instead of Holmgren. he got lucky
I want no part of trading a 1st rounder for Anderson, because the 1st rounder would either be the 1st overall pick, a first round pick that is a result of trading down (top/middle 1st round pick) or next years 1st round pick. That's just too much value for Anderson at this stage. I'm fine with the equivalent of a late 1st (32nd overall) though, that's about as far as I'd be willing to go.........
Talk about "voodoo economics", then we have two young, groomed to be starters on the in Miami.
I agree. About as close as I would say is Anderson and their first for a second and our first.
Neither of those would be acceptable for the Browns. They will want way too much for Anderson. I remember when we had the #2 pick. Saban tried everything he could to get the Browns to trade up for Braylon Edwards. They even went as far as to call Edwards and tell him he was the pick. The Browns just said fine, take him or at least something along those lines. They won't be suckered into any bad trades. They know Anderson's value is very high right now and they're going to take advantage of it.
If Anderson were to enter this year's draft pool, where do you think he would be taken?
He does have a good OL, but the thing I like is that he usually throws the ball away instead of taking the sack. Which explains his relatively low completion %. Which is another reason why I think he's better than what his QB rating indicates.....
Anderson dropped back to pass 541 times last season, he got sacked 14 times. Do the math, and he only got sacked once every 38.64 dropbacks. I don't care what kind of OL you play behind, that is extraordinary.
It seems to be our doom, but this would top the lot. The kid has had one good year. And we'd be giving up the first overall pick in the freaking draft for him!? Maybe MORE!?!?!?
Why? You could keep quinn on the bench for 3 years the way the packers have done with Rodgers and hope he has a similar start. Believe me if the browns thought so highly of Anderson they wouldn't part with him just to get quinn in. There is no such thing in this legue as too much depth at qb
2nd round, by the Dolphins. We like old QB's entering the draft, we have the market cornered. The Panthers would be the dark horse, as they selected a 29 year old Chris Weinke in the 4th round several years back....
There is no way the 1st overall pick would even be in consideration, unless the Browns also threw in their 1st round pick in addition to some of their mid round picks.
Are you taking his NFL career into consideration? If so that would be terribly unfair to the rest of the Qb crop.
Are you talking about 2008 or 2009? They already threw in their 1st round pick to Dallas last year.
The Packers picked Rodgers because they were under the belief that Favre would retire soon. The Browns traded up for Quinn because QB was a perceived weakness. If Quinn came out a year later, I doubt very seriously the Browns would've even considered trading up to draft Quinn as they could've used those same draft picks on drafting the BPA.
It's not so cut and dry like you make it out to be......
The Browns may be of the opinion that a "1st and 3rd round pick" is more valuable to the team than a backup QB that can play near the same level as their starter. If those draft picks (or draft pick) can be used on a starting player, their starting unit (depending on the position player they pick) should be instantly upgraded.
It was a hypothetical comment. It doens't matter if I was talking about a 1st round pick in '08 (obviously gone) or a 1st round pick in '09 (2nd round value), the point is, they would need to throw in more than just Anderson to equal the value of the 1st overall pick.
Yes I am taking his NFL career into consideration. But if hes a 'one year wonder', how is it unfair? You said there was no evidence he would do well in the future.
I'm just trying to establish his value in relation to draft pick(s)
they want a 1st round pick since they don't have one. good luck with that.
Well, they could get our 2nd round pick which is pretty much a 1st round pick since it will be at #32 because the Patriots lose theirs.
The real deal-breaker imo is going to be the contract. What will Derek Anderson want? Gambling on a 2nd, once again, and hoping that the guy will turn out is one thing. Paying him a ridiculous salary for a number of years based on only 1 year of performance is another.
Because GM's have no idea how any of the QB's in this years draft will fare in the NFL, they have absolutely no track record. Anderson on the otherhand does and it's silly to use his NFL career to back up your argument for trading for him.
Where would Tom Brady go in this draft?
Back in 2000 he was only thought of as a 6th rounder, but knowing what we know now.... Anderson was only a 6th rounder in his draft year, if you used his college career/combine numbers to include him in this draft he would probably be a 6th rounder again.
It's an unfair comparison
I think Brady would go #1. Would you trade the #1 pick for Brady?
The question is a fair one...knowing what you know about Anderson now, where would you draft him in this class? Top 10? Mid first? Late first?
It's an unfair comparison and a silly question.
The fact that he's atleast had some NFL success at a relatively young age over a full 16 game season gives Anderson value.
Example A: Let's say you have a former 1st round pick the same age and similar tools with 400 fewer passing attempts (with moderate success).
Example B: Picked in the 6th round, but has the tool set and measurables to match the QB in example A. He also has a full season under his belt in which he, and his team had very good success.
Hypothetically which would have more value right now? If the tool set and measurables from the QB in example B matched the QB in example A, why did the QB in example A go in round 1 and why did the QB in example B go in round 6? One reason could be the level of competition faced at the collegiate level, another reason could be that the QB in example A was just more polished and was closer to being a starting caliber QB in the NFL. Those would be a couple of reasons why the QB in example A had more value than the QB in example B when entering the NFL draft.
When I look at Derek Anderson, I see a QB that has all the measurables and the tools that you would find out of a 1st round draft pick. The fact he was picked in the 6th round is meaningless given his tool set/measurables, age and the success he has already had at the NFL level.
I know I wouldn't trade any first round picks for DA but I am interested in him. I am not an evaluator so I will have to trust the brass in our organization to make the right decisions here. I did look at DA's stats though and they are interesting. First the games he did really well in seemed to be against bad teams. Thats never a great sign. Lets look at some of his numbers.
The first game DA looked really impressive in was week 2 at Cincy, he had 4 tds and 1 int. with a qb rating of 121.0. Next he had a good game vs. us the Miami Dolphins he threw for 3 tds with 0 ints and a qb rating of 142.5. Then in the very next game he played against the Rams and threw 3 tds and 0 picks with a qb rating of 143.0. Lastly to be fair he had a good game vs. Pitt where he had 3 tds and 0 picks but his completion rating was 45.7 % which was one of his lowest for the season and his qb rating was 83.4, this was a good game but not one of his best expecially because they ended up losing the game. Now the rest of the games he played in against better teams(NE, Sea, Oak, Bal, Hou, Ari, etc,etc..) he threw 15 tds and 18 ints with a qb rating that i am unable to calculate and have no desire to. So Im not saying he's not good but there should be pause and strong evaluation of DA before throwing a 1st rounder for him.
that is all
its not unfair at all.
some people will go and say they wouldn't trade a second round pick for Anderson, but if he was in this years draft pool, he would undoubtedly be drafted in the first or second round.
How else would you evaluate trading a pick for a player?
The only way to do this deal is to trade down and pick up another 1st and other picks, so we can get the kind of linemen that keep guys like Anderson upright, and put guys like Anderson on his rear.
browns dont have a first...they traded t for quinn remember!! even that i hate. anderson is not gonna be good anywhere else. if he goes to another team he will fail