5 reasons Miami SHOULD NOT go after Vincent Jackson

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Colmax, Feb 17, 2010.

  1. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Superiority Complex:confused2:.......:lol:
     
  2. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, I don't care what kind of statistical computing/data analyses are done regarding NFL players. If Austin Collie is ranked above the likes of Brandon Marshall, Percy Harvin, and DeSean Jackson, something is flawed.

    This is basically trying to quantify what appears to be qualitative data, and, IMO, just not reliable (though posed as objective):

    Link: HERE

    This is an asinine way of judging a player's "worth". I prefer to just see what the guy does on the field....
     
  3. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I touched on this earlier; but my argument is, based on Miami's offense, I think Marshall would be a better fit. Of course Jackson is a deep threat, but that is all he is. He is not multi-dimensional like a Marshall.

    I think inevitably Henne will probably get the chance to go downfield more often next year, but until this staff has full faith in Henne (I don't think they do right now), he is going to have to continue to work within the confines of this offense. We are still a running team, number one, regardless of the deep threat.

    My problem is, Jackson can be covered. San Diego used ways to get him open by getting him one-on-one against LBs and smaller CBs. Plenty of his passes were over the middle, and sometimes, defenders are looking for safety help and not getting it. And, hey, the guy is a helluva threat downfield, as most of his passes were caught downfield. I just think that Miami would benefit greater from a guy who can catch shorter routes, but still can go deep (I dubbed Marshall a hybrid-possession earlier because he is not yesterday's "possession" receiver. He can also get by CBs when asked).
     
  4. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    I'll use a very simple stat. Marshall had 47 less yards than Vincent Jackson in 46 more chances. That is incredible.

    It's not qualitative at all. Their stats are all based on play by play data. It basically cuts out garbage yards like getting a 10 yard catch on 3rd and 22 and stuff like that. 3 yards on 1st and 10 are not treated the same as 3 yards on 3rd and 3.
     
  5. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I can see those stats on NFL.com.

    And how can this site take it upon themselves to "cut out garbage" like your example? Maybe that 10 yards benefits the team in field position by helping the punter better pin the other team closer to the goal? The concept (from my reading their explanation) lends itself to a more subjective appearance, which brings up my example. It seems loosely objective, if only by the statistics.

    I might seem way off, but that is what I have gathered.

    With that, I still look at what the guy has done on the field.

    My argument is not that Jackson is bad player. I think he can only benefit this team nominally because he is a deep threat only. But who really knows unless he comes here. I would just prefer he did not.
     
  6. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    It's more thought out than that. If you're interested it is all explained here: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods


    I thin you're underselling Jackson. It's not like he only had 30 catches. He actually had 2 more catches for first downs than Marshall despite catching 33 more passes. I think calling someone only a deep threat implies that they get a few bombs thrown to them every game but Jackson is just a great receiver who catches the ball farther down field than most.
     
  7. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I have already read through it pretty thoroughly and got what I got. It seems that there is some subjective inference with the conclusion of the stats.


    You hit the nail right on the head: "Catches the ball farther down field than most". I know his stats, man. And have looked them over extensively. It's the basis for my argument.

    I am not underselling Jackson, but simply pointing out that he is a one-trick pony. I truly do not think he is right for this offense. I could be wrong, and if he does end up in Miami, I hope I am.

    ** And just to note, Marshall came into this by accident. I never meant to bring Marshall into it, but I guess it is natural to compare. I do prefer Marshall, but never intended this thread to be a Jackson vs Marshall comparison. Never wanted to bring up Marshall because it would be OT for me. I want to discuss my 5 about Jackson.
     
  8. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Depends on what you're looking for. Granted, Marshall is my first choice but we can not overlook or look past whgat jackson would do for us either. jackson's ypc is much higher and hid yac is 3.3 vs marshall's 5.0. 1.7 is 1.7 but not a huge difference. [Nicks' 9.0 is a huge difference] jac was thrown to 105 X and marshall at 149. Drops were 2 for Jac and 8 for marshall and the edge goes to jac, proportionately. Neither fumbled and Jac had a catch ratio of 64.8% while Marshall was at 67.8. 3% is 3% but considering the length of passes each caught, I see this about even. With that said, Jackson might be better for us since he brings what we don't have. marshall brings alot more and a lot better of what we already have. So, the question remains, would Marshall make our other WRs any better than they already are by running the same stuff or would Jackson be better to work the longer routes and free up our guys to better do what they de best? Now, with all that said, the most likely we may land, if any, would be Parcell's guy he drafted in Dallas, Miles Austin. Looking at his #s, I like them as well as Jac's or marshall's. But it's just to ealry to tell what we'll do yet, but i would be happy to have either of these 3 as a Dolphin next year. Either would make our passing game an instant threat. Compared to what it is now at least. ;)
     
  9. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not true. DeSean is the only one lower, and not that much lower.
     
  10. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Maybe.

    But I just think the "Rivers made V. Jackson good" argument goes out the window when he did almost nothing to make Chris Chambers any better. In fact, Chambers regressed in his 2nd year on SD.
     
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  11. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected. I was looking at the DYAR (Defensive-adjusted Yards Above Replacement).

    But as I am reading, it seems that the DYAR complements the DVOA, making (in this instance) the "truer" rating of a player with the system conjured. I think that's why the DYAR is listed before the DVOA? It's a little obscure.....
     
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  12. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That's cool and, for the record, i wasn't trying to call you out about anything. Lord knows I make plenty of mistakes myself. I think we all make "honest mistakes" with these stat sites as it depends on how you have it sorted. I believe when you sort it for the best overall, I even go a bit farther and sort it to the best overall passing, not rushing, to get a truer overall more accurate #, if that is even possible. Other than that, it compiles all the different #s and squeeze out the results. The only other aspect to it is our own eyes and that is why we debate certain things. Everyone knows what the #s are, or can if they care to research them, but you'll see something a bit different in a guy than I might. ;) :knucks:
     
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  13. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    Hey, man, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I have no problem admitting it (except to my fiance'.....but that's an entirely different dynamic :lol:).

    Going into this, I knew there would be some flak, but I am totally open to having someone try to change my perspective. No one has really done that yet, although, I am warming up to the possibility of having a Jackson on the team.

    For some reason (mancrush?), I still feel like Marshall would be the better option. Someone said earlier that he would be an upgrade of the type of receivers we already have. Which might be true, but because of the attention he would garner would give more opportunities to the other guys (who are solid, if unspectacular).

    I am still crossing my fingers on Ted Ginn. As good as Jackson is, he still did not break out until year 4. Some guys take a little while. Maybe with all of the criticism, Ginn gets his head straight? It would be nice to catch teams off-guard with Ginn. Maybe I have a little too much faith he will turn it around?

    I think whomever comes in (I think it's b/w Jackson and Marshall), Miami is going to have to carry the baggage. Marshall seemed to have shut up once he came back, but Jackson still hasn't seemed to grow up. Ugh, maybe Camarillo will have that 1400 yd/12TD year I've been hoping for.....
     
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  14. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    It was funny as hell, wasn't it? :lol:
     

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