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2019 QB Race

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, May 2, 2019.

  1. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying to start Fitzpatrick and then throw Rosen into certain situations in the middle of a game to see if he can handle it? If so, that might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.

    If that's the case you're presenting then he might as well just play from the beginning so he can play into every situation.

    I would like to get your clarification on this.
     
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  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I agree that it's not a one-year audition, but at the same time you do have to get Rosen on the field and let him show his worth. I went thru his highlight reels last season and his talent is clear- he moves in the pocket well and has an excellent arm. What we don't want though is to put him out there behind a horrible line and set him up for failure....so I think his "start date" depends more on the team's progress than anything.

    The only real favor Arizona did for Rosen was trade him...it's interesting to see if they take the same path with Murray.
     
  3. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Highlight reels aren't really that representative. After Rosen was signed I started to peruse through some of his games and my general feeling is that he doesn't read the field that well. As people commented, he doesn't have the pocket presence issues Tannehill had, but Rosen often threw passes as if he didn't see the defender.

    Guy looks like he needs some tutoring, and if that takes more than a year then no I don't think you absolutely need to play him this year.
     
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  4. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    This is exactly where I'm at as well. I realize he is not a rookie but with that mess in Az last year it may as well be his rookie season. While I appreciate the point of view of get him out there right from the beginning I'd like to see him ease into it a bit that let him go B@lls out the rest of the season. It is extremely important to know if he's gonna be the guy or not by the end of this year so the front office can make plans to get Tua or someone else next year. We have to know when the season ends.
     
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  5. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    I disagree. It IS a one year audition. He may be on the team as the backup for a few years after, but they are going to have to make a decision on him at the end of this year or miss out on what ever QB they think the best in the draft is.
     
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  6. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    I think he is saying, like myself, for the 1st few games you bring Rosen in at the end to get him some game time. After that you start him unless he is a total turd. Thats what Shula did with Marino and how it always used to be done. A full season even. Now people are too impatient and have to see everything right now. A little restraint would be a good thing.
     
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  7. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    The only thing sitting impacts for a rookie is his immediate success when he starts. Teams dont just throw guys out there for fun. A lot of time and study has gone into the proper way to groom a QB.

    The implication that Marino would have somehow failed if he started immediately is ridiculous. Not saying you believe that btw, just pointing out how silly the thought is.

    The reality is that Rosen isnt a rookie. He knows what the speed of the game is and this is a one year audition.

    There is 0 chance we go into next season with him penciled in as a starter unless he shows something this year, we will be drafting someone early in this scenario.

    The reps with the first team are going to be more important to establishing chemistry with them than anything on the bench will be.

    Also you run the risk of Fitzpatrick succeeding. What if the team IS in a flow? What if we start off 3-1 or 4-0 in some ridiculous bit of luck? How do you justify what would basically be giving up a season to 52 other players who arent Rosen?
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Well, maybe it's a one year audition to be the long term starter...but I don't think you cut/trade him no matter what since the value would be almost zero. However, if you put him on the practice squad someone would claim him immediately...so I think we're stuck with him on the roaster for better or worse for at least 2-3 years.
     
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  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I completely agree and I probably should have expanded...I watched all of Arizona's highlight reels for each game last season (meaning I saw plenty of picks and sacks too). I agree that he forces some throws that should never leave his hand, but I also saw him running for his life a lot of the time as well. For me personally, it's stupid to put a rookie in that position in the first place. If there's almost zero chance of success, then you keep him on the bench and let him develop thru practice until he's 85-90% ready.

    Personally, I hope he DOESN'T beat out Fitz for the day one start since our line is probably going to be rough this season. I'd rather see that group figure it out first so he has a legit chance while on the field. Then if he fails, you know where your 1st rounder needs to go next year.

    Fitzpatrick has been doing great so far in training camp so far though so I don't think we need to worry about Rosen today. And that's probably the best possible outcome.
     
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  10. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    How do you figure we are stuck? We can cut him with no cap penalty if hes horrible.

    He was never going to be a consideration for the PS. He will either succeed and start or fail and be a backup or cut.
     
  11. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    From that perspective I agree, barring some crazy offer in a trade, Josh Rosen will be a Miami Dolphin til the conclusion of his contract.

    I've said before, I really hope he turns out to be the guy. I would love to go into the draft knowing we already have a franchise Qb on the roster and can spend all that draft capital we acquired for other positions.
     
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  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I meant "stuck" in that he won't bring a 2nd round pick from a 3rd team. He's easily the most cap-friendly QB in the league though and if he actually starts, the value would be through the roof. So there's really no reason to cut him and if you can't trade him either, then he'll be a Dolphin until the end of his contract. That's all I meant.
     
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  13. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    I realize this isn't the most popular opinion, but I believe we should give the job to Fitz at least for the first 4 games, unless Rosen outright wins it in camp.

    We can’t forget that these players are real humans and not machines. Last season Rosen was thrown to the wolves and it may have shaken his confidence a bit.

    As other have already said, by starting the season with Fitzpatrick, Rosen has a chance to get more comfortable in the offense while the kinks (OL gelling, receivers knowing their routes, etc) get sorted out without having to put his body on the line in that meantime.
     
  14. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Not sure sitting him will be a confidence boost though. As far as comfort in the offense, that will have to come from the coaching. If they feel he has absorbed it well enough, he starts. If not, he doesn't. If he hasn't though, that would be concerning - he's not a rookie. He's not dumb. He should be able to get the offense down decently enough to claim a starting job, doubly so if he is taking first team reps in practice. And again, the defenses in the first quarter of the season tend to play from behind and be much more vanilla than the offenses early in the season.

    While it's certainly possible he doesn't start, it would be a big concern as a fan. Sitting him this year (for whatever number of games one wants to say) doesn't really do much to bring him along or boost his confidence.
     
  15. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    I disagree that it would be concerning if he doesn’t have the offense down pat by week one yet. Even veterans take a while to master a new offense, so it shouldn’t be surprising if a second year QB doesn’t either. Also, I think this board vastly underrates Fitzpatrick, he is no slouch. Again, this would be a way to preserve Rosen and get him to learn with a vet running the show early in the season while there are still kinks to be worked out.

    But, like I said, if Rosen is the clear winner in training camp and preseason, then by all means, give him the starting job right away. I only think Fitz should start the first few games if it’s a close race, whereas most people think the opposite: if it’s close, start Rosen, and some even think that we should start Rosen no matter what, which is what I’m arguing against.
     
  16. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    Like it or not Fitzpatrick kicked our azz damn near every time he played against us. He is a streaky QB, but can win you a few games when he is on a roll.

    After watching more of Rosen last year what I really see is a rookie qb making rookie qb mistakes on a bad team. I still think you start Fitzpatrick for a few games and bring Rosen in late for some seasoning. Turn it all over to Rosen and let him start the last 10 or 11 games. Treat it like his rookie season. Thats the way it used to be done and you can hold up Mahomes as a great example why that is the right approach. I don't care how many wins or loses we have this year as long as we can tell at the end if Rosen is the guy or not. 10 or 11 full games of tape is enough to know. If we take our time up front the payoff should be far greater.
     
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  17. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what I don't want. Ryan Fitzpatrick winning games for the Miami Dolphins this season has no benefit to this teams future.
     
  18. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    Agreed. I just don't feel there is anything to benefit by putting Rosen out there early in the season. Ultimately I could care less what our record is as long as we don't go winless. The only way I will support Rosen starting game 1 is if by the end of Preseason there is no question he is the guy or God forbid an injury problem.
     
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  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The benefit is not having Fitz win a few games, making it harder to start Rosen AND hurting our draft pick. We know Fitz isn't the long term answer, au we absolutely have to evaluate Rosen AND keep our draft pick as high as possible in case Rosen shows he's not the guy. So you wouldn't want to be 4-0 and then trying to bring in Rosen. Even 3-1 or 2-2 might be challenging to bring in Rosen. I really don't see any benefit to starting Fitz. I mean, if we draft a QB in 2020, the oline isn't probably gonna be drastically different than it is this year. So if Rosen bombs cause he can't work behind a **** oline, then we'll have a rookie. Are we gonna sit him until we have a line?
     
  20. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I think the idea that you learn better on the bench as opposed to in the game is tenuous at best.
     
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  21. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think it's the idea of learning better but, more the factor of developing the cockiness. Marino had the cockiness. Anybody that met him at a private function would agree that he would talk down his nose at you. Rosen had that last season. He was visibly miffed that he was picked tenth instead of first overall. He was going to show everybody that they made a mistake.
    He lost some of that swagger in Arizona and really needs to get it back. Sitting and learning from Fitz is not a bad idea. No pressure.
    "I can do that." will make way for "I can do that better." I want him to be chomping at the bit to come in and play.
     
  22. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    if he isn't already chomping at the bit to come in and play we wasted a pick. You build swagger from being on the field and doing impressive things, not sitting behind Ryan Fitzpatrick. Perhaps it might put a chip on his shoulder. It might also work the other way and demoralize.

    He's not a rookie, he doesn't need to get used to the speed of the game or anything of that nature. He needs to play. And frankly, this is about as low pressure a situation as he will get, week 1 on a team nobody expects to succeed at any point this season. Get out there and show someone up.
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    From listening to all the player interviews it seems as though Fitz is winning them over with his personality.
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don’t see why your opinion should be unpopular. The job should belong to whoever is ahead until they lose it. The players have made it clear Fitzpatrick is ahead for now. That could change.
     
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  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Well yeah. No player is going into the season planning on losing. The players don't give a **** about next year's draft pick. They don't care about figuring out Rosen to prepare for next year, if Fitz is balling in camp they'll gravitate to him. They will naturally gravitate towards the guy that gives them the best chance to win now. Even if it's not the best thing for the long term health of the team.
     
  26. The Guy

    The Guy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That probably depends on a player's contract situation and whether he perceives himself as a long-term member of the team. Xavien Howard, for example, probably wants what's best for the team's longer-term future.

    All of this player personnel stuff is tricky. You need a critical mass of players who feel beholden to the team and its future, but if those players don't work out then you're in cap hell.
     
  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm saying I don't believe any player, in general, is ok with losing now to win later. So, if they are looking at starting a veteran who is charismatic and gets you the chance to win now, or a second year guy who struggled in year one, most players don't care about figuring out if Rosen has IT, so we know what we need to do in 2020. They don't care about that. I mean, they might care on some level, but I don't think it eclipses the player's desire to win now.
     
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  28. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    If Fitzpatrick wins the job because he's acts silly and has a funny looking beard then they aren't heading in the right direction.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Yeah I'm sure that will be the reason.
     
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