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2019 MLB Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Unlucky 13, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Losing Stroman and Thor didn't help though. The BVW experiment is an interesting one.

    Any thoughts about potential new ownership?
     
  2. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    If you're a fan of the Mets and Fins, you might get J Lo as part owner of both teams, so that's cool. :drool:
     
  3. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Good list. Loved wright so always happy to see non Mets fans appreciate him. Hated J Roll but good player.

    I’m not going to be very particular with my OF spots because frankly I can’t say I’ve ever had a favorite LF and because the 3 I chose could work in any alignment defensively. I’d probably go with (excluding Mets):
    C Victor Martinez (Cleveland version...won many fantasy championships for me)
    1B Votto
    2B Ian Kinsler
    SS Jeter (it’s probably sacrilege to some Mets fans but he played the game right)
    3B Arenado
    OF Griffey Jr (End of career still falls in the 20 year window and I’m just not leaving my favorite non Met and best payer I’ve ever watched off the list)
    OF Trout
    OF Vlad
     
  4. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    BVW...Ilike the way he drafts to be honest but his trades (aside from JD Davis) and FA signings have been miserable failures. Traded 2 top 100 prospects (Anthony Kay and Simeon Woods Richardson) for like 10 starts of Stroman Who you knew was going to be a PITA to resign and frankly I don’t want him. Already covered Kelenic/Cano+Diaz a 100x so my feelings that it’s trash are well known

    As for ownership: Having A rod anywhere near the team would just be cruel and unusual punishment so can’t have J- Lo either. My preference all along has been Cohen...he’s local, grew up a Mets fan and willing to spend. I know he had some shady business dealings but was approved by mlb already so it’s clean enough. The guy who is part owner of the Philadelphia Flyers is supposedly interested and would be my 2nd choice. Basically all I’m asking for is no arod, no Wilpons, no Dolan, no other jabroni losers please.

    With J lo comes a Rod....hard pass.
     
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  5. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2905387-win-win-mlb-trade-predictions-2-weeks-from-2020-deadline

    While I enjoy reading a well put together article on potential trades and speculation, when the writer has a really poor understanding of the teams and which players are important, it becomes silly. This guy suggests that the Cubs trade Brailyn Marquez, who's their best starting pitcher prospect since Mark Prior, (and a 21 year old lefty to boot) for a rental reliever. He's also their only starting pitching prospect anywhere close to the majors with a chance to be an impact player at the top level.

    If the Cubs were to trade Marquez for a proven all star, like they did when they sent Gleyber Torres to the Yankees for Chapman to win the WS a few years ago, it would still be a highly questionable move. And after sending Torres, Jorge Soler, and Eloy Jimenez away in desperation deals over the last few years, Cubs fans are pretty much over it.
     
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  6. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    True but that’s your fault for expecting more then stupidity and pure speculation from bleacher report lol
     
  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    They used to be better than they have been lately. Its really the only free website that puts out news and information pieces daily anymore, after most of the others have died.
     
  8. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Has nothing to do with this season, but how do you think players like Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, basically any really old or fairly old time players, would hold up to the game today if they were active.

    Assuming someone plucked them straight out of history in their prime, and the had a full spring training in the modern day.

    Do you think the stars of the past could compete?
     
  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I think that in most other major sports other than baseball, the answer would be an easy and clear no. No way could NFL players even from the 70s or maybe even the 80s play in today's game, for example, let alone decades before that. With possible exceptions at maybe receiver or some running backs.

    However, baseball is a different animal, and hitting the baseball is a skill and talent by itself that doesn't require super human size, speed or strength to accomplish. And so I do think that some, but probably not all, of those HOF players from those days could probably come in and play in today's game. They might not be as great, but they could probably still hit and field. Pitching is a different story, but I bet that guys could make it work.
     
  10. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Absolutely. They were more fundamentally sound and fewer teams = more stacked teams. Especially with a sport like baseball where athleticism doesn’t matter and players were more durable then
     
  11. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    That is true, but I feel like the mental aspect of the game has come a long way. I dont doubt their physical ability in most cases, but I'm wondering without extensive prep time would they be able to adjust to that part of today's game?

    Also, for all their natural ability, workout programs and such have improved a lot. There are more guys in absolute peak physical form out there. Though obviously some guys arent very fit so I'm not sure what impact that has.
     
  12. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    If guys like Cecil and Prince Fielder, David Wells and CC Sabathia were able to have long careers in the last 30 years some aspects havent changed that much.

    The mental aspects and prep time I’m not worried because given modern advantages they would adapt. And they’d probably crap all over half these guys. These no way...none....that you’re gonna tell me Mays, Mantle, Seaver, Koufax etc couldnt play against today’s competition. The pitcher durability especially would be a tremendous advantage

    what you’re leaving out is that the overall quality of the game imo has declined. It’s declined in my lifetime from the mid 80’s til now imo. I could only imagine how my dad in his 70s feels
     
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  13. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I dont believe they couldnt compete necessarily, I was just curious how others felt given the way other sports have changed.
     
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  14. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Not all change is better.
     
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  15. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bringing those guys back would make baseball much better. Hank Aaron broke the home run record yet never struck out much. None of the great hitters back then struck out much. Hitters then would be embarrassed if they struck out 100 times or more in a season. Somehow they didn't need to worry about launch angle BS. They took pride in doing things like bringing in a runner from third with less than two outs. Hank was talking about it on a Braves broadcast the other day. I could listen to him talk baseball all day long. Greatest player of all time who is still living today. Players had more of a focus on putting the ball in play. More balls in play equals more action in the field and on the bases which equals a better paced and more entertaining game IMHO.

    The biggest challenge IMO for hitters from past eras would be that pitchers now are getting better at locating fastballs up in the zone with more precision. Overall have the pitchers gotten better, sure, I guess. But they're primarily just taking advantage of the change in approach from most batters. Also those hitters would abuse shifts because they wouldn't go up to the plate with today's mentality of, "I don't get paid to hit singles, I get paid to hit bombs."
     
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  16. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Could you just plug an old-timer into a modern lineup and expect success? No way. Could an old-timer who started his career in modern times be trained and brought up to be successful? I think so. The base talent is still there, it's just translating it to face much better modern hitters and pitchers.
     
  17. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Your post makes one believe that Willie Mays or Hank would need serious retraining. Players of less talent may differ. But the elite guys and all star types....They absolutely could jump in and be as good if not better imo. Pitchers today are not as good and you have maybe 2 real good starters per team. The 3/4/5 guys mostly would have been bullpen guys when there were half the teams...they’d wreck those guys. The biggest adjustment would be the over-specialization with the relievers. I firmly believe that
     
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  18. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I think it possible they could be serviceable just based on their innate talent, but stars? No. Stars have to hit the good pitchers and come up big against a parade of relievers throwing heat. The players now are just better. I know it's tangential, but you guys have mentioned the lack of things like hitting for average, small ball, putting it in play vs the big shot. I feel that in part it's because pitching is so good - even good hitters struggle to hit with the kind of consistency guys in the 70s, 80s and 90s could manage.

    The NFL is the most obvious league, where yesterdays DL are today's linebackers or safeties. But it's there in baseball too. Today's elite athletes are on a different level than those from the past. I think if you dropped a 15 year old Mantle or Hayes back into 2010, you might be getting an elite guy. But just snatching them direct at their peak and stuffing them into the cleanup spot? I wouldn't bet on it.

    I will say that either way, it would be fun as hell to see. Gerritt Cole or Mad Max going up against Babe Ruth and Ted Williams? Yes please. Sandy Koufax and Satchel Paige taking the mound against Mike Trout or Ronald Acuna. Bring it on. :up:
     
  19. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I'm very much on board with you. Today's game can be unbearable to watch sometimes, and its not hard to see why young people are tuning out. I was watching a Cubs game earlier this week when in the 7th inning, they were leading 6-2, but had only put four balls in play! Not four hits, four in play is just the kind of stuff that makes me pull my hair out. Walks, strikeouts and home runs.

    In days gone by, Cubs teams couldn't take a walk and it would come back to bite them sometimes, but they put the ball in play a ton and the games were so much more fun to watch. Now, they're exceptional at taking walks, and its a snoozefest.
     
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  20. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Today’s players are not better. They’re over trained in areas of specialization. You would hate the Mets broadcast with Keith Hernandez And Darling just picking out details even all star types like Alonso and Syndergaard miss. And that was prevalent even during Reyes and Wright primes. Only Jake does no wrong.

    Also, athleticism doesn’t matter in baseball. As long as a player can hit field and think. And not be a spaz on the bases.
     
  21. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Well, athleticism matters. It just matters the same as it did 20, or 50, or 100 years ago. A guy isn't going to be an elite center fielder or short stop without being highly athletic. And it obviously comes in big when you're going to try to turn a single into a double, score from second on a single, or try to steal 50 bases.
     
  22. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not the heat IMO. The hitters have changed their approach. It's all about elevating the ball now. The pitchers are getting better at locating high heat, which is tough for any hitter, but especially tough when you're trying to get a certain launch angle on the ball. I saw something on Twitter a few months back and I want to say it was from Josh Donaldson. He advised kids to ignore any coaches who tell them things like "stay on top of the ball" when batting. His reasoning being that he made his millions from hitting bombs, not ground balls. It sums up perfectly what's going wrong. It's why everybody's favorite team seems to strand a million runners on base these days.

    There is no doubt in my mind the elite hitters of the past would maintain that elite level of performance. Give them a few games to adjust to the higher average velocities and they'd be good to go. Hitting is still fundamentally the same and their approach in the batter's box would be far superior to most of the guys doing it now.
     
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  23. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    It makes me just hope and pray that some team, whoever it is, has a year where they have a ton of success playing the older style a win a ton of games, and then most of the league pivots back, realizing that its the smarter thing to do.
     
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  24. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    That wouldn't be a realization, it'd be an exception. The whole analytics deal shows it's a more efficient (smarter) to play the way they are. It'd be like a team in the NBA trying to win by ignoring the 3-pt line.
     
  25. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    But with basically all 30 teams employing the analytic method, its just boring as hell. Its like if NFL teams only ran up the middle or threw deep bombs all game long, with a low completion percentage. If this was what baseball was when I was younger, I wouldn't have become a fan.
     
  26. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    It can be smarter and a less appealing product to watch. I think Lucky is right to feel that way. The action occurs mostly when the ball is in play.
     
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  27. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    This is partially why the league needs to cut down on dead time with batters fiddling with their junk and pitchers leisurely meandering around the mound, along with bigger gaps like manager visits, pitcher changes, commercial breaks, etc. With less ball in play movement and action, they need to at least keep the pitcher-batter duel moving.

    Wouldn't be surprising to see the NFL head this way as it undergoes the analytical revolution that has happened to other sports already. One could argue that today's passing attacks are the current result, but I don't think it's as concrete as the NBA and MLB have seen.

    Anyway, trade deadline is starting to heat up. There were LOTS of predictions of a tepid deadline with the wacky year, but there have been a decent number of middling type moves including the Cubs snagging and underrated DH bat to deploy against lefties in Jose Martinez. Big names in discussion include Mike Clevinger of the Indians, Lance Lynn and Joey Gallo of the Rangers. I think the fact that these dudes have control beyond this season will play a part in keeping the deadline moving, as teams can make a run in this flukey season while also being loaded for hopefully a more regular one in 2021.
     
  28. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I absolutely fear that the NFL is making changes of its own that are making the game just as unappealing in its own way as what's happened in baseball. Not for the exact same reasons at this point, but ugly changes none the less that make me want to watch it less. I already watch about 20% as much college football as I did ten years ago. My fingers are crossed that something happens to save the NFL from the same fate.
     
  29. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    As far as trades go, that one was about as cheap as it can get for the Cubs. PTBNL or maybe cash. We'll see if it pans out. The bats are streaky and entirely dependant on the long ball every game, and the bull pen is garbage. Hard to feel confident no matter what their record is. They could face a team with a losing record in the playoffs and still get swept.
     
  30. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Players taking time between pitches always has been part of the game. There’s no real way to eliminate that. Baseball is a slow, strategy based game and some people just need to get over it. There’s only but so much you can change about it.

    As far as trades go, Lindor is the biggest name I’ve heard but he’s having a bad year. JD Martinez is also on the block I’ve heard. Hoping the Mets are sellers not buyers as it would be a mistake to further deplete a mediocre farm system that generally has been producing good players when they produce anything.
     
  31. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Clevinger to SD. 1st big trade of the day
     
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  32. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Padres as surprise contenders. Third best record in the NL right now.
     
  33. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    This would have been exciting news five years ago. He was fairly solid for the Yankees last season in limited work though, so we'll see how it goes. The Cubs will be his 12th MLB club in 13 seasons.
     
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  34. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Mets just brought back Todd Frazier and Added Robinson charinos which makes sense since our backup C Tomas Nido has Covid
     
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  35. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Some time sure, that's just part of the game. But some players (both pitchers and hitters) take it to extremes. It just kills the momentum of the game and feels painful to sit through. When I was going to AAA games, they were testing out the pitch clock and it seemed to work pretty well. Most players didn't have issues, and the games moved at a good pace. I believe they rolled with a 20 second clock.

    Personally, I've always appreciated the pitchers who love to dig in and just get to work.

    Mets made a few moves, not big ones. I like Chirinos though he has lost a bit lately. I got to see him play in Round Rock for awhile.

    They really played par for the course here with cheap bench and bullpen upgrades. I doubt it moves the needle much - they have a good core, but I don't see them outpacing the Dodgers or the new-look Pads for that matter. More on level with the Rockies and depleted Braves squad. Braves are a big loser imo, they needed punch and didn't do anything but watch the Marlins of all teams get stronger.

    The Rangers not dealing Lynn was also a big surprise and a big failure.
     
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  36. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    I can go with a pitch clock but it’s just the nature of the game that it’s slow. It’s not basketball or hockey where the game just flows. Each pitch is its own individual event. I like it when the game has some flow also.

    I didn’t mind getting Charinos; as I said it was a need because we really don’t have a backup C at the moment. Frankly I like his defense better then Ramos at all even if he won’t exactly bring back memories of Piazza Carter or even Hundley or Lo Duca. I didn’t love adding Miguel Castro for Kevin Smith (our #12 prospect who had our 2nd best FIP). Charinos and Frazier have team options for next year and Castro I think is FA in 2023.

    I was kinda hoping we disabled BVW’s trading privileges with new ownership on the horizon soon with some luck (looks like it’s going to be Steve Cohen thankfully). Was happy it’s not lightning rod...he already ticked off Manfred by contacting Jeff Luhnow.

    Also Lynn is under contract for next year. Smart move by Texas not dealing Lynn. He’s had a rebirth to his career and they’ll need pitching next year.
     
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  37. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The problem with the Rangers is that they suck and need a real rebuild. Lynn pitching for them isn't doing anything, whereas he is pretty much at apex value right now. Rangers have a bad team and a bad ML system. Jon Daniels did the same thing with Mike Minor last year (not trading him at peak value, betting on a weak team to bail him out, losing the bet, then trading at low value) that he is now pulling with Lynn. My local team, the Tigers, also did something very similar in failing to trade Michael Fulmer, but he then got a nasty injury (thoracic maybe) and lost all value. Then they watch Matt Boyd finally show signs of being an ace, but fail to trade him off a bad team, then watch him turn into a pumpkin for the second half of 2019 and now 2020.

    IMO pitchers are just too injury prone and regression prone to hang onto when a team is bad. Reinvest that talent into controllable youth.
     
  38. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Boyd’s been good after a tough start with a 3.52 era his last few starts. Lynn is cheap, he’s going to have value regardless but not the kind of value that gets you that big time prospect. The same can be said for Boyd. So I can’t really say I blame either GM for not selling for marginal C or B prospects.
     
  39. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Yeah, and Lynn is still signed next year, so they can always trade him in the offseason if they get a better offer.
     
  40. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Hard to see them getting a better offer in the offseason when he has less control available to the trading team though. Also, more chances for regression, which is exactly what happened to Mike Minor.

    I haven't followed the Rangers super close since I left Texas, but since the Ron Washington World Series era, Jon Daniels has consistently failed to field a good team. He's made some good moves, but also lots of questionable and bad ones. He's a guy that really needs to be on the hot seat.

    It'll be fun to see what the Padres can accomplish - AJ Preller was definitely on the hot seat and dude came out swinging this year. I don't think they stack up unfavorably to the Dodgers. If Paddack can get himself going back to last years earlier season ace level stuff, they are a real contender.
     

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