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2017 MLB Season Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Unlucky 13, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I'll never suggest to anyone that they should give up their fandom due to the people who are currently running the team. Love the colors. Love the logo. Love the history, the stadium, ect. Don't let some temporary front office people or management ruin it for you. There's always tomorrow, and the odds are that you'll still be there when they're gone.
     
  2. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Anyone that thinks that Jeter traded Stanton to the Marlins because he used to be a Yankee is crazy. Stanton held the Marlins up and rejected two previous trades to the Cardinals and Giants, which was in his right since he had a full NTC. The Dodgers apparently made an offer but wanted the Marlins to take on more money from Stanton's contract and take some of the Dodger's bad contracts too.
     
  3. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    So crazy that Jeter in fact has been offered to buy a piece of the NYY. Maybe not so crazy....
     
  4. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    So you honestly think Jeter traded Stanton to the Yankees just to help them out?
     
  5. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Not just to help them out but i dont believe in coincidences. The Yanks were probably willing to take back more money then anyone else which explains why the package they got back was so incredibly weak. And Stanton did have a NTC with only 4 teams hed go to. Problem is theres only a handful of teams who would willingly absorb most/all of that money. The Marlins are 400M in debt and only have to absorb 30M from the Yankees. The Dodgers offer was less absorbed money supposedly. In the end unless the Dodgers or Red Sox stepped up or Stanton accepted a deal to a team not on his 4 teams that hed willingly accept a deal to, it was always likely to be the NYY because of money. I just find an incredible conflict of interest there.
     
  6. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I don't see how there's a conflict of interest at all, the Yankees were the only team left to make a deal with. Stanton rejected two previous trades with the Cardinals and Giants. The Dodgers did make an offer but like you noted didn't want to take on as much money as the Yankees did and the Dodgers wanted Miami to take back some of their bad contracts. No other team but the Yankees stepped up and were willing to take $260 million off of their books. You said it yourself the Marlins are 400 million in debt and promised their investors that they would cut payroll so keeping Stanton wasn't an option either.The Astros, Cubs and Red Sox have all come out and said taking on that much salary wouldn't have made sense for their clubs so really who else was left?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  7. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Of course it’s a conflict of interest. The guy is going to be inducted wearing pinstripes after playing 20 years with an organization and gives away the NL MVP for pennies on the dollar to his former team, which is one of less then a handful that can absorb such a large contract. This, after last week when Jeter basically gave Stanton an ultimatum to either accept a deal to St Louis or SF or he would bench him. He’s either got incredibly poor management skills or set it up to make it look that way so he could deal him to the Yankees imo.
     
  8. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    This isn't some big conspiracy here, the Yankees were literally the only team that was willing to take on the salary from Stanton's contract and a team Stanton would agree to go to. These were the 2 key pieces to making any trade involving Stanton. If there were multiple teams that lined up and had offers to get Stanton and Jeter choose to take a lesser package from the Yankees just because then we could have a real discussion. Otherwise I don't know what exactly you were expecting the Marlins do here. The owners promised their investors they were going to dump salary, there was no way they were going to keep Stanton. So the return was always going to be salary relief first and players second. Dumping the salary was more important to the Marlins then actually getting players back. Go back and look at all the big salary dump trades in the last 4 or 5 years, the more money the acquiring team is taking on the lesser the player packages are. The return shouldn't be surprising based on the history of these types of deals, so the amount of money the Yankees were taking back they were never going to give up their top prospects. If you were expecting the Marlins to land a prospect package similar to what the White Sox got for the Sale trade for example then I don't know what to tell you.
     
  9. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    I understand that, its just a really stupid way to run a franchise. If they were losing money, which they were, a few years ago why in world would you back yourself in to a corner by signing a guy to a massive contract? Using that as an excuse for a piss poor return shouldnt fly with Marlins fans. Sadly, im starting to think baseball there is just not sustainable if they cant turn a profit.

    Secondly, the dodgers made an offer with better and cheaper players. I wasnt expecting them to get a Sale like return but more then the crap they got isnt an unreasonable expectation. Part of its their own fault as they backed themselves in to a corner but part of it is definitely suspicious looking.
     
  10. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    You're talking about two different things though. It's not the new ownerships fault that Loria signed Stanton to a poor contract. Everyone at the time the contract was signed said that there was no way Stanton would be a Marlin by the end of the contract just with the way it was structured between the opt outs and how it was heavily back loaded. The new ownership group wanted to rid themselves of the bad contracts they inherited, so I don't really have an issue with them just dumping Stanton. The real question is what do they plan on doing with that payroll deduction.

    The Dodgers' offer also reportedly had the Marlins taking back some of their bad contracts in the deal (Scott Kazmir and Brandon McCarthy were two names rumored in the deal) which the Marlins rejected since between those contracts and the money they were sending to the Dodgers to offset some of Stanton's salary they would be paying more than what they paid the Yankees. This was all about reducing their debt, getting talent back was secondary.

    There's nothing suspicious looking about this deal other than Derek Jeter was a part of it and he used to play for the Yankees. Otherwise you can say that about Sandy Alderson, for example, any time he makes a trade with the A's or Padres.
     
  11. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Stanton said jeter threatened to make him a marlin for life if he didnt waive his NTC, gee thanks jeter, you make it sound like playing for our organization is like keeping a jew in auschwitz.

    Stanton also said jeter isnt looking to add, hes looking to subtract. Stanton said “guaranteed losing seasons are coming” for Miami and that Jeter has no structure or plan in place on how to improve the team.

    Marlins payroll was near the middle to bottom of the league, and they had a great lineup already and theyre looking to trade yelich and ozuna.
     
  12. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    And there goes the best remaining player, Ozuna to the cards for garbage. Please jeter get the hell out of Miami
     
  13. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Yuck. Now I'm angry at the Marlins for giving the Cardinals a weapon for scraps.
     
  14. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Lol redsox fans thought they would get ozuna. So long as jeter is here you wont be getting any marlins players. We are the farm system extension for the Yankees.
     
  15. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    I’m boycotting the marlins. The astros are fun to watch in the meantime.

    Jeter is a yankee at heart. He’ll never forget 2003.
     
  16. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Seriously 400M in debt....just fold the ****ing franchise if they’re going to be a disgrace like that. I realize that’s not insurmountable for a pro sports franchise in a major sport but when it leads to giving away your best asset for scraps thereby making the team irrelevant for what is likely to be at least 5 years...that’s just ridiculous.

    I feel bad saying that because the Marlins have accomplished more in terms of winning titles then my Mets have the last few decades but it’s got to suck knowing your team isn’t even trying.
     
  17. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Micky Arison offered to take in the debt, buy the franchise and add talent. What could have been.
     
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  18. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    http://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/cu...on-russell-for-manny-machado-blockbuster-deal

    ESPN Cubs writer Jesse Rodgers floats an interesting idea that the Cubs should offer Baltimore SS Addison Russell for Manny Machado. Machado is the better hitter, but he's going into the last year of his contract and they may not be able to retain him. Russell meanwhile is only 23 and is under team control for four more seasons, is an All Star himself, and one of the best defensive infielders in all of baseball.

    With the Cubs clearly contending right now, taking the risk that Machado may or may not resign after 2018 is worth the risk, and I agree. And the idea of resigning him and then also adding Bryce Harper as a free agent the next offseason is something that would make me laugh like a supervillian.
     
  19. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    So why the heck didnt he get the franchise???!!! :huh:
     
  20. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah seriously, why the hell didn’t Mickey get it? That man should’ve had dibs.
     
  21. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    He was rejected by Loria.

    Most sports teams always work together, its good for branding and great marketing.

    The Marlins never had a good relationship with the dolphins nor Heat. Even when they shared the stadium in miami gardens.
     
  22. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    So competency isnt allowed by the Marlins ownership. Good to know my Mets arent the only team that hates their fans in MLB.
     
  23. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Realmuto asked for a trade. Rumor has it Yelich could be next also.
     
  24. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    Le Batard was questioning the commissioner who basically said we should shut up because we have 2 World Series titles.
     
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  25. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Sandy Alderson gets a contract extension....why? Guy has spent half his life in this game and has 0 WS titles because he won’t spend money. Great at trades, great at scouting and farm systems, bum at making a big time move in free agency or landing a big fish type trade (I.e. Stanton, hasn’t pursued Machado or Donaldson)... ugh. He better get Degrom resigned and not piss away Degrom and Syndergaards cheap years. They’re about to become a lot more expensive.
     
  26. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Yea, i saw that . i thought selig was bad, this guy is a bigger POS
     
  27. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Not saying that Alderson is great, or deserved an extension. But, the spending comes from the owners, right? I read a big piece just the other day about how Mets ownership is among the worst and cheapest in MLB, and that they don't care about putting a winning team onto the field and only lining their own pockets.

    Alderson is their employee. If he's doing exactly what they tell him to do, then thats why they gave him the extension. If I were a Met fan, I would be praying that they can draft really well and get lucky in a few trades. They've also had some horrific luck with injuries that should even out eventually.
     
  28. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Im not just talking about mlb payroll, theyre not even using their international money. But since you brought it up, every organization sets budgets. The GM then goes to ownership and makes his case for the player. I dont expect the Mets to spend like the NYY, thats not reasonable. But this is NY, they do draw 3M fans a year and the team is supported well. So the questions are:
    Why do the Mets owners hate their fans so much?
    What took so long to overhaul the medical staff (GM responsibility)?
    Does rehiring Omar Minaya as special asst to GM mean hes back after this extension from Alderson? Minaya was the GM who discovered much of this roster including Harvey, Degrom, Familia, Lagares, etc while Alderson has done his best work in trades for Thor, Wheeler (Beltran), Yoenis, Walker (for lol Jon Niese) and Addison Reed. Aldersons FA signings have been bad at best. Minayas background in scouting and ability to close deals in FA (Beltran, Pedro Martinez) compliments Aldersons ability to kill it in trades.

    Still boggles me though how a major market team has a mid market payroll. The Coupons need to step it up or get out and sell the team.
     
  29. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    The Cubs and Kris Bryant agreed to a record 10.85m contract for a player in his first year of arbitration eligibility. As Bryant has three more arb years after that too, its a safe bet he'll continue to set the bar every season from 2019-2021 as well.

    The team now has payroll commitments of around 142m for the 2018 season with all players under contract except for RP Justin Grimm and the players who are not yet arb eligible. They should have plenty of flexibility left to sign another SP should they choose.
     
  30. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Mets made an astute signing in Bruce at 3-39M as he had a very good run in NY and has shown himself to be a good locker room guy (Callaway liked him in Cleveland) who can play an ok RF and a little 1B as needed. Speaking of 1B a low risk signing on Adrian Gonzalez for the league minimum wasn’t bad.

    I don’t like spending 9.2 in arb on AJ Ramos or even 3.4 on Darnaud especially for a team that complains so much about payroll. But Degrom for 7.4 is a steal and Harvey at 5.6 is a 1 year lottery ticket. I forget what Thor got but it’s one of the biggest bargains in the league.
     
  31. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Crappy week to be a Pirates fan. Traded Cole to the Astros and now McCutchen to the Giants. At least they got a good return for Cole.
     
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  32. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Good week to be a Cubs fan, though, lol. Between the Pirates and Reds, that might be the two worst teams in the NL in the Central now. Nice of them to cooperate during the Cubs best window to take another title. They have a chance to win a third straight divisional title for the first time since 1906-08.
     
  33. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    It gets better, Josh Harrison wants out as well from Pitt. Someone needs to remind them it’s its never a good idea to go full Marlins :001_rolleyes:
     
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  34. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Yelich wants out, give us your lowest offers everybody, jeter will likely accept. Any bad players you dont want on your team? Jeter will take them and give you a nice outfielder with a great bat.
     
  35. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Polanco wants out too, he gave a facepalm emoji on instagram in response to MLB’s annoucement of cutch being traded.
     
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  36. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    No need for Yelich, but give me Realmuto and Starlin Castro for the Mets.
     
  37. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I wish good things for Starlin.....in the AL!
     
  38. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    David Wright was one of my all time favorite players, at least in my time as a big MLB fan the last 30 years or so. Terrific in both the field and at the plate for many years, and seemingly a really good guy. Absolutely the kind of player I want on my team.

    However, he apparently still isn't going to retire, despite barely playing since 2014, and not really playing well since 2013. At 35, I think that its time for him to step away, but the Mets still owe him 47 million dollars, and I'm guessing that the parties aren't going to come to some sort of agreement where he gets paid to retire, as other teams have done with their injured former stars.
     
  39. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Wrights been paid through insurance the last few years as his spinal Stenosis is not going away. Despite having played only 75 vames the last 3 years combined hes been quoted recently as saying he wont retire until doctors say his comeback attempt will damage his quality of life after baseball. Which of course is why we (Met fans) all love D Wright. I agree its time to step away but hes basically Mr Met and theyre going to allow him to try and come back.
     
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  40. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Chipper Jones, Jim Thome, Vlad Guerrero, and Trevor Hoffman all elected to the HOF. Good group.

    No arguments other then Johan Santana falling off the ballot is BS. His stats including ERA+ (From 03-08), are comparable to the 6 year run Koufax had minus the rings. Taking each run in to account, Koufax had some decided advantages, including a higher mound and Johan pitching in a hitter era. But during that 6 year run, Johans stats dwarf everyone else’s including Halliday, Pedro, Johnson, etc. Can’t agree with the lack of logic on that.
     
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