It happened as often as Tannehill just taking sacks that he didn't have to...yet I don't see you complaining about people labeling him as having poor pocket presence. Frankly, it probably happened more. I could get on board with the idea that Tannehill needs to be better at calling protections, but I'm not sure he was actually blitzed as much as people think. I know that he didn't have a whole lot of time, at all, to maneuver in his "pocket."
Here's an interesting chart from PFF. On plays with NO BLITZ and WITH PRESSURE, Tannehill took 30 sacks, and the average time it took pressure to get to him was 2.5 seconds. Tannehill also had the highest depth of target on blitzes, throwing like 13.5 yards, in the league. https://pff-pffanalysisltd12.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/vs-No-Blitz-Pressure-2.png
Yeah, DJ, because that an accurate representation of what I've said. But, we disagree...You want Tannehill deciding before the snap that he's not running the called play, but is going to take off and run right after the snap, you've said that before. Check out that PFF chart. It backs up what I've been saying for months, and I've never seen it until today.
Yeah, that is the exact description I think of when I see your name. LOL 30 of those sacks came with NO BLITZ, and pressure starting at 2.5 seconds. Response?
Do i need to hit you with all of Tannephins stats correlating OL/QB play?? Because i remember how against those "stats" you are.
res, you have told me that a couple times...The bottom line is he's had plenty of lanes to run thru he chooses not to because he's been trained to stay or just doesn't know how to execute this part of qb'ing.
Tannephins did come around to admitting that pressure did affect QBs. So, you have no answer for the abysmal oline play against normal rushes, I.e., not blitzing? It's funny, when stuff doesn't fit the narrative, no one wants to talk about it.
I've never said that Tannehill "never had a lane." I've questioned where that lane was on the vast majority of the sacks. For instance, on 30 sacks that occurred without there being a blitz, that means you have what, 6-7 guys in coverage? Do you think there were just open lanes everywhere all the time? Tannehill cannot create the way Wilson does, he doesn't have the side to side shifty agility that Wilson has.
Perhaps because our OL not being very good isn't some shocking development. Its common knowledge infact...but it is life for more than a few qbs in the league.
Right...But we're arguing about pocket presence. What sort of pocket presence should one have when over half the sacks come with pressure starting at 2.5 seconds with no blitz? This is why I get frustrated with some of the expectations people have put on Tannehill. When you start seeing stats like this, it should tell people that perhaps the narrative of poor pocket presence perhaps isn't as accurate as it appeared. But, I guarantee, no one will change their mind.
you said in this context, I was talking about him running on purpose and figuring out when to take off and run, you said that you have to have protection to have a lane..bottom line there are always lanes to run thru regardless of the protection.
im not trying to get him to be russell wilson or andrew luck, they are brilliant at the element of the game I'm referring to, Im talking about baby steps..hes not wiling to take baby steps, thats a problem when you possess the abilities that he has..
I think that's excessive. Had lanes, some lanes, there were lanes but I wouldn't say "plenty" of lanes.
Sure...let's say you're Tannehill, and you drop back...There no blitz, you start going through progressions...then BANG!! 2.5 seconds into the play, there's pressure. From everywhere. LOL. He's not Russell Wilson, he's not ever going to be able to escape like him. I saw Tannehill try to roll to another side to evade pressure, and get sacked. I saw him try to climb the pocket to evade, and get sacked. This is not to say that there were no times where I saw a lane that he didn't take...There were. But it just wasn't often.
because when pressure is applied, you can truly tell whether the qb has the traits and awareness of what were talking about.
This is something that often gets overlooked. Tannehill has great straight-line speed, but he has below average lateral agility and slow feet, which equate to him being more of a pocket passer. In that department, I think even guys like Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford, and Drew Brees are shiftier laterally than Tannehill, despite being slower straight-line. That being said, I do agree with DJ that there were specific instances where he had no open targets but really could have run for a first down, and he didn't... he ended up taking a sack, throwing away the ball, or forcing a throw... identifying when to do run in instances like these will help him a ton. Hopefully this, along with more consistent and accurate deep passing, will improve with time and experience, and I'm pretty confident that it will.
Wilson, even with his scrambles, graded worse by PFF, in the no blitz with pressure category. Take that for what it's worth.
More roll-outs would help too. Tannehill has proven he can throw well on the run. Sometimes you gotta design the play for someone without RW instincts (I mean the mental awareness part here). Anyway, for me, it's the bad decision making in the pocket (whether to take an evasive move, run, etc..) that stands out. As dj said, it's anticipation of pressure that is not as well developed in Tannehill. One good thing about Tannehill though is that all those sacks don't seem to have flustered him much or make him feel like there's pressure when there actually is none. I still remember how David Carr was destroyed by terrible O-line play (worse than ours), and he never recovered mentally. Tannehill seems to be far more resilient mentally in this regard and that's a relief!
So Tannehill should just always expect pressure, and never go through progressions? It's fine to expect him to expect pressure on blitzes, but not when there's four guys coming.
your exactly right about his lateral agility and feet, we've talked about it for years now, but I understand that completely when asking for him to not overlook this important part of qb'ing, I'm not asking his to scramble, I'm asking him to figure out where the line is and run up the field and slide for yardage..need no lateral agility for what I'm talking about..just an awareness, its very disapointing to me that he and his coaches are not recognizing it.
I think most qbs will struggle when four rushers are creating pressure in 2.5 seconds.That leaves more guys in coverage, creating tighter windows to throw into, leaving defenders in escape lanes.
no that's dumb qbing. why do you think running qbs are coached out of running and forced to learn to play within the pocket? its because in the pocket you can scan downfield waiting for a receiver to get open. you can throw for twenty yards a lot easier then you can run for twenty yards. keep running and you eliminate the chance for a big play. qb runs are not big plays, at best they move the chains but every time you drop back to pass you have a chance for that big play. so yes tannehill has good pocket presence. he feels the pressure correctly. he takes very few blindside hits. when he can move in the pocket he does. when there is no where to move he takes the sack or throws it away. that's how i want my qb to play. i dont want a running qb. i'm ok with about three runs per game and thats it. he can run as much as steve young and elway did in the middle of their careers about 50 rushing attempts per year. stay in the pocket, look downfield and hopefully one of our receivers will get open. thats how you play qb
i dont think they grasp how ridiculous a stat is that with no blitz you're getting pressure in 2.5 seconds. they actually expect tannehill to anticipate this beforehand. apparently tannehill is supposed to come to the line, see no blitz and then clairvoyantly determine that brandon albert is going to whiff on his block and therefore he should step up and to the left and run for fifteen yards
And further, let's be honest, we're discussing something where the fault is totally on the oline. A much as people want Tannehill to be better, it's also something the oline needs to fix.
its not dumb qb'ing to know where that line is to when to stay and when to run..not for one who has the ability to run...im not even considering him a running qb.. i guess andrew luck is dumb...lol.
I don't have any video to show you right here and now, but I remember Tannehill just standing there and essentially being surprised at the last minute that someone was onto him from behind, etc.. That's the condition you're talking about where the sack takes place without blitz, and I've seen other QB's handle that much better. Some just have a better sense of pressure.
And he can throw very well when rolling out to either side. He can roll to his left, hard for a right handed passer to do, and throw very well. The problem is you are in a sense halving the field.
Yeah, gotta be selective when to do it. As long it's not predictable and the play doesn't take too long (which it shouldn't if it's well designed), more roll-outs should help this team with our QB.
Pressure in 2.5 seconds without a blitz isn't an oline problem??? And yes, I'd prefer designed runs, like the option for Tannehill, and a nice functional pocket to throw from.
