Watching Michael Floyd go up and get the ball is a thing of beauty. This is the strongest WR class in a long while with Floyd of Notre Dame, Green of Georgia, Little of North Carolina, Jones of Alabama, Blackmon of Oklahoma State, Smith of Maryland, Broyles of Oklahoma, and Hankerson from Miami.
I can see why you have Floyd above Jones after watching this ND/Miami(FL) game. I saw way more of Jones this year, so had him higher, but Floyd looks great. Blackmon is still my top guy though.
Kyle Rudolph improvises too much. He will quit on a route quickly. He cannot block either. He will be the first TE selected I think though. I think he is a 3rd Rounder. I don't think we see anyone else go until R4; Kendricks of Wisconsin, Williams of Arkansas, etc. Very weak class.
I think WR is where we are headed with our selection. I think floyd and Blackmon are real candidates. I don't think Jones will past our "backround test".
It's unfortunate that Gabbert played so well because he is a top ten selection now. In fact I think Gabbert, Luck, and Newton go in the top ten and I think Mallett and Locker are still gone before we pick.
So who has eclared so far? I saw DeAndre Brown, WR of Southern Mississippi, Torrey Smith and Kenny Tate of UMD, Aaron Williams of Texas, Jurrell Casey and Tyron Smith of USC. Who am I missing? I saw Foles of Arizona, James of Oregon, and Pryor and Posey of OSU said they would return.
Why would DeAndre Brown come out after the year he had? I loved him as a freshman, and he had an ok year last year, but he missed like half the year this year and his stats were down even considering that. He's huge and could be a steal though, as I can't imagine him being drafted before rd 4.
I don't know if Kendricks fits our offensive philosophy as much as Williams does.... and not sure if he'd be as serviceable as a #1 either if Fasano goes down. I think Rudolph is a little rough, but we don't have a #2, so he would have a year or 2 to groom as a future #1 while serving an important #2 role in the process. He's young; he can be coached up on his routes and blocking. The size and tools are there IMO. Also not sure how much his hamstring injury has played into giving up on routes or blocking b/c he said it's affected his game since summer practice. I think Stocker will be a decent pro--- better than anything we have outside of Fasano, but I wouldn't want to use a 3rd or 4th round pick on him.
Why not? He's a great kid. ...... unless you're saying his mom was a whore. Just sayin. I'm not sold on Floyd being our best WR option TBH. Even though he's a big kid, he gives us more of what we currently have: slower possession type receivers. At least Julio is a better downfield threat, which IMO, is a must-have trait if we target a WR early. I believe Jon Baldwin would complement Marshall & Bess better than Floyd...... as would Little.
I think you'll be in for a surprise. IMO they'll be there before we pick, and they'll still be there after we pick.
Some of these WR's are intriguing, but IMO we dont go WR....I like where we are at the position honestly. We can find a burner in the mid-rounds.
FWIW that same guy that claims he knows Jeff Ireland and said that Ireland's inclinations a month ago or so were to trade down, re-acquire the 2nd round pick, and target Pat Devlin...says that Ireland and the front office are feeling the pressure from the owners and have gone fully in "win now" mode, and so they've begun talking to the Bengals about Carson Palmer and the possibility of trading the #16 for Carson and the Bengals' 2nd rounder, and from there they're targeting speed additions to the offense with the priority at the 2nd rounder being a RB to replace Ronnie Brown. Again, no idea if the guy is who he says he is. Could be lying through his teeth.
Dropping about 17 or so spots to acquire Palmer isnt a horrible deal....paying his 11 million dollar salary is quite another.
Palmer and McNabb I wouldn't touch. I'd rather go with someone younger like Kolb or another young guy. I'm not sure paying such a high price would work out for a Kolb. Unless they traded a late pick and henne for him. That would mean Andy Reed thinks he could turn henne around. I just got done watching the UCF win over UGA and the announcers kept saying AJ Green would be a top 5 pick if he comes out. IDK what they were looking at. He looked like a great KR and pretty good WR, but I didn't see top 5 overall pick. Has he been that good this year?
This is like giving up a 2nd round pick to get him if we consider the potential for trading back. I'm not a fan of giving up a 2nd AND a big contract to a 31 year old guy who's been battered worse than Tina Turner and hasn't had a QB rating higher than 86 in the past 4 years.... who has the same amount of INTs as Henne this year (actually 1 more if you remove the Pitt "INT"), 1 less INT than Henne last year, and 20 INTs in his last full season before that.
Just curious, have any of you that hate on Carson Palmer actually done some critical viewing of him any time recently? Focused on just his plays, watched them and re-watched them, make an effort to see what was going on aside from "Aww shucks another interception", etc? I just ask because I wan't crazy about him and then I did exactly that and that is why I would fully be on board with that proposal (our #16 for Palmer and their 2nd).
I havent seen him the past few weeks but didn't like what I saw during much of the regular season. If his mechanics etc are back to his norm and his health is ok, then I'd be MUCH less concerned about him. I'm just worried that his plethora of serious injuries <and non serious ones> have permanently influenced his throwing ability (planting, driving, follow through, velocity, the whole shebang) and possibly his psyche too (although less concerned about this).
Rodney Hudson is a joy to watch at Guard. He's gonna make someone happy. His feet and ability to lock onto someone on the move and at the 2nd level are a thing of beauty. It's like he's magnetized and the defenders are made of steel.
If Palmer gets checked out and clears (and not by the guy who looked at Culpepper), then I'd "possibly" be down with it.
Happy and safe new year for all. FWIW and sorry if this was already mentioned , Mel Kiper said on espn radio that he sees Locker in the 20-32 area. He also added if he goes to the senior bowl he could influence that range backwards or forwards. Cheers !
I honestly see nothing wrong with his game from a physical sense. It's mental and circumstantial. He places too much faith in Terrell Owens and Chad OchoCinco and they're not deserving of it. He trusts them. Especially Owens, I have watched every single one of Palmer's interceptions this year. Every one....and 10 of them went to Owens, and more than half of those were miscommunications, or instances of Owens not really bothing to finish the route, or Owens not getting separation even against a linebacker in man coverage, something like that. Owens goes out of the game at the beginning against Cleveland, you watch that video I put on YouTube of his game against Cleveland and tell me that's a bad QB. Then watch him put up 4 TDs and 0 INTs against the Chargers without Owens in the game. The guy needs a change of scenery. He didn't forget how to play football. He's always been chancy with the ball in some ways but that's not a bad thing, only in our Sparano/Henning-crazed world where your QB is supposed to immediately check off an option if there's even a remote chance the guy is covered...do we start forgetting to recognize that some interceptions need to be thrown.
Trying to keep an eye on both the Alabama/Michigan State game and the Mississippi State/Michigan game. Dang!! Mark Ingram is so good, it will really test my thoughts that we shouldn't take a RB in round 1 if he's there. The guy simply has the best vision and balance of any runner I've seen. Chris Relf is playing like a poor man's Cameron Newton in this game. He is 12 of 17 for 135 yards, 2 touchdowns and has another 43 yards on 12 rushes with a rushing touchdown. Dan Mullen has worked a freaking miracle with this guy. Two years ago, Chris Relf couldn't hit the backside of a barn with the football. Vick Ballard has added a touchdown and 42 yards on 12 rushes.
So he hasn't been missing badly on targets lately from lack of follow through etc?... and his arm strength has kicked it back into gear? Since I haven't seen him lately, I have to trust your eyes. How do you honestly feel he'll do in our offense if the philosophy doesn't change?.... and do you think he'd want to play in this conservative offense with WRs running tons of outs and comeback routes rather than exciting upfield stuff? At least he'll have Jake Long, so that's gotta be a positive, right. So who do you like as our 2nd round pick from this deal? Ryan Williams? LeShoure? Rudolph b/c of value? One of the top Gs/RT? (God I hope we can land Mankins so we don't need to go 'boring Oline' pick here) I still like Jon Baldwin a lot. IMO if he lands on a team who pays him much respect and makes sure that he knows he's highly valued, then he'll give 100% and kick it back into gear. The kid has tattoos of his mom's, child's, and dog's name IIRC, so I think "family" & "loyalty" are huge deals to this kid after hearing him talk. IMO it's why he slacked off at Pitt. Once he felt Wanny was screwing him over, his passionate sense of family & loyalty went out the window and his f*** you attitude kicked in. I'd have to think Palmer would enjoy a trio of Marshall, Baldwin, and Greg Little, with Bess as a 2nd & short and 3rd down specialist and Hartline being a trusty utility guy. Staying with Henne and having a trio of Marshall, Blackmon (or Julio), and Little (with Scheffler, Mankins, Bradshaw, and Tolbert) puts a smile on my face....... even though it will never happen. That kind of stuff only exists in NE where they realize the value of playmakers.
Ingram is swaying me a little too, but Julio's physical presence is right there in the mix for me. If we're stuck at our normal 1st round pick and need a RB, then Ingram-Greg Little would have to be my favorite RB-WR duo in the draft. That's gotta top Julio (or Blackmon) and whatever 3rd round back is available IMO.
I am late to this discussion but let me say... taking Ingram in the 1st round would be a huge mistake. He is Ronnie Brown 2.0. The Fins do not need another 3 yards and a cloud of dust type of RB and that is what Ingram is.
Keith is absolutely right on Chris Relf. How they're getting THIS out of him is just absolutely beyond me, the guy has been so incredibly bad in the past but he's phenomenal in this game, and really been solid most of the year. He's not giving his RBs much chance to shine in this game because he's opting to keep everything and do it himself, trying to be superman, but he's succeeding. You want to know why I rate Vick Ballrd higher than almost every draft eligible RB in the nation, just watch his two TD runs, especially the latter. His ability to will himself through the pile, make subtle moves that make defenders miss, get yards after contact, run hard and keep his feet moving...just special. And this is a guy that blocks, because of that option system of theirs and the way he had to fight his way to prominence through a littany of other backs...they ask him to lead block and he does it, ask him to protect Relf and he does it. He shows soft hands in the passing game, the ability to adjust on the ball in the air and keep his feet. Perkins has better long speed but Ballard has burst off his cuts. The biggest weakness in Ballard's game is he looks a little less comfortable out in the open trying to shake defenders than he is inside the box getting hard yards. But this guy will be a TD machine at the next level, his WILL is stronger than most other guys'.
What? I don't see this at all. Ingram hits the hole and has good vision. Ronnie sits around dancing until he finds a hole the size of a truck before he decides to go.
I like your thoughts. Overall yes on Palmer I don't see physical problems. I see a problem with accuracy and float on some of his deep verticals, that's the only type of throw I've seen a problem on, but maybe a handful of times and that's a follow through issue, probably more footwork oriented than anything. I don't know how he would do in our offense, I can't imagine our offense succeeding very well period except for brief moments. In the 2nd round yeah if Ryan Williams is still there that's a homerun from a talent perspective (injury, character, I don't know yet). I like LeShoure, he brings a lot of what Ronnie Brown supplies in the offense, but I think he could bring big play ability that Ronnie has lacked. He's not a short yardage or goal line runner (neither is Ronnie) but Miami has Polite for short yardage and Ricky Williams has good instincts for inside running. Jon Baldwin has a lot of that screwoff in him. He'll do things wrong and say things wrong. I don't know that he's a bad kid but he will screw up. If you can live with that, he's still an excellent vertical prospect, and he'd benefit from losing a little weight and being asked to run the route tree instead of verticals all day. I don't think you give Bess enough credit. Miami can really succeed with this WRs cast. They need more in it, they need a vertical threat they can put on the field every now and then, but the WRs are NOT the reason they're not succeeding. Dan Henning's conservative principles, Chad Henne's inability to read the field and lack of creativity, less than mediocre run blocking, and far less than mediocre play out of the running back position all stack as higher problems. This is why I don't know why everything with you is WR, WR, WR, WR, WR. We don't have to get Jon Baldwin AND Greg Little. You put Brandon Marshall, Davone Bess and Brian Hartline on the Patriots right now, that passing offense would be top in the NFL.
I really like our top 3 WRs, but I think having a vertical guy (or two) could really help. I also think all 4 offensive issues you listed are accurate. 1 will be removed because of retirement, hopefully it will be fixed via replacement. I don't think we can solve the 2nd one in the draft, I hope it is either fixed with the help of #1(and natural development) and/or a QB via free agency. I think the run blocking could be fixed with some development (Jerry), a guy like Mankins, and maybe Incognito at C. I think we could solve that in the draft as well (see my sig), and get some vertical WRs. The running backs can hopefully be fixed via the draft and FA (Bradshaw, Williams, or Bush, etc). And hopefully we add another capable TE (I like Fasano, but just him is not enough).
Thanks on the Palmer stuff. All I needed to hear. I'd put Baldwin in the Mike Williams category psyche wise..... or close to it. Jon's one of those guys IMO who would make a quicker and stronger impact if he were drafted by a team with a black HC, and that's not a racial attack if anyone's thinking it. It's funny b/c it's not actually WR, WR with me even though it completely looks like it. I'm like you in the regard that I'd love to add Blackmon or Julio. Normally, that'd be fine for me and I'd be done, but I have such a massive man-crush on Little that there's no way I could pass him by in the 3rd or 4th round. So it ends up looking like WR-WR-WR-WR by default. I just wrote and posted this to a response in the draft forum, but I thought it spark up some nice debate if it were in the mains, too, since not everyone visits the draft forum. I'm a huge fan of Bess to be honest, but I truly feel our offense is lacking in maximizing 1st & 2nd down potential b/c having Bess on the field during these downs basically means us NEVER busting a big play from the slot position, and I don't like that. I don't like that he can't stretch the field from the slot, especially considering that Fasano can't do it either, making it 2 guys on the inside who can't attack the entire field on 1st & 2nd down which prevents Marshall and the ground game from having maximum space to operate in. I want to see Marshall's $40 million contract be good for more than 2.9 YAC. IMO we leave big plays on the field on 1st and 2nd down when Bess is in the slot, while making life a little more difficult for the ground game, and our 1st down yards per carry (around 3.85) seem to back this up (even though there are other clearly other aspects to consider, too). For me, 1st & 10 is one of the downs when a defense has to be prepared for anything while an offense has the ability to run just about any play. Bess's physical limitations don't allow us to really open up the playbook on 1st down the way a Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon, or Greg Little would as our #2 while moving Hartline to the slot on 1st and 2nd down. That would pose a much bigger threat IMO. I believe it would open up the ground game a little better, and I believe we'd see more "chunk yardage" on 1st & 2nd down. Hartline has just enough speed to get vertical to where he could do some nice things to help Marshall play in more space (b/c as good as Bess is by himself, I have to attribute some of Marshall's crappy YAC to having Bess next to him). Close your eyes and visualize a defense's response to Hart attacking the safeties (or LBs further down field) and how it changes the entire dynamics of everything. I don't see how a billion out routes or comebacks by Bess does anything to truly grab a Safeties attention or effect their game plan. They're like: "Hey look-- Bess is running a 6 yard out." "Wow, he's running an 8 yard curl..... Thank you Miami!! Now we can focus more attention on stopping the ground game, Marshall, and keying in on Henne". At least that's how I view it. Bess is worth his weight in rubies on 3rd down (namely 3rd & 8 or less yards) and when we need a clutch 1st down on 2nd & 8 or less, but outside of that he becomes a playmaking liability IMO. Teams have 2 down LBs for this very reason right?--- to maximize the value of the position on EVERY down. Defenses do it to help reduce the big play etc, so why can't we do the same on offense to help CREATE more big plays?! We can treat our slot WR role as a 2 down LB so that we have as much production here on 1st & 2nd down as we do on 3rd. Bess on 1st down: 190 yards, 10 ave, 1 TD, 23% 1st downs per targeted attempt, 61% catch rate per attempt, 23 yard long. Bess on 3rd down: 299 yards, 10.7 ave, 2 TDs, 50% 1st downs per attempt, 67% catch rate. Hartline on 1st down: 401 yards, 18.2 ave, 42% 1st downs per attempt, 67% catch rate, 54 yard long. Hartline on 3rd down: 128 yards, 11.6 ave, 38% 1st downs per attempt, 46% catch rate, 21 yard long. The above stats are troubling to me. By glancing at them, you can concretely see that we're leaving plays on the field and not maximizing our offense's potential on each down. We lack dynamics because of it, and IMO it will continue to lack until it's addressed. Simple fix: 1. Draft a stud WR like Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon, or Greg Little to replace Hartline as our #2. 2. Move Hart to the slot on 1st and some 2nd downs so we can get his quality 1st down production here (401 yards) instead of Bess's mediocre 190. This also provides us greater YPC, more 1st downs per attempt, a greater catch%, and greater chunk yardage potential on 1st down from the slot while still having as much production (if not more) from the #2 WR position. (None of this mentions how much an upgrade at #2 means to our offense, but that's for another thread). 3. Bess moves to the slot on 2nd & short and 3rd down where he can continue to dominate the league. Marshall, Hart, and (Little, Blackmon, or Julio) give us greater flexibility to move guys around the field with a better opportunity of creating mismatches. Bess & Hart can both rotate in to give breathers while providing us an extremely difficult 4 WR spread to defend (and less worries about Marshall being winded in the 4th Qtr). Adding a stud #2 IMO will go a long way toward indirectly turning this offense around. All of this gives us a better opportunity to maximize production from all 3 WR positions on EVERY down. Basically, I want to squeeze this puppy for every yard it can get. We're like a 200 HP V8 with room to tweak it to 350 with a couple easy adjustments. I'd like to see it get to 500!! lol I know I probably got a little redundant, but I'm too tired and hung over to proof read. I'm gonna post this in the mains to spark some debate. Why the heck not.
That guy can play! He was everywhere. Made me think of Zach Thomas. BTW. Michigan and Michigan State -- welcome to the SEC!
