2008 Mets!!! LETS GO METS!!!

Oh please. Innings pitched is what youre going by? That may qualify them for most durable but the mets staff has a lower era and thats before I even mention that the Braves have the best staff era in the NL heading in to this past weekend.

 

Quit spamming the thread. You have 3 ticked off mets fans that are all mods. Ask yourself how wise it is to keep pushing buttons....

 

There was an OK Bobby Jones who was a starter and a really bad one that was a starter and converted to reliever but was still awful.

 

C'Mon Boik !!!!!!! The Met's fans are already jumping off of the sinking ship:

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-mets&tid=349826

When do we say enough is enough? When do we realize this team is just not as good as we all once thought? Do we wait until the All-Star Break? Do we wait until we're mathematically eliminated?

I say, double-digit deficit in the loss-column (10, 10.5 GB). I mean, these guys knew in their heart of hearts they DESPERATELY needed to get off to a hot start with the collapse still fresh on the minds of their fans and their superiors.

THEY DIDN'T. What does that tell you? These guys just can't. If they can't perform when they need to perform the most, what makes you think they'll perform when it doesn't matter (or when we fall too far behind the Phillies)?

Double-digits, fellas. Fire Sale to follow.

The Phillies just have too much hitting, scoring, and even if their pitching becomes just average, they outscore every team in the NL except maybe the Cubbies. It's the Phillie's year again....we are still the team to beat.

 

LOL I love the way you change the argument. Gotta hand it, youre not even subtle about it

The argument was that the Philthies dont have the best pitching like you said, in the division let alone in the league.

That said if the mets continue on this path I wouldnt be upset with a firesale as long as we held on to the important guys like wright reyes johan maine and Pelfrey. If at the deadline we're 12 or 15 games back cya @willie, delgado, anyone else who can be moved...

 

Alou out of the line up again tonight, this is getting pathetic now. If I were a Mets fan I'd be seriously pissed by now.

 

Finkle if you were a Met fan you'd have been seriously pissed since about July of last year when we really started playing like crap.

 

This is getting ridiculous. Pelfrey pitches the game of his life vs Arizona...8 shutout innings, k's 8, only 5hits/2BB and wagner gives up a 3 run homer to mark reynolds in the bottom of the 9th to tie it. Reynolds, so you know, k'd 3x vs Pelfrey.

I guess the good news is that Pelfrey pitched a gem showing he can do it vs more then just washington and Atlanta.

 

I live in Southern CT right in the middle of Met/Yankee country, and I listen to WFAN daily so I consider myself pretty in tune with the Mets and what they do day to day. And yes if I was a Met fan I'd probably be beside myself right now I really don't understand this team, they have plenty of talent but I have no idea why they're so mediocore.

I think they need to do something crazy to try and jump start this team.

 

And yet they win in the bottom of the 13th. Walk off homer by Beltran....

 

Trade perez Heilman and find a LF and 1B. Same as the end of last year.....except then it was RF and 1B

 

Pelfrey's been excellent lately. He's given up 3 runs in the last 21 innings. He's keeping his walk rate down, but I'd like to see more Ks. However, Wagner's recent struggles are bothering me. He was lights-out for the first part of the season, and in the last couple weeks, he's stunk. Thank God Beltran bailed him out.

 

You think the Reds would bite on a Perez for Adam Dunn deal? We'd probably have to send them something else. I'd say Heilman, but his value's surely in the toilet. Angel Pagan? Nick Evans?

 

Well, that's certainly the WTF?!? picture of the day.

 

2 days in a row for wagner, wtf... right now 2 on with Delgado up 2 out bottom of the ninth... cmon Carlos make it happen

 

easley now with them loaded, cmon

 

****.... they just cant win one easy can they... they have santana pitch through the 7th winning 4-0... then another bullpen meltdown, 2 in a row with good starts and poor finishes...

the offense could have tacked on insurance runs too but Wright and Beltran got out with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 7th... this team is so frustrating right now

 

Oliver Perez? I don't understand why they'd take a FA pitcher who they probably wouldn't be able to sign for Dunn. Even if they let Dunn walk at the end of the year, they'd clearly get better draft picks for Dunn than they would with Perez.

If the Reds trade him I think they could get a better package of players from other teams like the Indians, Dodgers or Angels. Possibly the Red Sox (if Ortiz is done for the year) or Rays if they're still in the race and want to make a big deal.

 

You know at this point im more tempted to trade perez heilman and delgado for prospects give carp and evans a shot at 1B. Get younger because this team sucks. Its not even the distance we are out of first sometimes you can just see that a team isnt coming together....

We score runs (like yesterday and again today) and we blow the lead. We dont score runs and the pitching is perfect...

 

According to Jon Heyman on SI.com and reiterated on wfan (around 140ish PM) Willie, Hojo, and The jacket are on the firing line possibly as soon as this weekend. Jerry Manual looks to be the in season replacement.

Additionally, Omar IS working the phones, looking for an OF or 1B. My guesses would be Nady, Marcus Thames, maybe Dunn.

According to Heyman, Omar is very concerned about the OF production...dont know what took him so long. Hes aware our production from LF is deplorable (when Alou is out hitting less then 240, 0 homers something like 13 rbi). Now we have the same situation in RF with Church out...

 

Great series Mets.

BTW: What happened to Delgado? I was concerned everytime he came up to bat, and then....nothing.

Also, I still think the Mets have the right stuff, aside from the obvious Bullpen woes.

 

Delgado's swing has clearly slowed up. He cant catch up to the inside fastball's he used to mash 400 + feet. He's always been a guy who likes the ball down and in and now those are the balls hes swinging and missing. Hes a disaster vs lefties also.

 

he "suspected" HoJo would be part of that chopping block...

 

Do we really want to lose Peterson? That might be an over reaction.

 

Mets picked up Trot Nixon from the DBacks Triple A team for a player to be named later, cash or a bag of balls. Nixon is a clubhouse leader and a gamer. If he's in the line up he'll go all out and give you 100%. Of course he can't hit lefties to save his life and he gets hurt a lot (if you combine him and Alou you'd have a possible HOFer and 3040982081 DL trips too). He's a no nonsense guy so I'm sure if he sees something in the clubhouse he doesn't like he'll kick some *** and let people know about it. For some reason I just never liked the guy when he was on the Sox (I did respect his hustle and effort though) but I think this is a good move for the Mets in the short term. Obviously he's not the long term answer.

 

Nixon cant possibly be any more pathetic then having Endy Chavez/Damian Easley/Marlon Anderson platooning LF and combining for a 210 BA or whatever. And any leadership qualities he has will be a bonus.

 

eh i can see both sides of that argument. One is that on his watch we've been pretty injury free save for the ones we knew Pedro had and the non baseball related oe to Duaner Sanchez and pitcher development has been better then in the past for guys like Maine, Joe Smith, Feliciano etc. The downside is all our pitchers are now fastball/slider/change pitchers so there is no variance in what they throw. In addition you have to account for someone like Heilman who has regressed on his watch and the inability to solve the mystery that is Ollie Perez who will make someone a lottery winner if they can get him to be consistent.

 

Well, I'm not sure Perez can be fixed... mentally. The Jacket did fix Perez's pitching, but he's not out staff psychologist. He's the pitching coach. Perez has a brain problem, not a pitching problem.
Besides, you don't fire the pitching coach because of a literal "throw in" player from a past trade. Can't forget that Perez was in the minors and ended up started (in outstanding fashion) game 7 of the NLCS, and is now part of our rotation. Someone give the dude a bottle of self confidence and it'll all be okay.

Heilman Ugh, he makes my headache worse. I can possible understand that argument, but I could just as easily understand one made against Willie in this case. Either way, that's just not enough reason to get rid of a pitching coach that has had so many positive results unless you have a stud waiting in the wings. Maybe Darling has been whispering in someones ear

 

The thing is Perez's problems arent mental, they are pitching related. The reason for his inconsistency is the same as its always been. He changes arm angles every pitch and has a hard time repeating the same motion. This leads to loss of control of the strike zone, his fastball drops from 94-95 to 88-91 and becomes hittable, a ton of hit batters and WP (he leads the league there as well as walks)....its not much different then what plagued Victor Zambrano...who oh by the way we're still waiting for Peterson to fix. If he deserves to be fired for anything, thats it.

Perez's problems arent confidence related bro. They never have been. I posted an article when we got Perez that showed the difference in angles between Perez in 04 when he had a tremendous year then in 06 before we dealt for him. The article described in detail how Perez never repeats the same motion and the same angles and you can still see it today when you watch replays in slow motion. Last night he was perfect for all but 1 pitch to Hamilton because his arm angle was very consistent but thats not usually the case.

 

I remember that article. Very instructive.

I would say that the majority of Perez's problems are mechanical, but he is a bit of a headcase as well. He'll do stupid **** at times that has nothing whatsoever to do with his problem with a fixed arm angle.

 

Really makes me wonder WHY his arm angles change so much. I do remember that article, and I remember the praise the Jacket got for helping him find that consistent angle again. IMO, the arm angle changes are for a lack of confidence, and trying to compensate and get too cute. A coach can help a player find where they should be, but they can't force decisions.

 

Mets have interest in Brian Fuentes, presumably as a setup man.

Link

 

It happens occassionally with taller pitchers, predominantly lefties. Randy Johnson would be one example. Its psychological relation is minimal. It is almost all physical because its no different then training your legs to run or your fingers to type; its just a matter of repeating a motion the same way over and over.

 

Nieto and Peterson look to be gone: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...ck_peterson_tom_nieto_facing_ax_but_wi-1.html

Nieto, the 1b coach would be akin to firing the hot dog vendor. Peterson obviously would be a different case.

 

For some reason I am having a hard time finding the stats so if someone can find them Thanks. This team has to be ranked as one of the worst teams in leaving runners on base and BA with runners in scoring position. Game in game out they do not advance runners..hit the sac flies and get the big hit when they need them . This has been going on for over a year now and its REALLY very hard to see what exactly is going to change about it.

 

Guess the win wasnt enough to save his job...

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-randolph17-2008jun17,0,6846719.story

On a side note, looking forward to the Lackey v Santana match up tonight. Wish I had tickets, but I'll be there on Wednesday to see Perez

 

That's just wrong IMO. Deserved? Maybe, but you don't fire a coach right after a win and you don't fire him on the road. You fire him at home. Minaya was way off base handling it the way that he did. Eventually, if the Mets don't see the playoffs this year and certainly next year, the blame will fall on Minaya for talent reasons. These are the players that he wanted. JMO.