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I'll be astounded if Tua is ever "great." I think that Tua will be a good QB, and will have a decent career. I wish we had traded back in that...

Didn't realize it was actually a link. Now I see it's from Jan 2020. Yes, we all know the pundits were talking about Tua being a can't miss...

Actors actually do this crazy Spartan thing or something to get jacked for some of these superhero roles. The chain is that it's all done without...

Isn't every QB drafted in the first a "franchise QB prospect"? Like, what does that quote even mean?

No. The problem is saying that because Tannehill is deadly in PA, that that means Tannehill is dependent on Henry. PA isn't effective because you...

I mean, "quite possible" might be overstating it, given that if you don't have l prototypical size/strength your getting weeded out before college.

I mean, your odds of getting the NFL when below prototypical size/strength are already way lower. So, to even get there means you have talent....

I mean, using two QBs separated by a almost a quarter century seems to indicate that they are outliers. Lol. Arm strength/size IS important to...

I'm not. I'm not even the one who brought up arm strength. Tua HIMSELF says he played poorly ("below average"). I don't care if you believe...

No, because even a weak armed QB can do things to compensate in order to get some extra velocity on the ball. So, a clip of a completion doesn't...

It's not necessarily about the deep ball. Even a "weak armed" QB will be able to throw it 30-50 yards. Yes, a string arm guy will be able to...

I don't disagree. Where I disagree is that I don't think Tua will be at the level of Tannehill. Like I said, chances are I'm wrong. However,...

He threw a bunch of short, safe passes, largely. Which, really, I wouldn't care about, except that the offense was incredibly stagnant with him...

Unfortunately, we have games where Tua was benched, and Fitz played with the same receivers, and somehow magically they were open downfield for...

If Tua was doing all these great things, why did the offense suck *** with him in there? Honest question, cause I don't know what the you're...

Think that means he has you blocked...or you have him blocked.

Specifically, for instance, he pointed out that he was the third fastest to 30k yards. Regards of era, the QBs coming into the league with...

Yet how do you reconcile that an average QB did things that other allegedly better QBs didn't do? I just don't, and never will, believe that...

Cbrad, he still did things that no other quarterbacks were doing, IN THE SAME ERA. Comparing eras is unimportant. You are arguing that he's...

I mean, we won 10 games this season, you don't think Watson alone elevates the offense significantly? But in that scenario, we're only giving up...

I would argue that Tannehill was pretty similar as a rookie to Tua. Both threw basically one td a game, similar comp %, while Tua has an...

I would agree he's more escapable than Tannehill was, but he's not elite like a Wilson or Mahomes. Also, Tua SHOULD have had a better rookie...

Yeah, I agree, clearly Miami wasn't going to work for him. Just curious, how much did you watch Tua in college? Why do you think his ceiling is...

Yeah, i generally agree...I argued for years that we needed to build around Tannehill. But Tannehill has elite arm talent, and is extremely...

I really don't understand...for years, I've heard the arguments on here that we need an elite QB to compete for a SB. Now, we have a shot at...

Why hate on the Bills? They've been in the cellar like us. I hope the AFC turns into a powerhouse.

What I'm saying is, some of the loudest voices against Tannehill are for Tua, and they're using the very arguments they argued against with...

I was simply pointing out, it does seem that the sides have switched.

Yeah, he has two arms, two legs, a head. I wasn't seeing the next Drew Brees when I watched him extensively in college, or last season. Honestly...

The problem I have is, Tua dues not possess the same physical abilities of Allen. I have no doubt Tua will improve. I just don't know that he...

If that were true, it still doesn't bode well for Tua, not does it back up the claims by Flores that he was starting the guy who gave them the...

I mean, it's not like Fitz is trash. I'm not happy with Tua, but I also don't think it's reasonable to expect Tua to come in and outplay a 16...

It's the age old disagreement.

I just don't agree. Again, you're attempting to compare response to pressure, which means you're saying that all pressure is the same, the only...

I don't believe that Tua's ceiling is higher than Tannehill's. I believe his floor was higher.

Well it's also crazy because only a page or two ago, he admitted that Tannehill is a top 10 QB.

I'm by no means anti-Tua. I hope, HOPE, I'm wrong about him. But there is nothing that I've seen from Tua, in college or NFL, that gives me any...

My bad, I actually hasn't looked at a score, didn't watch the game, and ran across that stat. Thanks for the correction.

Are we really criticizing Tannehill after throwing for almost 300 yards and a 104 rating against the Ravens? I mean, yeah, I guess it's...

I respect that.

Yeah, agreed. Add in that the Tennessee offense is markedly different and far more effective with Tannehill.

Hahahaha!!

Anyone except Mariota, right? And stop pretending that Henry was this dominant prior to Tannehill.

If you had ever played sports, you would understand why these things you're saying are incorrect. When an easy pass is dropped, it's almost...

Again, I ask, do you play ANY sports? Have you ever played football? It's ok if you haven't. However, what you're saying just isn't accurate....

Yeah, I mean, you don't go OL when you have a question at QB, and there are elite prospects available.

That is such an extreme viewpoint, man.

Again, hitting dead center of the 20 foot bucket is going to be far far easier than hitting the 20 inch bucket. You aren't a robot, and the idea...

Lmao. Suuuuure. I'd like to see video of you consistently dropping a golf ball into a 20" bucket from 30' away. But make it a 3 inch wide...

What is the deficiency? It's just how humans work. You've never answered one of my questions, and I don't ask it to try to denigrate you or make...

Oh surprise, people slobbered over the pretty boy feel good story of the QB for the best team in the nation. I didn't see Steve Young when I...

Tannehill is doing well in Tennessee because he is elite at some things, and that offense maximizes those. Tua doesn't have any elite...

Yet Fitz makes the offense hum. Agreed it's unfair to expect Tua to run the offense as good as a vet, but Tua didn't even try to make it work....

I think where we really disagree is where we think his ceiling is. I went to bat year after year for Tannehill, because even as a rookie, I saw...

Let's play an imaginary game, where those 3 picks didn't happen, and instead Tua lead three TD drives. That's another 21 points. Since one of...

You must not have watched the game. Did you watch how the freaking first half ended??

Three bolded part is the exact thing we are discussing. Lol. We should have a QB. We took the top prospect at #5. It isn't like we took a...

Again, this gets into stuff I brought up months ago...but this idea that you can get a sense of accuracy from a guy throwing to wide open...

But those college accuracy stats are incredibly deceptive. It's much like the blocking metrics and pressure stats. Tua was throwing 5 yard outs...

100%. Second round might even have been one round too soon.

Three picks One pick 6 At least one play where he lobbed a ball into triple coverage, and the int was dropped Tua was not good. Donkey balls...

You said it was ludicrous to attribute the loss to Tua. I'm not saying the only reason they lost was Tua. I'm saying that Tua's play directly...

Yeah man. I went through this with Tannehill...I'm at the point that I just want the Dolphins to draft a QB that has physical abilities to deal...

We are not talking about wins. Tua did not look good. The teams with Herbert and Burrow are excited about those two moving forward, because they...

I honestly don't understand how anyone could watch the game yesterday, and walk away thinking that Tua wasn't in any way responsible for that...

3 picks. One returned for a TD. After the pick six, the next drive he threw a lazy floater into triple coverage that he was lucky wasn't picked....

Exactly. Tua was not supposed to be a raw project. He was supposed to be smart, accurate, etc, which was supposed to offset his lack of arm...

I don't think it's at all accurate to compare to Tannehill. Tannehill was a converted wide receiver, incredibly raw, but with a high ceiling....

Yet there several rookie QBs who were not as highly touted as Tua, who are not struggling like that. That is the difference.

Any QB that is more explosive that was taken second round or later, we passed on.

I say draft high. Worst case scenario, neither guy is good. Best case, you have Rivers/Brees scenario.

He wasn't that impressive, really, in college though, man. I completely agree with others, he does not have that vibe of a superstar. This isn't...

We've had our disagreements, but you and I feel exactly the same on this.

Also, I'd like to point out, I backed Tannehill for years. Here's what I learned: Miami never ever actually built a team around Tannehill's...

I'm not really arguing with you, just giving my perspective. But, yes, I'd do everything I could to get the best prospect possible in this next...

Dude, I can't imagine any rational football fan would take that bet. Hahahaha

I watched Tua in college, quite a bit, as I watch most Alabama games. I was never really impressed with Tua, and never felt that he was anything...

Yeah, I agree. Even if you thought Tua was the guy...how do you legitimately take him that high after that injury? There's a reason that he was...

No, our offense just embarrassed themselves all on their own. What a joke. I'm sick and tired of the Dolphins taking the safe picks at QB. Did...

Of course they quit. They know that there is no way Tua can lead that offense to any consistent points whatsoever.

The thing that pisses me off, is this draft there is no way we get Lawrence, so we've now got to spend so many resources to try to secure whoever...

No. There was a pick six and a punt return td. Still, way to many points to give up. But it showed what I was talking about yesterday or a...

Pick six. This drive tua just threw a lazy pass into triple coverage, lucky it wasn't picked.

Tell me more stories about Tua being as good as Fitz because rating is similar. Today the defense gave up 28 in the first half. The Bills went...

Great. Honestly, think the game plan has been to play Tua as long as possible, as he doesn't turn the ball over, and then fall back on Fitz if...

And regarding QBR, I understand fully your argument against it. However, I appreciate that they attempt to get a better value of what the QB is...

Man, again, Flores isn't going to come out and say anything negative about Tua. But the fact is, they don't trust him when the game is on the...

Flawed stats are only ok when they're related to blocking and pressure? Don't sit there and act like Tua has been masterful with this offense....

And yet, in the last two games, when it mattered, Flores turned to Fitz. I get the similarity in rating, but the admittedly flawed QBR has Fitz...

This is gonna get locked I'm sure, but what has the flag done to anyone? My own opinion, is that the flag represents the good things that America...

****. Well, that's that. I'm by no means convinced that Tua can win this game right now. Hope he proves me wrong.

I mean, it was talked about ad nauseum during the game broadcast, but it seems pretty apparent that Tua isn't seeing guys as being open. This...

I don't agree with that at all, regardless of what data is telling you. If the offense is stagnant when the game is close, it will be even worse...

And? I'm not saying I don't think Tua's the guy. But he certainly hasn't sold me yet. I find it funny the excuses people are giving Tua. Can...

Not exactly...it's that he hasn't functioned like a QB worthy of #5 overall, and would have been #1 if he hadn't hurt his hip. So people I think...

I was not in any way speaking about Tua's future development. I was referring specifically to this last game. Cbrad was talking about Fitz...

I mean, they both had the same players Saturday, and Tua and the offense were not moving the ball, but Fitzpatrick came in and it was completely...

Pretty safe to say, Tua was not good tonight.

Tua is terrible tonight.

Yeah what is with this dink and dunk offense??

Entire quarter to go, down by 3. Game is far from over.

No Parker? Come on.

Yeah, for me it's just sort of intuitive, in that when I see the leaders for passer rating, I expect that those guys have some serious receiving...

Well, I would argue it does it unintentionally. Passer rating is going to automatically favor QBs with better talent around them. Better...

I was referencing that drive where his center and another lineman were driven back into Cousins almost as soon as he was or if his drop. His line...

Anyone else paying attention to how terrible and tentative Kirk Cousins looks behind that trash line?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/22/ryan-tannehills-arrival-has-been-a-boon-to-derrick-henry/amp/

They problem is cbrad, that we debated this nonstop when he was in Miami. Myself and a few others beat the drum in regards to the pressure stats...

The proper approach would be, imo, to say that since the pressure stats are woefully inaccurate, then we can't come to any actual conclusions from...

How the eff does Jason Sanders not make it? Go figure the only guy with a slightly better kick% is the Falcons kicker.

No, it isn't answering the question. It doesn't tell you if Tom Brady would or would not have had a similar breakdown if he played under the same...

It's meaningless because it's impossible to know whether or not they had better pressure stats because of individual ability, or because of other...

1. It's pretty meaningless to compare how Barry Sanders with an arm deals with pressure. 2. The Seahawks, especially in this first couple of...

That's simply not true. We can look at what players and coaches did after leaving Miami. You can easily see what tools Tannehill had to work...

Who cares? It's a meaningless incomplete stat.

This whole discussion is ludicrous. Obviously, individual humans react differently to pressure. I have no issue with saying that. However, if...

But cbrad, if your measure is known to not account for things, then it shouldn't be used as evidence of anything.

No, dude, it's got nothing to do with "perceived slights." It has to do with actually understanding what was going on. If you insist on trotting...

Your conclusion that he needs a good oline is kind of an argument starter. You've always refused to acknowledge that pressure stats aren't...

There were many reasons why Wallace was not a fit in Miami. There was a reason why Pitt let him go. He was never successful in timing offenses...

This post didn't age well. And I'm still pissed that they lost to Houston.

And let's not pretend that the Steelers were EVER as bad as the Dolphins, and wasn't that team pretty stacked when Tomlin took over?

What threw me off reading your post was the semicolon before the phrase "he wasn't WAAAAY too early.". It sounded like you were disagreeing with...

I disagree completely on the second hit. He was WAAAAAY too early, and Grant deserves no blame for not taking a fair catch. Grant has every right...

I mean, Bob Knight was a highly successful coach, and he broke the rukes and norms all the time, defending his players. But, it does bring a ton...

This is what someone mentioned before, regarding Tua vs Tannehill. You say that you've seen flashes, and that gives you the belief that Tua is...

Tannehill goes 29 of 45 for 389 yards 3 TDsand 1 INT, and cbrad says "Tannehill was fine." Fine? This is exactly the point of Hiruma's post.

*Wipes eye That was beautiful, man. Props.

This is some revisionism. Those of us who defended Tannehill in Miami were 100% in our predictions. Tannehill is a different QB when playing for...

Maybe. But he wasn't playing like a unicorn, a generational talent, until after playing beside Tannehill.

Yeah, I've never thought Fitz was boring. I actually really like the energy he brings. I think it's why he's lasted in the league as long as he...

I've said it many times, and I'll say it again...i became an Alabama fan like 20 years ago, as I had a couple friends in college who were big Bama...

I'm not sure I like that plan. But, if Tua can't read a defense presnap accurately, then he needs to be on the bench.

When the defense holds a team to 21 or less, you should win.

Vrabel

Off course we want our team to win not get a better pick. Literally no one had suggested otherwise. Now would you like to give your input on...

I don't think we can win the Super Bowl this season, so I'm OK with the Patriots winning, as I also think the draft pick is more valuable than...

10 wins should make everyone happy, whether we make the playoffs or not. People were saying 5-8 wins before the season.

Look no further than the Titans the other night. Henry had a ton of yards, but the passing game wasn't too high powered, and they lost.

Yeah, I understand potential deaths. I'm just saying, that that response to talking about the fatality rate isn't really fair. Just something...

Policy is shaped by public perception. Public perception is shaped by the media. So, when you have a panicked public, and we do/did as evidenced...

What don't you understand? We currently have a fatality rate. Covid kills .6% of those it infects. We know that, and we didn't have to have 3...

That's not really fair, man. Just because there is a 1% fatality rate doesn't mean that we're going to have 3 million dead. We have that rate...

Why do you assume that you are consuming the same media as most Americans? If a person is watching CNN/MSNBC/etc, they more than likely believe...

The question that has never been answered, is how many of these wheely with almost 3 co-morbidities, would have died had they contracted the...

I did generalize. I said "no one" as a general comment, not as a specific verified stat.

Again, I did a Bing search for"record covid cases," and have you the first three search results, and none of them did any discussion of test...

Yes, I didn't realize that I couldn't generalize without being treated like I was writing a doctoral thesis.

Also, my point was that the information regarding total number of tests, or percents of tests, is something that I generally have to specifically...

I didn't realize we were being held to such standards. I was not trying to say that you can't find one, but that is far from normal to have...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/11/13/covid-news-costco-ivy-league-el-paso-shutdown-california/6271794002/ No talk of total tests...

I don't watch much news, but when I see or hear reports on the "record" number of positive cases, I never see them talk about how many tests are...

There was quite a bit of outrage in Australia. It's not simply Americans who are complaining about this stuff. Every country has people...

The PCR tests are being run at a cycle threshold, last I read, of 37. That's far far too sensitive. At that threshold, people are testing...

Didn't the Dolphins have a scoop and score against the Cardinals? The offense didn't score all the points...just almost all of them.

Tannehill has 9 completions to 8 different receivers currently.

For sure. It just annoys me that I haven't seen a Patriots post on Facebook all season, then my buddy who is a massive Patriots homer posts an...

Yet somehow the Patriots kicker gets AFC Special Teams Player of the Week??

Fans can have whatever mindset we want. Fans being overconfident has no effect on how the team plays.

Are people still arguing that we aren't a legit playoff contender?

Tua is impressing me today.

Wooowwww

Apparently the defense has decided it can actually score points every week.

We'll see. It ain't over yet.

Yeah man, I guess just pump the brakes. Lol. Tua was pretty much a flawless prospect according to everyone. If the hip was fine, then Tua would...

What was Tua asked to do that he looked completely lost doing? You say these things, but you give no context, nothing tangible to back up what...

Given how reluctant you generally are to speak about things that actually happened in games, I'm not sure how much weight you think your opinion...

If you're a Dolphins fan, that defensive performance should excite you. Of course you shouldn't expect that performance every game, but this...

Fitz has had a career far longer than the average career for QBs, so based on that alone I'd argue that he isn't below average. Mark Sanchez was...

But let's be honest...Fitz wasn't exactly on stacked teams. Again, using win/loss record to judge the play of the QB is silly.

Colin Cowherd says Tua "won't work in the NFL." Guess we won't be making the playoffs.

Actually, there are several studies that show that there is no reason for doctors to wear masks. But we can agree that covering your mouth so you...

This may be a fair point.

Again, your pulling quotes from when they had precision route runners, and a HoF tight end. You had Cassel, Garop, ands other QBs all looking...

No that's not accurate. I've argued pretty consistently that the Patriots offense is actually complex, and you need receivers that run precise...

Well, who actually believed that Cam Newton was capable of running the NE offense? Plus, Cam doesn't have a bunch of great receivers and a HoF...

Yeah, I feel like receivers weren't an issue for Marino...he had great receivers. Crappy run game and poor defenses.

I mean, I was pretty happy watching him in the first half of that game.

I mean, Fitz had 3tds and 0 ints at one point in that game. He took that helmet to helmet hit, the drive stalled, then he threw two picks and no...

I see both sides. I mean, look at a guy like Tannehill. Miami almost cost him a nice paycheck and, probably more importantly to him, the respect...

Exactly right. And people couldn't grasp that simple concept, and couldn't understand how that type of pressure would be incredibly debilitating...

Who. Cares. I mean, you could construct any hypothetical by using restrictive parameters.

He got banned. I talked to him a bit on the other site, but haven't heard from him in forever.

We'll see. This team is playing better than I expected, the defense is starting to come alive. I think they can definitely make a run.

That was Bo Jackson. Ricky was close.

I don't think this is true.

He definitely seemed off after taking that hit. He got popped real good helmet to helmet.

Lmao "We need to know just how much he's capitalizing on opposing defenses' attention to the Titans' run game. And I don't know the answer to...

Man, you've got to let it go. Tannehill is playing at elite levels. Yesterday's game, Tannehill had a 70% completion, 4tds, 360 yards, and Henry...

It was sort of painful watching that game. The Dolphins used to be the team losing by 3 scores at halftime, while amassing under 100 yards of...

Yeah, Tannehill throwing for 300+ and Henry rushing for 200+, and they STILL had to come from behind tells you everything you need to know about...

Fitz was 3-0 at one point. So he was playing really well up until those two picks.

Well well well... https://www.nfl.com/news/panthers-surprising-everyone-with-potent-offense-ryan-tannehill-s-a-top-five-qb#tannehill "Elite QB?...

While I was down at times on Tannehill, I never thought he was a reason why Miami was mired in mediocrity. Good post, Key.

It's just like his tenure in Miami. It's uncanny.

Honest question...but why would stats about Fitzpatrick not be applicable in a thread about whether or not Tua should be starting?

So, I would say this, again, even in his examples, the stats are looking at the results. The model would not be able to predict which teams would...

I just don't think you can ever gain enough data to predict the future. Again, the better your model, the better it might be for long term goals,...

So I kinda disagree with that, in that, whatever model you have for looking at say turnovers, is not going to explain anything to do with Howe the...

Again, though, you're attempting to predict things. I guess there's some value in that, but to me, it's pretty limited. Predicting is useful for...

What happens on the field that isn't related to skill? I mean, you could say that a field goal kicker is affected by wind gusts, but even that is...

Yes, I understand that. But that is why I said that there is a limit to how much stats can apply to a game played by humans. I mean, I...

Fumbles can be random, as to how they bounce, etc, once they leave the players hand. But I agree, random implies it just happens at various...

That's freaking amazing. Too bad Miami couldn't give him some complementary pieces while he was here.

All it takes is actually WATCHING some of these games, and you see Tannehill is an excellent QB, who is driving that offense. But you have to...

Tannehill and the Titans just dismantled the 4-0 Bills. After I kept hearing about SoS.

Tennessee not even trying to run it in the red zone, throw after throw. Clearly they aren't concerned with him playing that way.

I didn't know that, about the limited article sites.

The point was clear. You tried to twist it. You've been harping on number of throws, run game support, etc for months now. I was simply...

We're talking about this type of stuff in regards to stats. Stats don't tell who the QB is throwing to, etc. You keep pointing to his rating...

I can't wait until after the next game, if Tannehill "struggles", and people start chirping. So here is a tidbit for you stat guys. "If Brown...

You can't possibly say that with certainty, if the defense is allowing 30 point shootouts. It's not simply about shouldering more of the load....

You're talking about 3 games, two of which were 30 point shootouts, and you're drawing conclusions about Tannehill...but telling me that I'm...

I didn't say anything about Tannehill. I simply said you reframe reality with stats. Tannehill is putting up points without a dominant running...

Dude. You continuously reframe reality with stats to fit your narrative. Two out of three games, they've scored 30 or more points. The fact...

Whatever. They've put up 30 or more points. If you're expecting a quarterback to consistently score 30 or more points and win shoot outs...

Yeah, I mean, two of those games the titans scored 30 or more points. When you talk about winning by 2 points, it only tells a very small part of...

Tua is not a "developmental QB."

NE had a bunch of roster turnover other than Brady leaving.

Question, cbrad has done a great job researching through play action and it's function as related to running the ball. Since he has discovered...

There's always the possibility that Tannehill was better than people thought, and the team was competitive BECAUSE of him, not being held back...

From the first article, Flores talking about Tua, and playing him: "Look, the honest thing from me is if he was my kid and he had a serious...

Sure I get trying to have a competitive advantage. But using stickum is something else. For me, you wanna be GOAT? Don't be a cheater.

Yeah, I mean Montana was a great in the Walsh system, and Steve Young is arguably GOAT. Add in the other pieces, like Rice, arguably GOAT (not my...

Yes that's right, 9. There were only 4 that went 30+ TDS...that's what I was thinking of. So we have 4 more guys throwing over 100, with the...

What do you think is the cause? Last season, we only had what, 5 QBs finish that high? It seems odd that this is holding steady right now.

You posted an article recently that claimed that Tannehill was driving that offense.

That's all well and good, but Super Bowl winners are almost always really complete teams. To throw even when they know you're throwing is...

But I think it also means that Tannehill was completing passes when needed, extending drives, allowing a Henry to have some more carries. It's...

Henry's ypc has been relatively stable, even last season being 5.1 vs 2018 4.9. But his number of 100+ yard games increased significantly under...

This season has Tannehill, so how would that apply to Henry without Tannehill?

Talking about Tannehill vs Mariota, at least for me, was not about the numbers that each QB put up. It was about the numbers that HENRY put up....

Honestly, Moore is much like Fitz, would have a couple awesome games, then crash and burn. So using 4 games to compare to Tannehill's 12 seems...

:theman:

But we have argued that seasons like those showed Tannehill was better than he was given credit for. When they lost Tannehill to injury, the team...

I'm not saying the whole league is going to deflate. But Tannehill showed last year that he could play at high level. But I'd also be very...

But, for instance, right now you have a guy from SF, Nick Mullins, who has a 95 rating. Do you really think he maintains that? I don't. So I'd...

*Cough* YOU have based it on that. Again, I'm going to go with all the data together that Tannehill has produced since taking over as starter....

You keep saying 11 games...but that's not accurate. It's been what, 16 or more games since he took over as starter?

I mean, not for nothing, but we've been arguing for years that there isn't a ton of difference between most QBs. Again, I do not believe that at...

And? Saying Tannehill is in the top 10 is pretty much exactly what myself and others have been arguing for years. You act like we've been...

So you present numbers that are worse than what Tannehill is projected for, and then extrapolate that to somehow Tannehill is average?

Listen, the average QB in the NFL isn't throwing for almost 4500 yards, 30+TDS and only 5 INTS. In trying to explain it away, you're completely...

Maybe he likes the attitude of people that live there.

I couldn't agree more with this.

My issue is simply this: to win in the playoffs, and to win a Super Bowl, you need more than average players around a superstar QB. So, honestly,...

hahaha No, wasn’t me. I’m at above average but maybe elite if he can sustain this level of play for three or four seasons.

Because YOU brought up that the offense is centered around Henry. Simply pointing out, the offense was putrid without Tannehill. So, even IF...

Weird that the Titans offense was pretty putrid before getting Tannehill.

It's also Andy Reid. Every QB is great in his system. You don't attribute enough credit to coaching stats.

Sure...but if you believe that Tannehill is at best an average QB, then the Titans should have been able to have almost anyone come in and be...

That's an unprovable hypothesis.

Yet Mariota still sucked despite Henry. Lol Give it a rest man.

Yet you couldn't run play action on every okay and expect it to continue to work. Play action is very dependent on down and distance, and score.

I'm confused...I thought Henry was the reason they were successful. Now it's the passing game is what they're winning with...but Tannehill is...

Letting Henry kind of have his way up and down the field is fine if you can stop them in the red zone. However, Tannehill has been phenomenal in...

And this is why we can't actually have a productive discussion. It's simply not a realistic view. If a team DID NOT run, defenses would not come...

So following stats, teams would be better off never running at all.

Pfffffttttt... That's an easy throw that any QB can make.

Win probability doesn't win football games.

If you have Henry, it makes sense to run more than a team who doesn't have Henry, when when you don't have a "comfortable" lead. It doesn't...

And? You've been arguing that Tannehill throws less than average, and that Tennessee relies on Henry. All I'm saying is that including losing...

I don't think that was as impressive as Gesicki's, jmo. I think easier to do Cooper's, given that his body is going the same direction as the...

Same post, same time. Lol. Great minds. Yeah, that was an insane grab.

That one handed grab he made was sick. Ball was high and behind as he was moving across, and he just snagged it. Very impressive.

Again, I said this earlier, and you pretty much ignored it, but when you're looking at run/pass ratio for the league, you're looking at half the...

To be successful in that scenario, though, you have got to have good skill players. If Mahomes was throwing to Hartline/Bess/Naanee do you...

Using league average is kind bad isn't it, as you're looking at losing teams. Losing teams throw more, and skew the balance. Ideally you want...

Completely agree. My whole argument is that I don't think we have a good enough understanding of the factors involved in this case, so that we...

Studies by who? Who funded them? Unless you're talking about politicians taking money after elected, I don't really agree at all with term limits...

I don't believe so, I don't believe that the return on investment would be there. Because you could only be elected once, for say 4 years, you,...

The simple answer to this is freaking term limits. If there were term limits, it would greatly reduce the incentive for dumping money into...

1. You are incorrect about when they can use knee on neck. The link I already provided says this: "The training materials specify: "the maximal...

Being in a low difficulty situation doesn't mean that you're necessarily being asked to make easy throws. The longer the throw, the more...

So your assertion is that he was making the same difficulty of throws in Miami as he was in Tennessee?

I believe it specifies that the suspect is combative and cuffed. The reason Floyd was pulled from the cruiser was because he was combative and...

I'm not saying he didn't use excessive force. I'm saying, how do we know that, in a legal sense. For instance, my first thought, from my...

I honestly couldn't tell you if they were to code. They were built in the last 20 years. But by nice, I meant clean. And I've seen some in my...

No one cares if you measure the balance. It's you're application that it means low volume. Literally no one has a problem with measuring the...

Why do you say the officers in the Breonna Taylor case are dirty? Honestly, I don't understand the anger towards the actual officers in that...

All right then.

It's a strawman because you are seeming to say that I'm denying it's a problem, ands you are basing an argument against something I didn't say. I...

That's a strawman. I never said it wasn't a problem. In fact, I said it's terrible that that scenario happens every day. However, the example...

Well, I think he'd still feel like he threw a ton, even though the back is looking for the ER. Lol Now, he probably wouldn't feel as though he...

Also, that article is interesting... however, there is no way of knowing from that whether the second appraiser wouldn't have given that property...

Do the people that live in the inner cities have a responsibility to create nice neighborhoods? I mean, I see in New Hampshire, which is...

We "put" undesirables in these places? I'm not sure I agree with that. There are a myriad of reasons why cities are a mess, but I think the main...

You're conflating those. Volume doesn't necessarily have anything to do with balance. Balance is simply the percents of run/pass. Volume is the...

People have been disagreeing with your definition all throughout the thread.

Right, but your definition does not agree with the majority. For example, this article pretty clearly puts high volume at 40 attempts and above:...

Yes, I completely agree. I really appreciate your perspective, as you have had to deal with restraining violent individuals, and you understand...

I'm asking if these factors make proving a murder charge more difficult. Like, Chauvin could have acted inappropriately, and very well might...

Yes, I understand what you're saying. We all do. However, when you say that Tannehill throwing 40 times isn't a high volume game, that isn't...

Yes, I know it's the definition YOU have used. However, YOUR definition of high volume is different than what everyone else means when they say...

The question I have, is not whether or not there was a struggle, but how much effect the drugs in his system, combined with his health problems,...

That is pretty funny.

Listen, I understand what you're doing. Re-explaining it doesn't change anything. 40+ attempts is high volume, it doesn't matter if there were...

Thanks for sharing that. I definitely agree, I think that fear causes many of these situations where officers end up using deadly force. Knowing...

You are constantly equating them. To the point that you're arguing that 40+ pass attempts isn't high volume.

No, Guy, I gave an extreme hypothetical example to illustrate to you the problem with equating high percent of dropbacks as the same as high...

1. There is literally no way of knowing, just by seeing 15 throws a game constituting 80% of offensive snaps, that he was sacked a lot. It could...

I know exactly what a pass dropback is. My example of a QB averaging 15 throws a game on the season, and dropping back on 80% of the teams...

Look, high volume for a QB is not about what percent of snapped a QB throws on. High volume is the sheer number of times a QB throws. If a QB...

Chalk it up to he knows exactly what he's doing, and he's been doing it all along.

That's a such a strawman. I never said it was right to have that policy, or anything about the morality of it. I merely referenced the legality...

If it's meaningless, why bring it up though? And then to tack a hypothetical situation on top of a meaningless stat seems to serve no purpose.

First game with an extremely limited off-season, and you're chomping at the bit to make it mean something? I mean, come on man. I hate playing...

When his performance is referred to as "pedestrian."

"The autopsy report from Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office concludes the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law...

So, all I'm saying is, this case rose to prominence because it was supposed to show police executing a man in the street. Like I said, up until a...

Not at all what I'm saying. But this is why I said earlier it's really hard to even have a conversation. If you even try to talk about the facts...

For manslaughter, they'd have to prove that Chauvin's actions contributed to his death, right? So if there was no bruising on his neck, and they...

Right, that's kinda what I figured. But looking at stats from urban areas, which are higher crime rates than rural areas, and are often higher...

There is a massive difference between neglect and murder. Can you state with 100% certainty that Chauvin violated policy? Honest question. Up...

Are they comparing to arrests in the same areas? I mean, are they comparing minority arrests in like Boston to white arrests in Montague? There...

I mean, if that is something they are trained to do, and it's part of their approved way of handling it, then what did Chauvin do wrong? Legally...

But, just for sake of discussion, IF it turns out that Chauvin did not kill him by kneeling on his neck, but that it was the fentanyl and meth,...

One other thing, and this is where I really disagree with the general sentiment, I guess, is he didn't die over a fake 20. He died from his...

Of course, those poverty areas are targeted because they are high in crime. It's like a never ending cycle. But, I think drug laws are a huge...

Yeah man, that's where I was when I first saw the video when it came out. However, take it with a grain of salt, but the medical report released...

There is a third option: fentanyl and meth killed him.

So where I've started to question things in regards to Floyd...knee on the neck is an actual restraint that those officers are trained in....

Really? People getting government assistance often can't have an actual job, as that income will cause them to lose that assistance, even if they...

It's pretty semantic, really. The defense played at a level that should have given up 31 points. They got lucky to only give up 21. If someone...

Of course production is what matters, but at the same time, many factors can affect production. I'm saying it's not like Indy had Terry Kirby at...

I'm asking why is it ok for them to use their work environment to be political? The viewer of the event isn't interested in their opinion on...

The offense was almost exactly the same. I'm not talking about production, I'm talking about the players. You traded a great running back for...

Yes, the numbers between the two were relatively equal, with Edge getting a few more rushing TDS. It wasn't like Indy went from a garbage back to...

Dude, they haven't been in a bubble for the past year. They weren't in a bubble last year when they were all kneeling. They weren't in a bubble...

Are most pro athletes doing rallies? I'm aware that there are a few, but in one NFL have you have 106 pro athletes, many of whom are espousing...

'98 Faulk had 1300 yards and 10 total tds '99 Edge had 1500 yards and 17 total tds So you're claiming that that 200 yards or so and 7 TDS gave...

How many of these players are doing anything Mon-Sat to fight these injustices? How many of these players are holding rallies at City Hall on on...

Dude yes. I've been trying to explain this forever, and you just nailed exactly what I've been trying to say to people.

No they're not a set team. They lost for starting caught linebackers in the off-season. I'm also not sure the Cam can run the incredibly complex...

It's like to also point out that Marvin, Wayne, and Clark were all first round draft picks. This is what I'm talking about when I talk about...

You haven't proven that at all. Regardless of how the team was assembled, Peyton was on a really good team, with consistent coaches and HoF...

No. The Chiefs beat the Titans and the 49ers.

Ummm...yes it does, when you understand that that they actually did tank. The team was not that bad, they purposefully made themselves bad to...

Post #9364 Why can't I compare the situation Tannehill was in to theirs? Especially when people keep pointing to Miami as evidence that last...

You're kinda getting semantic here, though. Both in Denver, and Indy, Peyton was part of an assembled team. Dark already listed the players in...

Being snarky doesn't change the fact that he was playing for a large portion of time with HoF receivers, TE, and running back. Oh, along with not...

The point with regards to Indy is that they didn't simply add Peyton to the previous year's bad team. He was a piece of a whole team that was...

I WAS TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT MANNING IN DENVER. Stop obfuscating and changing the parameters. Saying Denver had a terrible defense prior to...

Didn't that Denver team have a pretty stacked defense when Peyton was there? 2012, they were #4 in points allowed. And then again, in 2015, 4th...

I think what was impressive that season for Foles was 27 TDS and 2 ints. And didn't that turn into a pretty massive contract for him?

For me it's not so cut and dried, as much of what we're discussing is the Dolphins teams and games from when Tannehill was here. To each his own,...

Situational doesn't mean he had better players, though. I mean, look at NE... Their wide receivers were phenomenal in their system, but who is...

Lol @ talking about Marino going at 27. He dropped that far because of the off the field rumors, cocaine, etc. He was going to be a top pick...

If what he thinks doesn't matter, why are you posting his opinions then?

Ohhhhh...so you take the predictions of his that you like, but you disregard the ones you don't? He's pretty clear why he thinks NE will struggle.

Why leave out where he says that Tannehill is the QB of the future for Tennessee? Lol. You pull out part of the article, and try to spin it as...

If you read it, he says he's concerned about NE being able to rebound from losing four starting-caliber linebackers. So it's not about Brady,...

I mean, Tannehill got $91 million guaranteed, that's a pretty good contact for a 32 year old with some injury history. But if he was 27 pulling...

Interesting move, the Titans are acquiring Jadeveon Clowney. Building that defense. That's good news for Tannehill.

But that order is not really dependent on ability alone. Age is a big factor. Tannehill is relatively old, so that will affect the contract he's...

No. Again, why do you insist on trying to twist things? What I said was if Tannehill was 5 years younger, I bet he'd have gotten a bigger...

How is it related?

Mahomes also gets more money based on age. If Tannehill had a season like he just had, and he was 5 years younger, I bet he'd have gotten a...

Have you ever played any organized sports?

No, that's not true. You really love trying to boil things down to only two things. Did you play organized sports growing up?

I mean, I think that's pretty much my assessment of Tannehill.

You really don't understand teams and chemistry at all. Honest question: did you ever play any organized sports growing up? I don't ask this to...

I'm just saying you throw a QB in there that definitely needs time to develop, what do you expect to happen? When you're dead last, it isn't...

The 2018 Cardinals were the 32nd ranked offense in the league. Lol. Don't know how they were historically, but that was a terrible offense that year.

I honestly don't understand why we wouldn't keep him on the cheap as a backup?

I believe he has the skills to be at least in the top 10. With garbage around him, he didn't have results like that. With good surroundings, his...

It's like you haven't read anything posted even on this page.

And this is the Merry go round. You insist that the Miami years are the real Tannehill. You revert to looking at results. You ignore the...

Will 3, then you're arguing against something no one has claimed, and maybe that is the problem. Literally no one is claiming that Tannehill is...

I've given the example before, but take all the starting QBs in the league, and stick them out in a skills competition...throwing through various...

Surroundings allow QBs to really show their skills. Just like it benefits other players. Damien Williams looked very different for KC than for...

Damn right.

To be fair, I thought Rosen looked better than the results said, in his shorttime he got last season.

It all depends on what you mean. Like I said earlier, Tannehill might be a better actual passer than Mahomes, but Mahomes is far better at...

No...it's that you use the maths to prove that the levels he hit were somehow not really the levels he hit. :2guns::crapstrom:

I think that was exactly his point. Lol. You know it wasn't supposed to be an actual mathematical formula, right? :couch:

I mean, does it matter? Clearly Tennessee was pleased with his play, and signed him to a pretty good contract as a result. Would certainly seem...

Were they more or less successful? I mean, honestly, it makes sense to try to maintain balance. I'm don't understand why you think that's a knock.

So that chart shows that Tannehill played better when trailing, and the majority of his throws came when trailing? That doesn't sound like a QB...

I'm not really proposing anything. I'm simply saying, looking at results doesn't tell you why it was low. You are showing it was low, and then...

A couple people have gone through and shown play by play that it was dictated by score, at least in some games. No one has gone through each and...

You have got to actually look at games to see why his passing volume was higher or lower. Just looking at results doesn't really tell you anything.

Does that factoring take into account the level of talent other than QB in those teams? I don't see how any conclusion that doesn't take that...

I'm not sure how you read all that and came away with me saying that. You put up team win % to try to show that Wilson is responsible in Seattle...

Seattle had an elite defense and what many would argue was an elite run game when they started with Wilson. Now that Wilson is getting paid, yes,...

Never said that was my position. Was just pointing out that using Dalton for your example doesn't work in your favor. My position still is that...

Really? This is your argument? They've been building around Dalton for almost a decade. So if you're saying Dalton is average, than an NFL team...

Come on, that's such an invalid argument. They're aren't as many QBs as receivers. Just more players needed on teams at receiver. So more kids...

I don't believe you've been able to prove that it's based largely on QB ability. All the ability in the world isn't going to make an offense...

You make a statement that top passing offenses are a result of QB ability. At best you have correlation for that. But you never try to find the...

I really disagree that having a potent offense is based mostly aground the QBs individual ability. The great QBs often are on the field with...

Just saying, the average tenure is 4 years. Neither head coach for Miami in that span made it four years, and Philbin was fired after the first...

So neither of the permanent head coaches lasted 4 seasons, and he had five different OCs from 2012-2018. Joe Philbin was fired 4 games into the...

Tannehill had 3 HCs in five years, correct? How is that average?

Sure. Coaches getting fired and being no longer employed in the league is definitely a sign that Tannehill got good coaching. LMAO. If the...

Nope. Nice try. Just because I believe that Tennessee has better coaching than Miami, does not equal me saying that Miami coaching was below...

I think the coaching environment in Tennessee is much better than it was in Miami. And we know that the coaching environment in Miami was terrible.

NO. I HAVE NEVER SAID THEY WERE DIFFERENT FROM THE NORM. I simply stated what happened during Tannehill's tenure in Miami. YOU believe that to...