Interview with Ireland

See this is where we differ, padre....I absolutely don't want them trying to develop this kid as a QB. For me that's a total waste of time, talent (he should be a multi purpose player) and roster spot. And it makes that pick at #44 a total mystery of a joke....

 

I honestly thought you were talking about a WR named Mutha Lode.

Depends on if they are worth it(and Boldin is worth it)

 

Dpate...JS....i dig both your styles...i hope you two can find some common ground..

As far as Pat white goes...for me, the excitement came from him enhancing the "ronnie brown formation"...{thats my new name, cause the wildcat is dead for me} thru a myriad of roles..WCQBX...The goal for me was to get him on the field in some capacity on every wildcat play...i have never heard one logical reason why that vision never transpired, when it clearly makes sense to always have a player with those threats accompany ronnie brown in the formation...he can certainly athletically, play the role of chad henne holdin his balls out wide, he can certainly run the jet sweep, he can certainly catch a ronnie brown pass, he can certainly, at the last second, become interchangable with ronnie, and execute a qb play, from the wildcat set, or switch it up, and go conventional on the fly for a play...I mean REALLY make that position of WCQB, interchangable, but never, let them leave each other during....all this with one objective in mind, clear the box somewhat with pat on the field, so ronnie and that oline can have room to reach a level of power running thats never been achieved in the modern era...A spread power run offense.

 

It's absolutely baffling to me how he's been used and how they've spent so much time trying to make him an NFL QB, instead of just using him as a play maker....

When he was drafted did you expect to hear them tell us they drafted him as a QB only and he would be our back up QB?.....at number 44 over all?

 

no, i did'nt expect the whole exclusively at qb stuff, i'am tryin now to understand what their thought process is about the spread....The wildcat is enough for me, and iam all about evolving THAT formation, but the spread offense?, lol, i dont know if iam ready for that..

Hell, lets just draft Tebow in the 3rd, and go all out.

 

I just cant understand why he was'nt on the field when ronnie was executing...it seems right...

Henning?..what is your vision for this hybrid offense?

 

This is the role I was expecting him to be in. We trot him out there randomly to hand the ball off, why couldn't we have trotted him out there to be out wide instead of Henne, or put him in the wildcat position. I'm on board with the Pat White pick, and I don't mind him coming in randomly, but can we see a little creativity please? I was really expecting to see some Pat White wrinkles last time we played the Pats, and we got the option. Hopefully this week we will see some of the stuff that we've all been talking about and hoping for. Seems like we always save some stuff for the Pats

Aside from that, isn't one of the big positives of the Wildcat the amount of time the other team has to spend preparing for it? Why don't we expand the package with some simple substitutions so that they have to prepare even more. Some of the stuff being done this year just makes me wanna choke our staff.

 

I too believe in the formation, one thing i do respect and agreed with at the time with our coaches, was when Pat was drafted, most everyone immediatley thought he was the new man for the cat......no way baby...noone replace's ronnie brown in that formation....he's too good..

I really want the player, the rookie, and the formation, to grow together. wish people would be more patient with that aspect.

 

Hell I think Tebow would actually be better at what it s they are trying to do

But no, lets don't...lol....love Tebow but we need to get back to reality and the NFL.

And yeah, I'm with ya......if you're gonna run the spread, leave Henne out there and let him take some shot gun snaps with 4 wide.

You know I loves me some Wildcat but I think they've gotten carried away with trying to get too cute out there.

Back to White tho....to me they are totally wasting this kids talent and why they aren't figuring out ways to get him the ball in the open field is just mind boggling.

 

Beyond the questions that images raise(Which have nothing to do with the topic at hand), that's really not telling us anything. Johnson is a little bit bigger than White, but it's not a huge difference. Nor are there any lack of NFL runners in White's size range/

The only obvious thing here is you're not answering because you can't.

 

Why? White has the Qb resume that Tuna looked for at least a 3 yr stater, 25 wins and 60% completition rating.

Add in he is the all time NCAA leader in rushing and what is not to like?

When he overthrew Ginn in Atlanta that pass easily went what 60 yds?

 

As cute as we got with ricky williams the other day I can see all the stops being pulled out with pat white against NE

 

You might be right. But, I just as soon see them power rush Ricky and Lex against them. I think NE can be beaten physically. No need to finesse them with trick plays. Besides, to this point (and without Ronnie), how much success have we really had running trick/gimmick plays?

JMHO...

 

As far as NE goes i believe we can have success on the ground. NOLA whooped em, but they still put up 17 points on a defense that was flying around the ball monday. They are as dangerous team, can score at will most often. We have a shot bur not by running two 9 minute drives and using our defense, we need something to get us those CHUNK yards. Be it a gadget, pat package, wildcat or charlie weis on our sideline making faces at belicheat

 

lol...ok bro

You keep waiting for Pat White to develop into an NFL QB, kinda like you used to think Fiedler would....remember those days, cuz I do.;]

Meanwhile I'll talk to others on here that aren't arrogant for no reason.....

 

And that's why he was such a highly touted prospect...and most of what he brings to the table. Not a bad passer mind you, but still.

I'm not hating on Pat White, I just think that the only way we get the value we need to get out of that pick is to use him in a multi purpose role.

 

Disagree for a couple of reasons, for example Antwan Randal El played a slash role at IU, White has only played Qb, why take a guy away from what he does well in order to train him to play a totally different position as well as create a need for another Develpmental Qb?

That is creating 2 holes to fill with at best a doubtful outcome.

 

What he did well was being dangerous in the open field, it's not like it's a big stretch to project him as a multi purpose player.There's a good reason that the scouts were wanting to see him run routes.

Taking him at #44 as a developmental QB only, should get someone fired. If he ever ends up competing with Henne for the starting position, those will be dark days for this team. I still don't buy that's what they had in mind......just doesn't make sense.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QQnYfRBNPU"]YouTube- Pat White NFL COMBINE 2009[/ame]

whose side do we take? some guy complaining on a message board because he doesn't agree with the choice made by a group of professionals who are sought out and highly paid, to make these decisions....

or the group of professionals, whose point of view seems to be back by even more professionals outside of our own organization.

if only there were some way to gauge who has more credibility when it comes to things like this.

maybe there is a plus side to taking a QB at 44th who out threw the QB taken 5th. even more so when you sprinkle in his scrambling ability.


we all KNOW pat white can throw AND run. but you don't want him to be developed as a QB. you want him worked out at receiver. ive got a question, have you ever seen him catch one ball? i haven't.

lets recap:
you dont want a guy developed as a QB, even though he was a great QB in college, even though he out performed all other QBs at the combine.
you want him to play receiver even though you have no idea if he can catch. well it sounds like you just got things all figured out.

why dont we send bill parcells packing and put you in office. what the **** does parcells know anyway?

 

First of all I don't care who's side you take.....it's a fan forum.

Secondly, it's my opinion, on a fan forum....and you're welcome to have yours.

There's a good reason scouts were disappointed, even pissed off to show up at his pro day and him not run routes, as they had expected. It's because regardless of all his college success, he just wasn't that impressive as an NFL QB prospect......and nothings changed.

Again, nothing personal against White......it's not like I'm "Ginn-bashing" him. I think the kid is a gamer, I just don't want to see them waste this pick trying to develop him as competition or a back up to Henne.

I'm still waiting, kind of like those scouts that attended his pro day were....

You really just don't get the whole fan forum/discussing opinions and all, do you? Or is this just a vehicle for you to get personal with ppl while you hide behind a keyboard?

 

I think there might be some lines getting crossed here when discussing Pat white...and thats because we dont know whether or not the regime wants to develope him as the proset qb, or are they thinking wildcat qb spread qb...

If he became the starter, would they go more to a wildcat spread look, or would they try to run their normal conventional proset with Pat at the helm?..

I embrace them developing him as Wildcat Spread QB, I dont as trying to make him conventional...were just not sure what their thinking at this point.

From what i have seen, it looks to be in favor of us developing him as the wildcat spread guy, and if he does have to play a stretch of games, i would think the offense would favor more wildcat spread plays then conventional...Thats what iam hopin for...also, when it comes to the x position and catching a pass, thats about enhancing the ronnie brown formation, which should not be messed with, only enhanced, and he can do that, while he's learning the other stuff.

 

Now we're going from evasiveness you making stuff up? Excellent work.

I'm not waiting for Pat White to develop into an NFL quarterback, either. The reality is, the bulk of the stuff he's going to do is going to come lined up as a quarterback, and in terms of roster considerations, he's got to know the traditional aspects of the condition well enough that he can be relied upon in case of injury.

 

Really?

So you're not expecting him to have success as an NFL QB?

 

I've got no idea what he's going to do as a "traditional" quarterback. If he turns into a quality one, rather than just a decent backup odds are it's going to be probably another year or so before he's gotten the kind of experience for that.

In terms of him being the Spread Option guy? Yeah, I'm expecting him to have success. There's not a whole hell of a lot of reason why that cannot work in the NFL,

 

Actually, I am expecting him to have success as a plain ol' drop back Qb in the N-F-L.

To me, White is a high character type who will put in the work it takes to succeed, he has the physical tools imho to be another David Garrard type of Qb, not outstanding as a passer but pretty good, nice arm, can run, throws a good deep ball etc.

I see no reason why White could not be that same type of player

 

Sorry I just don't agree with taking the whole college offense thing that far.....I'm good with the wildcat but sitting someone like Henne so that Pat White can run that Pistol package, just doesn't seem logical to me. Nor do I think it's going to be effective, long term, as you seem to think.

I'm not the only that was projecting White as a multi purpose player, more so than a QB......you can add those very disappointed scouts at his pro day to that list.

Generally speaking, spread QB's coming out of college either change positions or end up as back ups or just wash out. I'd rather not see our high 2nd rounder go to waste.

If you don't agree, that's fine

 

Huge reach at #44 if you're projecting him as a drop back passer....sorry just can't agree with you on this one, padre.

 

He was the #5 rated Qb on the pre draft boards, and now he is a reach at #44?

Sanchez at #6 was reach, White was a good value particularly in our offense.

Let me reiterate, most #2 Qb's...never see the field, Henne played in one game in 08 and that was in a blowout, White is expected to develop as a Qb as well as play in the WC.


White has the tools of Garrard, runs better as well.

 

Being the #5 rated QB has nothing to do with where he was taken....you could be the #5 and get taken in the 5th round. Which as a drop back QB prospect, is probably where he belonged.

If he was such a great QB prospect, why were the scouts so pissed off that he didn't run routes at his pro day? Is that a normal request made of QB prospects?

 

He was the #4 ranked prospect, with three Qb's going in the first round, #44, the 4th Qb taken.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-combinewinners022209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Because he out threw Sanchez he was then supposed to run routes? That is absurd, find the scouts who were "pissed" and ask them why he was the MVP of the Senior bowl as a Qb.

 

So what about Chad Henne, Jake Long, Phil Merling, Kendall Langford, Donald Thomas, Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, Davone Bess, Brian Hartline? Those Players contribute quite a bit.

So if you hold Ireland accountable for making a mistake with White, by that same token you have to give him credit for all the good picks he made.

 

Great first draft.....absolutely

In the second draft we did well in addressing the secondary but I'm just not thrilled with the White pick or drafting more complimentary WR's.

I'm actually more concerned with FA.....not real impressed with that so far. Would like to see that area improve, that's all.

 

And yet Snatchez went top five......guess that didn't hold much weight now did it?

We disagree padre, we'll just have to wait and see

 

Oh I hear ya man. I want playmakers. I want stars. I want a player or two that is HOF worthy some day. We need playmakers on both sides of the ball. Right now we are a team of solid role players.

The foundation has been set for this team. But we lack fire power and overall explosion. Ireland and Parcells said it would take at least 3 years. We are in year 2. As pissed off as I am, I will not call for anybodys head quit yet

The thing for me is our good FA signees and our good draft picks outweigh that bad ones by a lot. So I'm still patient.

 

the taking side part was sarcasm because you are *****ing about pat white being a QB prospect. you keep mentioning you want him as a receiver. you think the little bit you have seen is enough to say he will never be a QB, but at the same time you are demanding him as receiver without seeing ANYTHING necessary to judge him as one.

the ONLY thing you have seen is his scrambling ability. which is half of his threat as a QB.

i think you are the one who is not getting it. i joined in the discussion. thats how this works.


a vehicle for me to get personal? where in my post did i get personal? dont mistake my response for a personal attack, if your feelings were hurt.

you just seem to be taking this discussion personal. you seem to be getting very uppity with anyone who disagrees with you. and you have repeatedly mentioned scouts being upset about him not running routes at his pro day. were you one of those upset scouts? is that why you are coming off defensive and emotional about this topic?

 

I've actually seen quite a bit of him throughout his career......I want them to develop him as a play maker. What many of us were under the impression he was drafted to be.

And no I haven't seen him as a receiver, I would "like" to...that was what I was "*****ing" about.

The rest of your post is just you continuing to be a smart *** so you have fun with that, with someone else....peace

 

yes.

/end discussion.

 

David Garrard has an inch an about 50 pounds on Pat White.