The 'Dynamic Duo" have been toasted, and taken to school, by some of the best WR's and QB's to play the game. That was to be expected. However, giving praise for being turned every which way, and getting burned, is over. They are now no longer rookies, and have to step it up. Getting praise from Moss, after getting burned for 140 yards, is no longer acceptable. Time to SHOW IT! FYI, I believe they will be better that Madison & Surtain, and our best CB's ever. It's time they showed it.
That was funny. This is real. After a training camp, 4 pre-season games, and 10 regular season games, no one is any longer a rookie. They both need to play as they should.
man i just wish that somehow over the offseason smith is gonna try to get davis attitude and becomes way more physical then he is now, with his size he should lay a lick at least once each game
Agreed, unless he becomes the second coming on NEON. IMO, we are being too kind to the rookies, and they are reading all the press.
See, I just can not agree with that. Vontae wasn't even the starter when the season opened. Just because they made it throught 14 games, doesn't make them vets. They are still rookies, they are STILL learning ins and outs of the game. I agree with you that they both get toasted, and that people praise them too much for every little thing, but at the same time we can't blame fellow dolfans for being excited about our future at corner. It looks like we have two greats-in-the-making. Should we stop wroshiping them? Yes (not stopping from getting a custom made VT jersey ;0) ) Should we expect them to play like vets? No Not exactly sure what that even means.
El Torro PooPoo! They are still rookies, and will be rookies until the next crop of rookies come in. Period!!!!! And then we have to worry about the sophomore year when they think they are more than they really are. They are not veterans until the veterans on the team say they are, not a fan on a message board.
Vontae got burned for a td vs moss, but do you forget he interceted them too? This doesn't happen very often especially not by a rookie. Reggie wayne was held to under 70 yards (IIRC) also by a rookie. This also does not happen very often. They have stepped up. Our starting vet was lost for the season, these two have been gamers ever since. And no their not going to be perfect every game, rookie or not. But they sure do take away the big plays more often than not by some of the best passer reciever combos' in the nfl. Just wait to see what they do to mediocre qb's they have comming up. Say bye bye passing game of our competition.
these guys are doing well at an extremely difficult and vulnerable position. all corners get beat at some point. and these guys don't have a ton of veteran leadership and smarts to help them back there. they're doing it on their own, and they've done a great job, bringing their respective styles to our D. at times, they've made amazing plays too. there's a ton of football left in this season, and yes its still their rookie season. these guys will be learning and growing for a while. get used to it.
Incredible how easy it is to sit here and judge these young men, we have no idea really how hard it is physically, mentally, and emotionally for them to do what they do. They are still rookies and will be until the season ends. I for one think they're doing damn well for their level of inexperience. The things that are being used to beat them are moves that cannot be learned how to overcome just by teaching, they come at a cost, and we're paying that occasionally. Have a little patience, we will soon enough have quite possibly the best CB tandem in the NFL.
the fact is they ARE rookies. the fact is moss has had bigger and better games against "veteran" cornerbacks. fact is champ bailey and charles woodson have had bad games....and bad stretches of games.....even below average seasons. fact is they have played better than anyone could imagine at this time in their careers, they have showed great promise, and have played some of the best quarterbacks and receivers in the game (brees, manning, brady, rivers, ryan) fact is.....vontae has a pick 6, has intercepted tom brady, has been very good against the run, and sean smith has defended alot of balls, and has shut down guys named TO and reggie wayne all at the age of 22.. these guys are going to be amazing. not good, not average.....but amazing. but they are gunna take lumps. the fact that you say they need to show something to you is a joke....you obviously havent watched the dolphins this year, or have no idea what your watching. we hit and hit big time on these 2 draft picks. the fact is they are 22 and 21 years old.......barely legal to drink alcohol....let these guys learn the system, learn the speed of the game.....and watch them explode.
Well said, and agreed to a degree. I have seen them making the same mental mistakes that should have been corrected by now. I am not saying they are vets. I am saying they are no longer rookies.
Id like to hear what "same" mistakes youve seen? I understand that this is your opinion, im just asking you to explain the basis of your opinion. Why are they no longer rookies? Because they made it 14 games?
GREAT SONG!!! It was Shula or JJ who said that after the first half of the season, we no longer have rookies. They have had the time to adjust/adapt and learn the speed of the game in the NFL. I am certain it was said, and I agree.
oh its that easy? than every team helps corners with reggie wayne......he wont be that good right? it was no props for smith....it was safety help!!! thats the antidote to stop reggie wayne.....glad we were the first team to think of it
I agree, as I stated on the openning post. However, we are getting carried away by their attitude and future, not their play. Just being a realistic SOB. LOL
They both need to play as they should? What a ridiculous statement Mr. Impatient. These kids are starting in the NFL in their first season. Did you expect them to be out there this soon and playing well. Please tell me how they should be playing as rookies on the island in the NFL. These two have done a fine job.
no one is being carried away......if you were realistic you would realize they have amazing potential, but they wont be probowl corners in one season....thats NOT realistic. they have played just fine for being rookies. i think your expectations are what unrealistic
As I recall, when Peyton was asked about Smith shutting down Wayne, he laughed and said he had safety help all day as well as a third guy some of the time. I threw to the other side, which was open. I'm sure you know your football but, Peyton "may" know a bit more. Everyone needs to understand that I picked Davis and Smith as our draft picks, and believe that they are both of All Pro potential. I just do not see seeing them that way yet. They deserve the same criticism as Wilson gets, and it has not been forthcoming.
Speaking of ridiculous, did you take a look at the pic which accompanies your posts? I believe this is a football forum. And you wish to be taken seriously? LOL
You make a fair point. I have gone a bit to far to make mine. All I am saying is that in the minds of most, S & D can do no wrong, and that is FAR from being correct.
agreed. some people think they are madison and surtain ALREADY. which isnt true. but like you said....they will eventually pass them. but expecting too muc h from them too soon is just as ridiculous as the people thinking they are already superstars.....
Oh no baby, there is no "too soon" we are in the playoff hunt, no excuses, they are on the field, they are expected to play as well as any other Starting Cb in the NFL. Smith needs to tackle better and play with more fire, Davis has to concentrate a bit more and not gamble quite as much. When VD gambles and misses, long plays result, Moss...70 yds...Crocthery..50 yds...
I'm not sure what picture you speak of, but in his avatar, that's Shane and Manny, two very serious Dolphin fans.
How did Vontae "gamble" on that play? http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009110805/2009/REG9/dolphins@patriots/watch He gave him a 5-6 yard cushion. Moss darts across the field, and catches VD with a jab. Thats a GREAT play in Mosses part. I couldn't find the replay of the Cotch play...But it was this or that play. It was a PERFECTLY thrown ball, VD went for the pick, Nacho placed the ball perfectly, hitting Cotch while he was running full stride. He makes the catch, VD makes the tackle its not even a first down. Why do i feel that we already had this debate? lol
Vontae got to flat on Moss and he ran away from VD, that is how Moss turned the corner on that crossing route. Good Db's don't have to leave their feet to try and break up the pass, Davis does and when he misses the long play ensues. "But" if the ball is underthrown Davis has a chance at a Int, imho that is why he plays Wr in that manner, he is going for the pick. Well, that fine, but with 6 games to go if he does that he has come up with the play or suffer the jeers.
They are rookies, they are going to be rookies until the end of this year. I don't want to even get into the fact that they are both entering getting close to the point in which most rookies hit the wall. BTW, Surtain and Madison didn't play this much this early in their careers. I don't think Madison started a game until the last 4 games of his rookie year. Pat didn't start until about 20 games into his career.
Thats not gambling. Thats a technical mistake. Or he got lazy, whatever. Thats not a "gamble" in my book. Parde, think of what in the world what you just wrote. Thats what im saying. It wasn't a good throw, it was a PERFECT throw. Vontae gambled and lost. But he gambled when odds where in his favor. I think its safe to say that both guys are only gonna get better
No he wasn't. Payton must have forgot how Wilson was part of the reason that his TE had a HUGE day...
And Wilson has won a superbowl. How any dolphan is not supremely impressed by the play of these two corners is beyond me. WE have not had any corners since the surtain / madison days that even come close to being as good in the secondary as these two have already shown. and they've only played a little over half of their first season in the NFL. But i will note, if people expect them to be CHamp Bailey and Nhamdi Asougha in their first half season they need a serious reality check.
THanks Marty, i always wondered who those two were in the endzone at phin games. I absolutley love the passion those two guys have. Thats what we need to see more of from our fanbase. When we pack our house night in night out, i will think those two were the pioneers of great gear wearing dolphans. Now i know their names, so damn cool.
Not so Aqua C, Will Allen and Andre Goodman finished last season on a high note, Goodman went on a streak where he was tipping passes in the last half of the season. Goodman played well enough down the stretch that the Broncos paid him what 19 million in cash upfront? False comparison, what they have to do is play better via either finishing plays (Smith has dropped 3 Int's this year) and Davis should begin showing better technique/judgment imho. Listen to what Sean Smith himself said http://www.miamidolphins.com/aquavision/video/sean-smith-interview-112609 Vontae as well: http://www.miamidolphins.com/aquavision/video/vontae-davis-interview-112709
They have to be and are held accountable for their play, absolutely. But that doesn't mean we should view them as veterans. I don't care what the coaches say, these guys are in the deep end of the pool for the first time in their lives. Their bodies are used to having 4-5 weeks until their next game, assuming they've reached a bowl. Not gearing up for the stretch run. And as such, they are facing experienced men who've been there and won't be slowing down. So while the speed of the game and some other facets of the NFL are no longer new to them, there are still plenty that are. As far as their game itself, I don't recall seeing a lackluster performance. I am seeing a good level of consistency. While it sucks at the time, I'm not really concerned about many of the bad plays or TD's. Most of them have left me thinking "they'll get that with some seasoning". I really can't think of a corner that didn't make technical mistakes and wasn't victimized as a rookie. It happens to all of them. Most of their problems are coming against the league's elite, which is all the more encouraging. I think Vontae is clearly the better, more complete player. I think the sky is the limit for him. OT: If Jimmy said he'd cut Deion, it was the most foolish statement he ever made. Then again, he tried to explain away Randy Moss with Larry Shannon.
Well said Muck, I do think that both are being sold short when it comes to the remaining 6 games to me they can and will play better after the miniature bye week. And they have a great teacher in Todd Bowles, when Jason Allen can break up a sure TD pass to Randy Moss in the endzone you know Bowles is a damn good secondary coach, in 08 Moss would have toasted Jason Allen, this year, his play doesn't even rate a mention.
Again, lets "baby" the Fins. Hey, "you want the nfl, go to the NFL". This is the NFL and im sick of people giving passes for being a rookie. For smith, its already been 14 games. Again, this is the NFL where a player will make more money than several people combined will ever make in their lifetime and they only have to perform around 30 minutes more or less a game. Wheres the competitive spirit nowadays? Enough with this "potential" business because if thats the case, i see "potential" in Vontae and not Sean Smith. You cant teach aggressiveness, especially when a player has already reached the professional level.
I haven't seen anything to suggest that either of our rookies lack competitive spirit. I've seen the exact opposite. Let's not confuse an error with a lack of effort. I agree on Smith though. It's like Parcells says, "If they don't bite as puppies, they ain't gonna bite". But we have to remember that three years ago, Smith was a WR. So there's still a lot of room for him to grow at the position. But I think he's more of a finesse player. I don't think he'll ever be on Davis' level from a hitting/tackling standpoint. Davis is the better athlete to boot. And his body lends to that style of play better than Smith's IMO.
