***OFFICIAL*** Ted Ginn Jr's stats since Henne has been the starter...

Seems to me like last night was the first game we've targeted Ginn on short and intermediate routes. In the other games, Ginn has primarily been a deep option. Nice to see him work the sidelines and pick up a couple first downs.

 

Looking at these numbers I suspect Pennington was better for Ginn than Henne is -- not ideal, of course, but Pennington generally threw a very accurate, soft, catchable ball. Henne throws rockets, e.g. on the big third-down pickup by Bess just before RW's long TD run. That was a great catch of a very tough throw.

But presumably Henne will get better at modulating his throws, and he'll still be able to make throws Pennington couldn't dream of.

 

So, for the record, even though you pointed out his play in the Colts game - 11 catches and over 100 yards - he was horrible before last night.?

While I would be the first to admit Ted has been up and down all season, as have many others on this team, if you drop his production from both Jets games we would be sitting at 3-7 and 1-3 (Div) versus 5-5 and 3-1 (Div) not to shabby for a guy with "Horrible" hands, hmmmm.

BTW the link for all of the Wide Receiver stats is here:

http://stats.oregonlive.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=053&year=2009

Look in the Categories section for drops, targets, and other interesting info.

Everything you wanted to know but didn't think to ask.

 

Don't kill the messenger? What should you do when the messenger's message is always the same and always negative?

When someone posts something like this...

...or this

...it shows an agenda rather than someone just passing along a stat or someone who wants to see the player do well. Be honest about the reason you started the "official" thread rather than insult our intelligence.

As for the OP, players spend months leading up to the season getting reps in, building confidence, build chemistry, getting timing down, learning each other's strengths, weaknesses, tendencies, etc. Wouldn't it stand to reason that there might be some chemistry issues once the starting QB (the guy who you spent months getting used to) goes down? Henne is a much different QB than Pennington, Penny didn't have the zip, the strength, the ability to thread the needle and put the ball in spots like Henne does. These WR's and TE's are all in the process of building chemistry with him, they are seeing a totally diiferent QB than they've seen for the past 2 years (3 in Ginn's case), is it any wonder that Bess is dropping balls and Fasano hasn't been reliable this year?

But.....lets just focus on Ginn and his family

One star

 

Haha - same team on this one. I've been one of Ginn's biggest supporters on this board all year. Just saying his hands haven't exactly been spectacular. He'll turn it around and hopefully start having a bigger impact as the year goes on.

My point was just that in Ginn's case almost everyone of the passes in his direction have been a pass of 15+ yards - and the completion percentage of these passes is much lower than balls thrown under 15 yards - so the targets to catches stat isn't fair to compare between he and Bess.

 

Let's face it, Ted Ginn is a TERRIBLE WR
A couple more games like last night, and I will be the first to upgrade him to Mediocre, which is followed by serviceable, Pretty Good and finally Yeah Baby!!!!
I think his contributions last night were paramount into us being able to call on him more.
He was still the second best WR on our roster last night, but he caught a couple tough-key passes, and his returns gave us nice field position a couple of times.

 

What was the 6th target?

I certainly only saw 5 in the game I watched.

 

Ginn is averaging 10.9 yards per reception this year (14.1 last year). That figure includes YAC, of course. I would be amazed if passes where he is the target average 20 or even 15 yards.

 

have to give henne credit for continuing to trust ginn and throw to him. if i'm a QB and a guy has a propensity to drop crucial balls, i would think it would be hard to continually go back to the guy. kudos to henne for keeping ted's mind in the right place.

ginn's average YPC was around 8.0, which was lower than Bess, Hartline, and even Ricky, but that tells me we're doing some confidence-building for teddy.

hey, whatever it takes. he's catching balls and moving chains, good start.

 

Which, in a round about way is what I was trying to say.
All the talk about using him just to stretch the field is bad business.
This was indeed a good sign IMO.

 

I know; woulda, coulda, shoulda! My real point though is that its a team sport and in both of those games we (the team) gave up the lead and Ted doesn't play defense so to put the blame on his back is, imho, not only unfair but also a deflection from the truth of the matter that both losses should be laid at the feet of our defense. At least JP finally stepped up to the plate and admitted as much after Thursday's game, to his credit.

Imho knowing that Henne and Ted go way back its a reflection of a knowledge between two people that we, as fans, know little or nothing about. IPOF I will be really surprised ro see them try to move Ted once he shows that connection on the field of play. If Ted can again become a 60+ % catch receiver, as he did in 08, my bet is that he'll be back in that area before the season ends. We shall see.

BTW I wasn't blaming Henne for that bad throw once I saw why but, at the same time, I( sure didn't want Ted blamed for not catching the thing.

 

His four catches, the ball thrown behind him earlier in the game and then the pass I believe right before Bess's big conversion on the rollout. Ginn was open but Henne badly missed him.

 

This one I knew, I must've missed the other bad miss then. Or at least not known it was intended for Ginn.

 

Old news tell me something i dont know

 

Agree, we've had enough already and any more does nothing. i'm waiting for him to really turn things around for himself so we can take this thing in a another direction.

 

and every1 said with a better strong armed QB Ginn would be better...hmmm I love Henne he's our guy, but Penni doesnt look so bad now does he haters

 

You know, I complained about this very thing early on. Last year, penny was our saviour, taking us thru uncharted waters since Dan. He was a god but then this year, with the same exact start as last, he was all of a sudden an overnight bum. sometimes, I think some folks memory is shorter than my dick!!

 

People need to realize that wide receivers and quarterbacks do not have 100% chemistry right away... It took time for guys like Manning & Wayne, Rivers & Jackson, and what not to be on the same page... it doesn't happen overnight. The page is starting to turn for Ginn and Henne... kind of like it did last week for Bess and Henne. I guess we'll have to wait and see though...

Regardless, this is not Madden football where there isn't a chemistry attribute for different players.

 

Good point re Ginn -- I think Penny was better for him than almost any QB short of Manning would be. But last year Penny took us as far as he was ever going to take us. Henne has more upside.

 

No, a QB and a smart/good receiver can have chemistry right away. Manning is showing that this very year. That's why he was on the cover of SI last week despite a bunch of new receivers. Ginn isn't a good receiver right now, period.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1162442/index.htm?eref=mySI

 

That is awesome collage. Is it available in black and white for purchase

 

reggie wayne and clark are his two main targets. and have the most yards on that team.

 

Geez, are we still arguing this mess?
OK, then why does he avg 10.9 ypc? Take aways his lonf TD catch and the rest avg <9 ypc. That doesn't exactly suggest what you are claiming. You are still comparing Ginn to Bess [and Cam for that matter] in an attempt to make Ginn look better than what he is. Let's face some facts, since you want these comparisons. Bess is 14th in the league at being targeted and Cam leads the league in completion %.

 

I don't think chemistry is an issue here. There's been enough "chemistry", just too many dropsies!!

 

not to derail this thread, but that would be an awesome feature.

as far as henne and [wide receiver] goes I think they're all catching up.

 

These staggering numbers paint an ugly truth and it aint pretty. For the last two seasons the Ginn supporters said it was Pennington's fault Ginn didn't succeed, now that Henne is in charge the man drops balls and the last game alone he averaged a whopping 8 yards per catch....Eight frickin yards,,,I thought he was suppose to stretch the field ??? Then now the Ginn supporters are using smoke and mirrors by claiming we want Ginn and the dolphins to fail, HOG WASH!!!! Every person who suits up should be able to prove to the team and the fans his worth, and I can tell Ginn was not worth a number one pick. I tell you what Ginn supporters do you really want the threads to stop ? The answer is simple your boy needs to step up and help this team to win consistantly not just once or twice per year.
By the way Ginn is ranked 99th amoung receivers in the Nfl in receptions, but ranks 3rd in drops and this means nothing ?
That's our number one receiver, not number two or three which by way rank better.

 

I support Ginn, I challenge you to find where I ever said such a thing.

Perhaps you shouldn't lump everyone who supports Ginn together, because I've said on more than one occasion that Pennington could help Ginn's progression as a WR more than many other QBs.

 

I argued that Pennington limited Ginn's potential. I also said that Pennington made Ginn run better routes.

If you really believe that it doesn't take time to adjust from Pennington throwing you the ball to Henne throwing you the ball, then you're sorely mistaken.

That being said, we need a true number one. Ginn isn't that...but that doesn't mean that he can't be a very effective receiver.
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Give me a break.. We're talking about Chad Henne and his receivers... not Peyton Manning and his receivers. I am pretty sure that you put any receiver in this league with Peyton Manning and he'll get the most out of them.

 

Because he has dropped most of the passes thrown to him. Most of his catches have been on really short passes. He hasn't done what he has supposed to this year, hence the low ypc.

 

I believe what he was saying is that because Ginn runs those longer routes a higher percentage of his total plays than do the other WRs, it makes it more likley he will have a worse completion % because its a harder task.

I have not been happy with Ginn this year other than kickoffs, but i do think the role he plays is one that fewer people can preform effectively compared to the ones Bess and Cam play. Thats why Ginn still sees the field despite how undependable hes been.

 

But running long routes would only affect his numbers if Henne was throwing it to him deep often...which isn't happening, for obvious reasons.

Ginn has bad numbers because he is a bad receiver.

 

He wouldn't have to throw it to him often. He would have to theow it at him once deep in the beginning of the game, and Ginn drops it, and then he doesn't see a ball the rest of the game. That's NEVER happened. LOL. Ginn doesn't get many short throws his way. He doesn't get many throws in general right now, which is why the drops on the deeper balls have really been killer.
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True but the fact remains that he hasn't been thrown to long very many times as it is. Not enough to make a huge amount of difference. When we do, it's dropped. besides, the low acg doesn't speak well for many yac either.

 

He very well may run loger routes than the others but he runs the short ones as well. I was making a point when it was said "that nearly every one of Ginn's passes thrown to him are 15+ yds". Ginn has completed only 2 passes of 20+ yds yet he avgs <11. W/O the 2 long ones, it is <9. That suggests to me that most of his balls are in the 6-7 yd range. Most od his catches have been those short quick outs/hooks etc. and the ypc includes any yacs as well. But, with all things aside, i do not know why we don't use him downfield at least 2-3 even 4 times per game. Sooner or later, he's liable to come around and shag a few of those. Won't happen every game but at least it will stretch the Ds out.

 

Ginn's hands were never a question before this season. I know he has made some critical drops, but he has also made some critical catches and plays (kickoff returns for TD's). Henne and Ginn need time to get on the same page. It doesn't happen after one or five games. It takes longer than that. I believe that Ginn will get the drops corrected and work on his technique. Ginn is the same player that played a big role in Miami winning the division last season. Let's not bury the guy just yet.

 

agreeed. for whatever reason (fear of his speed i guess) his most effective route is the 6 or 7 yard stop or out or hook. i would like to see more diversity in his route options but we seem to keep his role limited. he's pretty money on those routes so its good to see them back. he should get four or five of those a game, mixed in with some posts and flys. although i would kill to see him run some drags and slants

 

There is nothing more I'd rather see than Ted getting back on track. He's done it before and still should and it just baffles the bull**** out of me why not. It is truly amazing to me how many yds we've rushed for with 8-9 in the box steadily and knowing full well what was coming. Try and imagine if we were running Ted down the field, daring the D. But unless we don't do that several times per game. then the D will not respect the threat and will just use single coverage on him and thua allowing the other safety to move up closer.