What to do with Ted Ginn Jr.

Teach him to catch.....

 

But the answer to your questions isn't talent based. If Brees can see over the line @ 6feet then so can White. Unless Whites eye sit far lower on his head than Brees

This is sad but when I first read your reply I though you were saying that Pat White wasn't 'white' and Brees was . You DEFINITELY DID NOT SAY THAT! Sorry about that.

 

Ok - then it is only fair we renegotiate Donald Thomas and Davone Bess' contract so that they earn starter's salary, right?

Contracts go both ways - if a guy should have to give up then a LOT of other guys probably deserve more.

 

He made big plays against the Jets twice.

 

I am sick of the idea that keeping him stops us from getting better. It's not like there is a one speed guy per team rule. If a conditional 2nd day pick doesn't help us more than Ginn playing on the team there is no reason to get rid of him. Also, see the last three Jet games in reference to the bolded.

 

It was Ginn's catch that helped us beat the Jets. It was Ginn's two kick off returns that helped us beat the Jets.

As long as Ginn helps Miami win games he should be a Dolphin

 

Jay Fiedler once ran for a TD on the last play of the game to beat the Raiders...so, yeah

 

disagree. i think the recipe for disaster has already been served in Ronnie being lost for the year. Thankfully we're playing a defense that is pretty soft in general and especially against the run. When that happens the game plan is usually to overcompensate to cover up your deficiency. I think the Panthers will look at the Miami like a wounded animal and stack the box to make Miami beat them through the air. Ricky and Lex arent good enough to be able to run effectively against a stacked box. How do you get the Panthers out of the box? Ted Ginn. It surely isnt Hartline or Camarillo that will do it. It doesnt matter if Ginn catches the passes or not but he has to be targeted to keep the safeties at bay. Otherwise we get destroyed IMO

 

For one it is three plays.

Well if you count all of the first downs he caught against Indy, it would be around 10 plays.

If you want to make Ginn the scape goat of the season, more power to you. There is just no need to make him sound worse than he is.

 

Tim Brown took till his 5th season to become a good receiver.

I can also point out mostly useless facts as well.

 

Thats horse****. the defensive meltdowns are responsible for almost every loss. any game we scored more than 20 points cant be laid at the feet of any offensive player. face it, although offensive players are easier targets its our defense that sucks this year not our offense. We're the 13th ranked offense in the NFL. The offense is not the place to find blame for our losing ways

 

And I can name over a dozen big plays he has made over his career.

Yes - his hands have been bad this year - but there is reason to believe they will get better as they were fine his first two years.

He is our worst player? The guy that single-handedly won us the second Jets game, contributed significantly to beating them the first time and had 11 catches and 7 first downs against Indy?

We are 28th in scoring defense, 27th in pass defense and 19th in total defense - but Ginn is our biggest problem?

 

Honestly the momentum was already shifted in the Saints game after the Bess's fumble and the STUPID F#$#%@@ time out by Sparano.

 

The problem with using Ginn as scapegoat claiming he "lost us games" is you have to assume a couple things; The first being that someone else on this roster is A) Even open in those situations and B) Catches those passes.

Another problem I have with the situation is that we really don't have anyone else. It's not as if we have some super-stud sitting on the bench who can stretch the field and make plays. Hell, the fact Patrick Turner can't even get on the field speaks volumes.

It'd be one thing if the Dolphins had serious depth at WR and Ginn was playing when he shouldn't, but that's not the case here. So to point to him as "the worst player on the team" or brand him the goat of a couple games we lost is pointless.

 

But you can only afford to target him so many times....we will only have so many plays to waste, going down field.

Ted Ginn stretching the defense is an over rated concept.

 

Return guys of his caliber are hard to Come by. He lacks quite a bit as a number one reviver though but just his presence on the field forces the defence to keep one of their safties back and that in itself helps the running game as well as the other receivers. I would love to see him take over punt returns as well. Bess has been horrible returning punts (when he catches them).

We all have watched Ginn drop passes that he should have caught. I still would like to see them go to him deep more often than they currently are. He's going to catch his share if they do and it will force defenses to keep their safeties out of the box.

Ideally I would like to see us pick up a legitimate number one reciever and keep Ginn for kick/punt returns and let him develop as a Number 2.

 

Ummm......yeah.

 

You're doing a damn fine job of it too

 

thats why i said five to eight. five if he's dropping easy catches (one per qtr approx) and eight if you catch him on a good night

when ronnie, sparano, henne all talk about the importance of stretching the field or getting people out of the box i dont think you can say its over rated

 

Except in your analogy no one would say the next guy who struck out cost your team the game. Because the guy before him failed as well. That's why football and baseball are TEAM games.

 

You, alright, you. I learned it by watching you!

 

I'm ok with a handful of 'deep" throws his way.....other than going deep, throw to someone else.

And yes stretching the field is important.....but it takes more than speed. You need to command respect.

 

So how does having Ronnie in the game keep the Panthers from stacking the box? If anything it makes our running threat less effective w/ Brown's abscence and that lets the Panthers play their safeties back to reduce the chance of giving up the big play.

Ronnie being out would give the Panthers less of a reason to stack the box in my eyes than if he was in the game.

What am I missing in your argument? Or where is the breakdown in my logic?

 

Actually got the ball back, however the referee screwed him. Which would of gathered momentum right back towards the Dolphins.

 

So Bess' mistakes are forgiven but Ginn's aren't? Other guys screwed up bigtime but theirs don't count because Ginn did as well?

There is no logic there.

 

if we had ronnie i think we would have been ablke to run regardless of them stacking the box. their run defense is very poor. with ronnie out we can probably still run on them but only if they play us honest. ricky and lex arent going to break huge runs against a stacked box IM0(could be wrong) My feeling here is carolina will sell out to stop the run which they should be able to do if they stack the box (dont think they will if they dont) and rely on the talent in their secondary to shut down our below average receiving corps

not saying they wouldnt stack the box vs ronnie just saying they will do so against ricky also

 

not just bess's but the entire defense's, the entire oline's, the coaches, etc. Ginn is the fall guy for all that is wrong

 

Whichever guy is Ginn looks to be the right answer.

 

I'm not defending Ted Ginn the WR. I'm defending that Ted Ginn wasn't the reason we lost those games. Were those big, momentum-changing plays? Yes. However, I always find it ridiculous when fans try and justify a player losing a game by himself when there is another hundred plays or so that everyone else is involved in and makes.

When you have a team game, no player loses the game, or wins the game. It just doesn't happen. Do they contribute? Do they take a large part in contributing? Yes. But they don't just cost the team a loss all by himself.

Here is what I don't understand. Before the trade deadline, in the preseason, all we heard from fans and writers was how we needed a jolt on STs, from a big KR/PR. We have one! Get over this whole he's the #9 pick and you expect more, he makes too much money, etc.

Utilize him for his talents--he's an extraordinary ST's returner. He's shown that this year already. Put him on PR's for gosh sakes! Then utilize him as a WR like we have been. Allow him to run deep post patterns, 9 routes, etc. He's never going to be "the guy" but he can be like one of the other guys. Davone Bess has made many plays that've hurt, Hartline has dropped balls, Ronnie Brown has fumbled at the goaline, we've thrown interceptions. This team has made plenty of errors other than Ted Ginn that have hurt our chances to win games. His drops shouldn't be held as any different from any player that has hurt our team.

 

Just to confirm - your argument is that dropped passes are worse than fumbles?

There is no way to control what happens after the ball is dropped - Ginn got unlucky in that his was returned for a TD - Bess' just squirted out and was recovered.

Are you trying to argue that Bess made less of an error by FUMBLING than Ginn by dropping a pass because of a fluke play where the defense returns the dropped pass for a TD?

So by that logic - a QB that throws an interception but the defender is tackled is making a better play than a QB that gets hit, fumbles and has that fumble returned for a TD?

 

I don't think anyone is saying that Ginn shouldn't be playing better. The question is whether the Dolphins are better with him on or off the team. I say on. I say that even if he doesn't work out his drop issues. (which I expect him too) As soon as we get a better deep threat, great play him and put Ginn on ST teams only. Until that time, it's silly to say cut him, or trade him for a 6th etc...

 

He's not the worst WR on the team, though. He's the most inconsistent IMO. So, if that's your evaluating tool--I accept that.

For me, Ted Ginn does a few other things--he opens up the WR Reverse, he stretches the field--which Greg Camarillo doesn't. Greg is my favorite WR, he's the most dependable WR, but he is what he is--not a guy that makes defenses worry.

BTW, if our defense holds Indy it makes that catch null and void. Again, picking one play out of a game, because it's the last and saying that's the reason we lost is completely ridiculous.

 

Camarillo cannot get open on that play.

In fact he is the receiver who has the best chance of getting open on that play.

 

I also know for a FACT that if the defense didn't completely suck against the Colts we're 5-4 right now

 

there are ususally 20 plays per game that you can say that about in a loss. If Ronnie doesnt shake that last defender? If the safety doesnt trip going after the Tight End? Etc. What I'm saying is the defense is almost entirely responsible for our losing record. The offense can carry some of the blame but the general rule of thumb is anytime you score more than 21 points the offense has done its job and anytime you give up more than 21 the defense has failed to do its job. the offense has scored over 20 points in almost every game and the defense has collapsed in almost evry 4th qtr. its very difficult to focus on one player in the offense over the defense. i can understand that its easier to do since his mistakes are more obvious than a blown ccoverage or a missed tackle or a blow assignment but i think you really have to go to the side of the ball that is crushing us. How does an offfensive player get the blame in a game where the offense held the ball for 45 minutes and still lost and where the defense was giving up 70 yds on single plays?

 

There is no possible chance Camarillo would have been open or even half that far down the field. That is what you aren't getting - is that Ginn provides something no one else on our roster provides - the ability to get open deep.

Sure - it is easy to argue that Cam and Bess have better hands - they also catch 10 yard passes all day. Ginn mostly gets balls that are 20 yards down the field and are not NEARLY as easy to catch.

I have never seen Cam run under a ball. Or Bess. Ginn is the only player on our roster that has the ability to go deep.

 

Despite one of the worst performances in defense history, they weren't the one's that dropped a jump ball while being very closely defended and arguably interfered with in the end zone.

yea, that is logic.

 

I would be arguing over the plethora of plays instead of just pointing to one guy. Especially if Yermiah Bell was being held on that play

 

Ginns drop was not comparable to a routine pop-up. Standing still, wide open in the end zone and dropping a pass maybe.

Football, like baseball, is a team game. You don't ever pin a loss on one guy. It isn't golf or tennis.

I will not defend the talent of Ted Ginn. I will not say he's had a great season receiving. But I can't blame him and only him for the Dolphins 4-5 record. It's silly.