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Ted Ginn regains starting job from Hartline

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ATVZ400, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    The only thing keeping Ginn on this team is cap hit......if the fins can find someone to dump him on in the off season, they will likely take pretty much anything offered.

    He's worth about a 6th round pick......maybe a 5th at best.
     
  2. Pennington's Rocket Arm

    Pennington's Rocket Arm New Member

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    cut 'em.
     
  3. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    so we wont cut him now because of the cap hit? so if we cant trade him he will be kept on our roster for 2010?
     
  4. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Maybe, if there's no way around it....I have a feeling the FO would just like to get him and his baby softness off this team, but the cap hit might make it hard to just cut him. However if we do add more talent and he's just in the way, like Wilford, then maybe they just cut him anyway.

    I'm not sure anyone will offer us anything for him...they might just wait until he's cut so they don't have to over pay for him like we do.
     
  5. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    so we've spent 1200 posts debating nothing :tantrum: in other words he's not going anywhere right now, he's probably not going anywhere next year, so we might as well kick back and see if he does anything since we're stuck with him good or bad :tongue2:
     
  6. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    yep wide open.....0 catches 0 yards

    I am waiting for the next game or so I don't think our opponents will even line anyone up to cover him.......why waste the defender. Henne won't throw it to him and if he did Ginn would just drop it anyway. Then there is always the hidden speaker of footsteps......see it seems when Ginn hears them he curls into a Fetal position or makes a bee line for the sidelines
     
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  7. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    The reason the coaches are starting him over others is because they are gonna get rid of him at the end of the year.

    In order to do so they need to showcase his talents or lack thereof as much as possible or we will get squat for him.........basically Cam wasted a #1 pick:up:
     
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  8. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    doesnt work that way but nice try :lol: maybe week 15 but not week 9 and if he's good enough to trade he's good enough to keep since i'm not even sure we have anyone else that would command a draft pick

    also say what you want but our choices were brady quinn or ted ginn. check FH, I wanted Willis but we were never going to get him. it was either Ginn or Quinn and Ginn is hall of fame material compared to quinn
     
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  9. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    You still need to upgrade your jersey :shifty:
     
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  10. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I have to say Adam..... you absolutely CRACK ME UP!!!!

    You look adversity in the eye and keep an even keel.... :up:

    Nothing but love for you brother.....of course, as these debates go on, that could change at the drop of a hat :shifty:
     
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  11. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    you do realize i'm not a fan of Ginn per se. I'm just forced to defend him against unreasonable attacks :shifty: I'm kind of a public defender for Dolphins I feel are being unfairly targeted. The three players I like on this team are Merling, Vontae and Lex Hilliard for some reason. Actually I like more players than just those three but those are my favorites. Henne is very very close. he probably joins next year
     
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  12. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Neither of those words are accurate....
     
  13. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    now look here :tantrum: wait what.......dammit, everyone's being civil all of a sudden :angry: nothing but love for you too bro :lol: who knows maybe we'll be on the same page with the next dolphin outcast.... then again maybe not :shifty:
     
  14. 2k5

    2k5 I miss Ted Ginn Jr.

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    You always say you're not a "hater", yet you continuously post these hate-filled statements with unnecessary adjectives. It's getting old.
     
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  15. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    au contraire
     
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  16. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Fine, I decided I'm a hater now......is that better?

    If not, don't read it
     
  17. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    So you're surrendering?
     
  18. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    what is there to debate? he's played poorly this year? no debate there. if we're not debating his playing time this year or him being cut next year we dont have anything to debate other than will he improve. I think he will, you dont. not much of a debate
     
  19. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    So what?.....we did kinda wear it out but we had fun;]

    Certainly nothing personal ,adam. I assure you...
     
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  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Who wants Quinn right now? Henne looks light years better. Guess Ginn was the better pick...LOL.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
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  21. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    no patrick willis was. or darelle revis :up:
     
  22. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Out of curiosity, why would a coach start a player just to showcase him as trade bait when we are in the middle of the season trying to win games to get into the playoffs. It really makes zero sense to me.
     
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  23. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    agreed. this season isnt over.
     
  24. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I think the talent of speed that he possesses has hindered his progress, somewhat. I know that may sound a bit ridiculous but I don't see how he's learned to get open. He's still relying on speed. I think the issue with Ginn is he doesn't know when to speed cut and when to sharp cut. There's a difference and there are specific routes that those two are required for and I don't think he's realized it yet. Of course, I could be wrong here and they are asking him to speed cut, which I can understand but I also question how often he can get away with that.

    This is his sixth year playing WR I believe (3 at OSU, 3rd here) and he hasn't figured it out yet. We all knew he was raw coming out but how much has he developed? I'm not sure to be honest. He's worked hard but not hard enough I would say because his routes don't look much different than his rookie year and I think his concentration has regressed for whatever reason.
     
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  25. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    I think you keep that one play in your pocket just waiting for a shot..... :lol:
     
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  26. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I almost cried seeing Willis go to SF....
     
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  27. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    Ginn is not a receiver. He's a very good kick returner. But he's not a receiver. receivers have to catch. I don't care how fast he is if he can't catch. I maintain that the best use for him is as a returner and specialist. Bring him in for reverses and counters, throw to him a couple of times a game to keep the enemy from cheating. But you can't depend on him. And every time they trust him he drops an important ball and it costs us.

    Learn already please.
     
  28. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I still cry hard and often....Two things SICK knows nothing about :shifty:


    J/K sick :ffic:

    Or am I :shifty:
    Yes I am :yes:
    Or am I :shifty:
    -
    -
    EDIT: Actually. to be accurate, I cried when Willis was still on the board but we elected to go after a very gimpy-raw WR :pity:
     
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  29. Gitrdone

    Gitrdone New Member

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    He might not have been on the stat sheet with Catches. But he helped open up the run game whether you want to admit it or not. Those deep passes forced the defense to not stack the box. As for him not catching the one pass, it was a tough catch, he should have had it. But there is only one way to get out of a funk, and thats to play thru it. Cam and Ginn should be our starting WR's atm.
     
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  30. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    That's an interesting, well thought out take on the situation. But I think that it's more likely that his limitations, both physical and mental, have come to light and it's pretty obvious that he's getting playing time, albeit reduced, because of a lack of viable options. After 6 years at the position he either cannot or will not learn how to run routes and catch the ball properly regardless of his speed.

    I'd really like to see to what extent he's being double teamed and has the opposing D's best CB on him when he's in the game. It's tough to tell given the camera angles, especially the double teaming aspect.

    Dropping balls is one thing, but it's the timid play and, quite frankly, how God awful he looks catching the ball so often- swiping at it like a cat playing with a chew toy and his arms crossing scissor like after attempting to make a catch. And the alligator arms...

    And the WR coach- I would have to think the guy is going nuts looking at the game film and Ginn's technique- as you mentioned rounding off routes, a confounding lack of ability to catch with his hands, running out of bounds instead of generating YAC. And if he's not going nuts he should be replaced- either that or the FO understands that Ginn is basically hopeless in terms of correcting his bad habits/traits and they're resigned to the likelihood that we're stuck with Ginn for 2 more years- and in that case maybe the've determined that Ginn's failings aren't Dorrell's fault.

    But nonetheless he's under contract and is a dangerous KO returner and a viable #3 WR and deep threat. So there you have it. I wish him the best, for us and for him, but if all he brings to the table is speed I really wonder how we would be with Anthony Armstrong or Todd Lowber playing that deep threat role.
     
  31. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I think the number one corner is often on Ginn when he's out there because of his speed. He can stretch the field, as we all know.

    You're right, he does have alligator arms. I have to wonder if this is a eyesight issue with him or if he's simply looking to make the defender miss before he traps the ball - it seems that way to me. I think he's used to making defenders miss in the return game all these years that he's ended up playing like a returner. I know you watch college football so I'm guessing you've watched the Hurricanes Travis Benjamin. Benjamin runs a 4.24 forty at the wide receiver spot and he plays like it. He's done return duties for a while now - going back to HS IIRC - so he hasn't learned to play like a true WR yet. He traps the ball and immediately looks to make defenders miss. He runs east, west and even in reverse but often doesn't go or fall forward and that's an issue. He's brought that over from the return duties to the WR spot, two completely different things.

    I think they are pleased that he's working hard but I don't think they are pleased with his progress and for good reason IMO. He hasn't made much. As for Dorrell, what he's done is up in the air IMO. Is he the same guy who helped Davone Bess become a quality player or is he the one who's responsible for Ginn's play on the field? I think it's a bit of both, moreso the latter though.

    Lowber's worse than Ginn IMO. Armstrong is meh.
     
  32. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Not a No. 1, but should be a bigger threat.

    He still needs to be more of a threat, because he is fundamentally unsound as a Wideout. Right now, it is still not guaranteed that he will catch the ball. And like someone mentioned before, he is STILL relying on his speed, and still cheats on routes. That said he still requires attention deep in the secondary, which, as someone mentioned, opens the field up for the rest of the offense.
     
  33. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    :knucks: same here. kinda gotta wait till carolina is over now. need new ammunition
     
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  34. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    :huh:
     
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  35. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i remember doing a search and you were definitely in the pat willis camp along with me and a decent amount of others (cant do them anymore since anything past 2009 is deleted apparently). pretty sure ozzy was there also. its funny but there was one or two people who wanted revis and one or two okoye, maybe ten to twenty who wanted willis and the rest quinn or ginn.

    even though i wanted willis i defended the pick after the draft since we needed the speed at receiver. still think it'll work out but we'll see

    edit: have to say though that many if not all of the people who wanted someone other than Quinn migrated here.seems a pretty smart bunch
     
  36. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    its funny but i started thinking it was his eyesight too this year due to the fact he seems to mistime all of his jumps. but after thinking about it, I just cant believe it is, since I have to think the coaching staff must have wondered that also
     
  37. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    I still think it's a chemistry issue with Henne. I mean, Henne throws those suckers fast... He puts some heat on the ball. I think Ginn is still adjusting. I think Bess has finally adjusted to Henne's velocity on the ball this past weekend. I guess we'll see for sure in the future, but that's what my guess is.

    I understand what guys like alen are saying with his routes, but I think they are looking too deeply into it (no offense either). I think it's simply Ginn and Henne don't have the chemistry that Bess and Camarillo do with him quite yet. It doesn't make sense to me that he's been dropping stuff like crazy as of late when the past two years he was pretty sure handed.
     
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  38. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    Agreed - his routes are bad but he is still open ALL THE TIME. It just doesn't matter because he drops passes ALL THE TIME.

    He is an easy scapegoat this season as his drops have been in pivotal moments. Drops have never been a problem in the past so there is reason to think this is correctable.

    The main argument people have against Ginn is that he drops the ball, yet he has shown decent hands in the past. It is frustrating to see people go to such great lengths to bash his hands when they have only been bad this season.
     
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  39. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    If you don't mind me asking, how do you do the multi quote thing where the individual quotes come up in green? I never figured that one out.

    - Good to hear that the #1 corner is on Ginn when "Ginn is in"- how often does his speed draw double coverage as well? It wouldn't surprise me if less than most people think.

    - I appreciate the thought, but I watch only so much college football. I also have a tendency to watch games with specific players in mind, and I end up missing some good stuff because I don't watch the whole games. Brandon Lafell has been particularly frustrating. Same thing with Arrellious Benn. What I've seen I like, but there ain't that much to see with Juice and Zook running the show. I really know nothing about Travis Benjamin- in the UM/GT game I was looking for Demaryius Thomas, in the UNC/UM game I really wasn't paying much attention until the 4th qtr and all the craziness- that and looking for Greg Little of UNC.

    Ginn- I don't think it's an eyesight issue, I think that it's his ears- he hears the footsteps coming. Hey, I'd be scared, too, with an NFL Safety breathing down my neck, but I'm not being compensated for overcoming that fear. This clip shows Demaryius Thomas doing a great job of looking in the ball:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr1YuGhi1D4"]YouTube- Demaryius Thomas TD[/ame]

    Nice iso on the play at :30- I'm curious as to your opinion of DT, he's growing on me.

    Re: Lowber and Armstrong, an unwritten part of that thought proccess is the $5mil/yr spent on Ginn and the opportunity cost of how that money could have been used otherwise, but I guess that's neither here nor there. But I still wonder- Armstrong's hands were subpar if I recall correctly. Lowber- I remember something about him making boner plays left and right in that Cowboys HBO training camp show. It's just really difficult for me to understand not just Ginn's drops, but how anyone could look that bad in the proccess of dropping passes.

    I read a book called "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell. In one of the chapters regarding interpersonal relationships the subject of contempt came up, and Gladwell explained how in his research he found it to be the single most distructive element in a relationship. I think that Ginn's play- underachieving and timid- has breeded contempt among Dolphins fans and maybe even his teammates and coaching staff. It's not often that you'll see a former player like Kuechenberg call out Ginn as a "coward"- not that I'm a fan of that comment or his ones a couple of years ago. People venting on a website is one thing, but Kooch shouldn't have done that imo. But Ginn is breeding contempt not only by screwing up but by HOW he screws up- running scared and sometimes looking incompetent trying to catch the ball- at $5,000,000 a year nonetheless. His playing time, already reduced, is being saved by a lack of any other Dolphins receiver having legitimate deep speed. His roster spot is being saved by the cap hit that we would take if he were dumped. And in the meantime with each game that goes by with him failing to produce at WR the contempt just keeps on growing.
     
  40. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hit the "MULTI QUOTE button for as many as you want to include BUT, on the final included quote, hit the QUOTE button instead :up:
     
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