Phins come clean: You desperately need top wideout

BP:

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/120490

 

I call em like I see em. And as I said before.....I hope he proves me wrong.

 

Why haven't the Dolphins acquired a top receiver acquired before now? General Manager Jeff Ireland has said management didn't want to give the money or compensation needed to go after a front-line receiver. A Dolphins executive told NFL people last spring that Miami has a higher regard for its receivers than others do, and wants to see if Ted Ginn Jr. blossoms. Associates cite Bill Parcells' belief he can build an elite team without a star receiver.


well considering he won super bowls with these guys Parcells has a point

Wide Receivers XXV

Stephen Baker
Mark Ingram
Troy Kyles
Lionel Manuel
Stacy Robinson
Odessa Turner

Wide Receivers XXI

Bobby Johnson
Lionel Manuel
Phil McConkey
Solomon Miller
Stacy Robinson
Vince Warren


Parcells is only missing his linebackers and a TE to replicate the type of team he envisions. Still, wouldnt mind a playmaker receiver. Simply not that high on Parcells wish list

 

Bill needs to get off his @ss and get a deal done, perfect example was that pass that could of won the game in the end zone to ginn.

Not saying a top wr would of cought it but there was much better chance with a star wr.

 

Scoring through the air is more important these days....

As bad as we need LB's, Safeties,, NT or whatever.......a play making WR that can get into the end zone would go a lot further in helping us win games.

If we're going to contend, we need to score more points in the passing game.

 

20 years ago and 16 years ago. The game has changed.

 

very well said

 

parcells is two linebackers away from having a defense that will average less than 14 points given up per game. Couple that with a running game that is top three and the formula is still valid. Trust me I would love Dez Bryant of Gillyard but a playmaking OLB and a vacuum ILB are more important

 

let's hope this happens on our team with Henne.

 

a no.1 is important as hell too Adam.

Its frustrating to see all these young WRs do so well and then there's Ginn who is really testing my patience.

 

Why, do you get 8 points for a passing TD?

Not necccessarily, it will get the Dolphins on ESPN though, we actually are very efficient in the Red Zone this year.

The problem with the sanctified "#1 Wr" stuff is they are too easily neutralized in our attack, with a ball control offense double teams are rarely thrown into to, we more than likely could use a Te who can make plays though.

A Chris Cooley type would be money in our offense.

 

No but without the ability to score more points and score them quickly, you put yourself in a situation where you're matching Manning and other good QB's with FG vs TD's.

We don't have an aerial red zone threat and it shows...it has for awhile now.

You could see last week how badly this offense is starving for a play maker......we could have easily rung up 50+ on them.

I don't agree.........with our running game we leave a lot of opportunities on the field by not having a play maker in the passing game. The running game gives us advantages that we can't take advantage of.

 

Not so sure about that. Is Terrell Owens helping Buffalo win games? How about Calvin Johnson? How about Andre Johnson? How about the man of the hour Braylon Edwards himself?

Having a guy with that kind of talent is definitely a good thing, maybe even really good, but WRs are NEVER as important as people like to think. SO much of their success depends on other people that you can never put them at the top of the list before addressing every other position soundly. Just ask Matt Millen how having top tier WR talents helps a franchise. And that's more than anectdotal evidence, there's a reason for failure. Without a line to block the QB can't let the route develop or even get the ball out at all much less accurately. Without a QB who can deliver when properly protected, the best routes in the world don't matter. You get the point.

Adam's right. We've got one more round of "meat and potatoes" drafting before we can spend lavishly on a luxury WR. And hey, it's not like they're not taking chances. Two high to mid round picks isn't exactly ignoring the position. And pro bowl WRs come out of the mid rounds more often than early. Happens all the time. Why? Becuase that position presents a tough transition from college to pro. Everyone at this level is so fast, that only WRs who can run precise routes and QBs who can anticipate succeed. That's why the WRs who succeed are those who have a knack for timing, space, etc.

Bottom line, we need more vertical play out of our offense, but it's not any one player's fault. It's partly play calling. Partly Ginn. Partly Henne. And partly luck. Once one of those clicks, the others will fall in line, and we fans can stop coveting every punk thug picked up by other teams just because we want to see something change for change's sake.

 

6 points for a TD
1 point for a PAT
3 for a FG

seems to be the same to me.

If anything the rule where you can't jam a WR past 5 yards of the LOS hinders WRers more which is probably why Parcells favors them as he does. because WRers can't be jammed it's harder to tell who really wants to play because IIRC WRers aren't really jammed all that much at the college football level & that's a major transition from the CF level to the pro game.

 

A top reciever would have caught it, thats what there paid to do...not powt on the sidelines when they go 1 for 4 cause no one has belief in them anymore

 

Owens looks spent for the most part and Edwards so far is a one hit wonder.....but you put Calvin Johnson on this team, with this run the ball down your throat offense and it would be as good an offense as any in the league within a year. Johnson lights it up regardless of circumstance.....with the play fake opportunities this offense provides, it would be fun to watch. Henne would have it made.......

But that's my point.....we have all those things now and a monster running game to take the pressure off the passing game. THIS is the perfect situation right here, right now.....this offense is absolutely starving for a play maker. The running game is screaming for it.

The quote above is the same kind of thinking that led to us using more than a dozen QB's since Marino. Again...I can't stress enough how badly this offense needs to address that position

And you're not gonna see much improvement in that area until we get a legitimate, consistent, play making threat at the WR position.

Of all the needs on the team, WR would make the most impact on the scoreboard

 

ya but a passing game scores you points faster......peyton manning sure as hell wasnt handing off the ball to score in 14 seconds, 12 seconds, and 20 seconds against us.......sure they are worth the same......but scoring more obviously wins you ball games

 

You're talking about arguably the greatest quarterback to play the game though... he could make you and I look like All-Pro receivers...

 

True, we need a Franchise WR
however
1) not at any price, better to draft one
2) more important is for Henne to quickly get on the same page with the WR's already in the stable

 

A rising tide lifts all boats, like a Great QB elevates our WRs and our passing game. How about we worry about getting Henne up to speed before we start damning our WR corps. Jay Cutler has 7 TDs and 1 int since his first game, and would you take Chicago's WR corps over ours?

 

I'll trade Devin Hester for Ginn and throw in anybody else on our WR unit to sweeten the deal.

Hester, while a raw WR, doesn't play scared and tentatively.....he's a play maker. And ten times the return man Ginn ever dreamed of being.

 

Miami doesn't need another slot receiver though. He may be Chicago's #1 but he is really another Bess.

 

He's what Bess could be with speed and the agility to make ppl miss......oh and not to mention world class field vision.

 

I agree. But I watched Parcells build his Giants teams and even Don Shula build his Super Bowl teams (God I'm old ) What he is looking to do is build a Ravens 2000 type of defense. Once you have that you only need to excel at either running or passing to have a shot at the Super Bowl. Its why that even though WR is a more glaring weakness, the reality is that game changing linebackers are more important to what we're trying to build. There are some good linebackers available next year. You think our defense is good now. Wait till you see the defense thats coming. I'm talking 3 and outs all day long. We need linebackers, both outside and inside.

Having said that, I agree that we need a WR. I hope we get one in FA. But looking at the OLBs and ILBs available in the first three rounds I'm personally leaning to adding some these guys: Sean Witherspoon, Sergio Kindle, Rolando McClain, Eric Norwood, Jerry Hughes, Ricky Sapp, George Selvie, Micah Johnson, Brandon Spikes, Sean Lee

I'm personally hoping we go first three rounds all linebacker

 

Dude we been there, done that, didn't work.....

We had a top 5 defense and the league's leading rusher and missed the playoffs.....

Why? Our passing game sucked.....we couldn't score enough.

We need to start concentrating on how to be more explosive, put more points on the board and have the quick strike capability when needed. Rather than trying to build a team that gives up 10 points a game and wins on field goals.

 

But we didnt have a QB. I think we have the QB we need to hit the big play when it presents itself. The Super Bowl Giants teams didnt have any playmakers but they had an effective passing game because they had a run heavy offense that would hurt you if you cheated. What made that passing game work wasnt the receivers but the running game and QB. We have that now IMO. We didnt have that under Pornstache

Also there is a huge difference between a #5 defense and a #1. I know it doesnt seem like much when you view it as numbers but the difference on the field is huge

 

That Giants team doesn't win or even play in the SB that year without Burress.....a big play threat WR.

After losing him, the Giants sank back to the rest of the pack.....now the Giants are back and looking good. Why? Because they have WR's making big plays.

 

Talking about the 85 and 90 teams. Thats the team we're building. We're not building the Parcells Cowboys, Jets or Patriots teams. We're building the Parcells Giants team here. Its all about defense and running and if we get a playmaking receiver great but Parcells is about linebackers and we're getting some new ones next year that will take us from top ten defense to number one or two defense. That kind of defense and we're probably 4-0 right now. If we had a playmaking receiver I think we're 2-2 or 3-1. We still would have lost to either the Chargers or Falcons or maybe both

 

Idk........I just don't think that's the direction you want to go in this era. The passing game is too evolved.

Another thing is when you play good defenses.....not having a play maker makes it much harder on the QB to put points on the board.

I'd love to see some new LB talent as well.....I just think that a big, physical play maker makes more of a diff on the score board.

 

We have a running game that can run on anybody. We eat up clock and yards. Where a playmaker's value is elevated is when you dont have that type of dominating running game or you dont have a dominating defense. The Colts have to have receivers. They could never move the ball consistentley if they had to rely on Addai. We have a couple of holes in our defense which is why a playmaking recceiver would help us greatly. But plug up those holes, which can be done in one offseason and the need for a receiver drops.

Just to be clear, I am not opposed to adding a receiver. It would certainly make us more dangerous on offense. I'm not going to cry if we get Dez Bryant or Gillyard. I just dont think we're going to pass on Norwood or Hughes or Witherspoon to get one. Linebackers are more important IMO to receivers on a Parcells team

 

No, I mean we were worse at passing in the first four games of this season than we were last year. Hopefully we will get better.

That just doesn't square with the facts. Pennington averaged more per completion last year than he did in his entire career. Of course he didn't have a strong arm, but he never did. His first torn rotator cuff was in 2004.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PennCh01.htm

 

That's quite a goal -- the Ravens 2000 defense was not just the best that year, it may have been the best in the whole history of the NFL. Wouldn't it be easier to just get a receiver?

 

Well this where we disagree.....my feelings are that that we leave a lot of big play and scoring opportunities on the field, that this running game is providing us. A play maker's value is actually more, when he's put in a situation where he's not the only threat. For me......having this running games makes a big play WR even more of a must have.

I agree......and I think it can be said that LB's are just plain crucial to a team running the 3-4, Parcells teams or not. I'm all about getting some better LB's next off season....but I just feel that WR is the position that will make the most impact on the score board.

Personally, I'd look for a WR in FA and draft the LB's?

Do we have a deal? lol

 

Dont think so. I'm banking on Chris Clemons solving our FS problem. If we add one playmaker ILB and one playmaker OLB I think we have that defense. Linebackers can come in and play right away. Receivers might take three years to develop. There are alot of OLBs we can get in the first round that would fit the bill. There are a handful of ILBs we can get in the 2nd round. If we get a receiver do they dominate from game 1 or do they need a season or two to learn how to run routes and get off jams? I think its easier going the Ravens route at this stage of the team

 

My feelings exactly. That's what I think the braintrust will do The question to me is how we adress the TE and NT position. I'm thinking a high second day pick might go to NT and maybe we get another FA TE next year.

 

Two words: Free agency

 

Dang, ya beat me too it...lol

 

True,

Just goes to show how much mgmt screwed up with our #2 pick on Pat White when WR is such a great need

 

yea and the two he dropped in the end zone would have made us 2 and 2 right now instead of 1-3. Must be the QB's fault

 

They did draft Hartline, which seems like a pretty good idea right now.