Everyone's opinions are different. If you don't like him, you don't. Its no big deal. By no means am I trying to change anyone's minds. Just voicing my own. It's virtually impossible to compare QBs during college due to different years, supporting casts and opponents. Using hindsight, as bad as it is, is the only way I see doing it and then project how I believe Ryan will fare. When I rate Ryan it's all about his ability and what he does on the field. I didn't want to compare him to other QBs. It's all conjecture which may seem a whole lot of BS when it's all said and done. It really is just another side of the coin which should at least be considered. Even the Dolphins FO are seriously considering it so lets sit back and watch.
Actually my biggest beef wasn't your comparisons to Harrington and Grossman but suggesting he could turn out to be a Ryan Leaf, because even if he plays his worst I don't think he would ever turn into him, that's how bad Leaf was.
LOL, yeah I got my answer alright and I have to admit I didn't expect that. But like I said before while I wanted to see where everyones opinion on Ryan is, the most important thing is what Tuna thinks, because if he passes on Ryan I am comfortable and if he takes Ryan I am just as comfortable - mostly because of Tuna's strong track record when it comes to QB's.
Not really, I would expect Ryan to hold a clip board for a year. At the same time see if he can compete with Beck. Beck is already a year ahead and 28years old i believe (thus more mature). The whole theory behind Ryan is to grab a franchise QB we haven't had for ages. The draft pick does not have to contribute straight away because a QB is picked to build a future around. Now before you all get fired up - I know you don't believe he is franchise material but in my opinion he is. Some people who study his play, myself included, believe he is that type of player. The theory all falls apart if you believe he is only a decent player. So it all comes down to how good a QB you think he is.
It would be stupid to draft Matt Ryan at 1. I rather have Jake Long than Ryan. Btw Chris Long will be the pick.
Really? Weiss said that? hmmmm that's very interesting. Weiss is under Parcells coaching tree i think and may have turned Parcells in that direction. I see glimpses of Brady but Quinn? thats a major head scratcher. While watching a BC game an announcer was saying how Ryan received a call from Farve one day and Ryan was like a happy kid. If the Dolphins do draft him David Lee will pull him back on the Farve like throws like he did with Romo when he first came in and try to throw like Farve.
Nice points. I, for the record, think Ryan is going to be a solid NFL QB. However, I don't see anything that screams "franchise" or "can't miss" or "sure thing" from him. The major problem with drafting him at #1 overall is that, even if he's not destined to be a "franchise" QB, he will still become the #1 QB on the team at some point. No doubt in my mind that if you pay someone the big bucks, eventually you're going to have to throw him in the drivers seat to see what happens. It honestly won't matter if he beats out Beck or McCown or not... With the money he would be being paid he would be the starter sooner than later. At #1 overall, you need to pick the safest, surest bet to help improve the team. I just don't see Ryan being that pick. As an aside, I have to say it's refreshing to be able to have this discussion without all the "Beck sucks!" and "Ryan blows!" input...
Thanks dude. Completely understand. QB is the hardest position to project into the next level so there is a higher risk involved with it. Who knows? I could be wrong and you can all say I told you so. But for the time being I stand by what I see and like what I see in Ryan. If the Dolphins pick Ryan you would ultimately see a Rivers/Brees situation San Diego had when they got Rivers. That's a good situation to be in. The top pick will be given the drivers seat at some point and the other can be backing up or used to trade. I believe it is in the best interest of the franchise. Especially when we do not know what we have in Beck at this point.
I think you acknowledged all of our point when you said, "we dont know what we have in Beck at this point." Therefore, There is no reason to waste the #1 pick and all the money and risk that comes with it on another huge uncertainty. We have far too many holes to fill on this team to take a QB at 1, not to mention that Matt Ryan is certainly not the Best Player Available in this draft IMO and most other peoples.
I believe there is uncertainty with Beck as well as Ryan. If we can all agree that there is uncertainty with Beck then there is an inherent risk involved. There is a chance he does not pan out this year. To hedge the investment in Beck, Ryan can step in early. I like the idea of having Ryan there to groom for the future and at the same time be an insurance policy for this year. Because I believe Ryan is worthy of the top pick and that Beck is a good QB, Beck would not be a wasted pick because he can be a great back up or can be traded. It's a business decision and not based on loyalty to a player. Ryan can also not pan out but that can also be said about other draftees. Besides, I from what i see of Ryan, it's definitely a risk worth taking. If we don't draft Ryan what's plan B? McNown, Henne, Flacco? I'm not comfortable with either. A QB in next year's draft? Next year is a weak QB class. To me drafting Ryan makes sense....it's just a scenario we might consider.
I do not see J Beck as a risk. First - He is already a Miami Dolphin at a considerable cheaper cost than Ryan will be. Second - I have yet to see where Ryan will be a better qb in this league then Beck. Yes Ryan is younger but if you take into account that Beck was on a 1or 2 year religious sabbatical the age difference means little. Third - The amount of money invested in Beck is minimal in comparasin to the 60 to 80 million that Ryan is going to rake in.. I just do not see how it would benefit this team to invest this kind of money into a qb that has many of the experts refusing to annoint a franchise qb tag next to his name.. if compared to Beck imo his Ryans skills are lacking.. That is not to say that Ryan will be a bust or that he will not be a successful qb in the NFL. But for the money he will cost this team as the overall #1 pick he just isn't worth that cost! Marino1983
Wow such an overwhelming no. I chose no also, I don't even think he is the best, second, or possibly even third best QB in this draft. Even after that I think there are guys who have a lot more potential. Then again I'm not a scout.
So it all comes back to the original question. Is Matt Ryan worth the 1st pick and all the risks that the money comes with it? Some say yes others say no. It's all a matter of opinion so we can all agree to disagree and watch it all unfold. If i'm wrong, i'll admit it. It's no big deal as i don't pretend to be a draft expert or anything. I'm just presenting an alternative view.
Heres another point of view for you to look at the question with... Option 1: I think a lot people that want Ryan want the stacked offense with a ton of weapons (Cle, Indy, SD, comes to mind) and a solid crop of good QBs. Option 2: However, a team can be successful with a decent offense with a strong running game and a few weapons and a servicable QB. IMO we are much closer to Option 2. Now obviously the biggest factor in winning games IMO is Defense. A team with an Option 2 offense and a strong Defense can win championships (ask Eli). I believe that Miami's best future lies in becoming a strong defensive team with a power running game (R & R) and a few long bomb weapons (ginn). I think it's also in our best interest to take C Long. JT is 34 years old! Some people use him as the reason to not draft Long but come on people, how much longer is JT really going to be effective? Even if we keep him and he does have a decent year, why not let Long prepare to fill his shoes? I may have strayed a little off topic but my point is this,"Matt Ryan will not bring us closer to winning games at this point in our development then Chris (or even Jake) Long will." Taking Ryan would be a luxury pick that we do not have. Taking another player speeds up our development much more.
one of the best posts i have read on this subject, and you are dead on, the way for the dolphins to win is to use the florida weather as a weapon, you get yourself a strong running game with ricky and ronnie get a good oline to help beck, build a great defense and pound on the opposing teams i dont think the dolphins are suited for a indy type offense they are more geared to a bear or giant type offense and defense
Yes, but we have tried option 2 for the last 10 years and it didn't work. Insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results (Einstein Quote). Even with our defense in it's prime straight after Marino retired we weren't good enough. It's time to go back to option 1. In today's parity in the NFL and the new rules (QB protection, def pass interference rules) the league now favours option 1 a lot more than when Marino was around. Besides, can we not build an OL and defense with rounds 2-7? As far as the roster is now JT is still a fin. Unless he gets traded in the next few weeks then ok...i see a great reason to get C Long. But we have JT and JP, so right now, C Long is the luxury pick. If JT stays 1 more season then why not get a OLB in next years draft. There is always a nice pass rushing OLB at pick 5-15 every year like Ware, Manny Lawson, Gholston, and Merriman who can jump in straight away and doesn't need grooming. Chances are we could pick 5-10 next year and not #1. I would prefer to get Ryan now, then build our team with drafts over the next 2 years even though Ryan will not bring us closer to winning now than C Long but I look at this with a longer term perspective. I don't think that this debate will ever end...
Seeing as we already have a young QB that is unproven and played in horrible conditions last year (no OL, no RB, 1 legit WR), we can all agree that he deserves another shot. We also have McCown who is still relatively young and could still be productive. Why add another QB now when we continue to grow old on D? Your theory of drafting a player on D next year has a ton of holes in it. Your depending on us keeping JT whos 34 years old. So if we did that then the picks we would recieve for him next year would diminish quite a bit, and if he retires next year we recieve no compensation and are left with a huge hole. Your also depending on there being a player better then Chris or Jake Long falling to us in next years draft. Bottom line is we need to build our team on both sides of the ball. Drafting Ryan puts all our eggs in one basket. Lets spread our chances out and take another impact position that we dont already have 2 potential starters at. Taking Ryan is a huge gamble of wasting money, the #1 pick and the money and #2 pick we spent on Beck last year.
I don't see how Ryan will be our pick. He's only getting the hype cause there's no other QB's in this draft who stand out. In most other drafts, Ryan would struggle to be a first round pick. Fix our D, and get our o-line straightened out, and I think that Beck will show us that he's the real deal.
This is a very good point that most are forgetting. JT, while still a top level OE, is at the age where erosion of his skills will start. The problem with this franchise since JJ left is that the FO has never drafted to replace the spokes in the wheel as they age. Wanny, Saban, Cam...all wanted to 'retool' instead of use the draft to replace our aging stars with new ones. I love JT and wish he'd play 10 more years at this level, but it ain't gonna happen... This draft, as has been the Fins luck, doesn't hold the franchise type QB that we so desperately have been seeking since the day the music died...(Danny retired). There isn't a Peyton, Eli, or Palmer out there. But more importantly damaging to this team than getting a franchise type QB has been us missing on a franchise type QB wasting away ZT and JT glory yrs and spending what would have otherwise been depth picks to replace some of our older stars and having competent backups that we have not had for several years. Like most fans on this board, we're saying that there are enough questions about Ryan not being that QB to warrant going a different direction. I don't know that Beck is the answer any more than anyone else does yet, but we know that spending another high draft pick not replacing talent on the rest of the team is what got us into this spot in the first place. It's not Tunalands fault, they just got here, but they have to live with this mess that has been ignored so long. Our main weaknesses of this team are not at QB, they are in the area of not replenishing talent over a long period of time...we need to fix this now and QB just isn't the #1 area of need right now. We had this discussion last year about Ginn vs Quinn. The fact is that CamRan made a decision to upgrade another area that had been ignored by Wanny, et al and take the WR instead of the darling QB. But rectifying that decision by getting a QB in the second round. That move is still under the microscope because not only are they both only 1 season into the NFL, but they mis-used Beck to boot. At this point, the best move they can make is to take Chris Long at #1, since most draftniks, football experts, etc have him as the surest bet to be a star at this level and the least risk of the #1 overall draft position....
